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1st message | this message only posted: 27 Feb 2010 20:43
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Graham Roberts kindly sent this link to some excellent pictures of pre-grouping track details. They are from the John J Smith collection marketed by the Bluebell Railway Museum:

http://www.bluebell-railway-museum.co.uk/archive/photos/jjs/g-negs.htm

Here is a selection of links from that page (the reference to a "Swing Nose Crossover" should of course be "Switch Diamond"):

083-083 Trap Points and Signal, unknown location

084-084 Catch Points, Automatic Protecting South Croydon Junction from Down Oxted Line
 
085-085 Trap Points on Interlaced Track, Single Line

086-086 Diamond Double Slip, Polegate East, Set from Eastbourne
 
087-087 Similar to 86, Distant
 
088-088 Closeup of Swing Nose Crossover

089-089 Swing Nose Crossover, Windmill Bridge Junction set Up Line to London Bridge
 
090-090 Norwood Fork Junction Down Local facing points and locking bar, set for West Croydon or Selhurst direction, straight ahead route is to East Croydon. Main lines at lower level on left
 
091-091 Points, Fouling Bar and part of North Signalbox, Victoria

092-092 Steam Loco at Victoria and EFB Sign
 
093-093 Impedance Bonds in Tunnel
 
094-094 Track Circuit to Rail Connection
 
095-095 Tunnel Mouth and interlaced Track and temporary Narrow Gauge Line

096-096 Same as GN095 but with just interlaced standard gauge track
 
097-097 Tunnel Mouth, double track

Many thanks Graham.

regards,

Martin.

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2nd message | this message only posted: 27 Feb 2010 21:30
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from:
John Lewis
Croydon, United Kingdom

 

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What is the point of the lump of wood at the end of the catch point switch rail here, please:

084-084 Catch Points, Automatic Protecting South Croydon Junction from Down Oxted Line

It is interesting to see the footbridge of Selsdon Road station in the distance.


085-085 Trap Points on Interlaced Track, Single Line.

Could this be near Mitcham on the W. Croydon - Wimbledon line? It is now part of Tramlink and still has interlaced track.


090-090 Norwood Fork Junction. Note the OHL for the LBSCR type electric trains.

All fascinating!

John
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3rd message | this message only posted: 28 Feb 2010 09:43
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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I'm puzzled by this one:

085-085 Trap Points on Interlaced Track, Single Line

If this is on a gradient, surely runaways need to be protected in both direction - why not put the trap point after the interlaced tracks merge into single line?

Is it related to...

095-095 Tunnel Mouth and interlaced Track and temporary Narrow Gauge Line

...by any chance?





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4th message | this message only posted: 28 Feb 2010 10:02
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Paul Boyd wrote: I'm puzzled by this one:

085-085 Trap Points on Interlaced Track, Single Line

If this is on a gradient, surely runaways need to be protected in both direction
Hi Paul,

Catch points are provided on up gradients to prevent wagons running away backwards if a coupling breaks. If couplings break going down-hill (unlikely when slack), the wagons can't go anywhere with the rest of the train in front of them.

These catch points are sprung to the open position and closed by the action of up-going wheels passing over them. To allow trains to run down the gradient, a separate set of gauntletted rails is provided, by-passing the catch points.

In either case, the next signalman will be alerted to the broken train and still-occupied section by the lack of a tail lamp.

regards,

Martin.

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5th message | this message only posted: 2 Mar 2010 18:16
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin

I've just sketched this out and it makes sense now - what an unusual formation though.  Isn't it?

Cheers

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6th message | this message only posted: 2 Mar 2010 21:20
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from:
allanferguson
Fife, United Kingdom

 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
These catch points are sprung to the open position and closed by the action of up-going wheels passing over them. To allow trains to run down the gradient, a separate set of gauntletted rails is provided, by-passing the catch points.



I'm  also  slightly  puzzled  by  this.  With  the  gauntleted  track  there  will  be  a  need  for  at  least  one  worked  switch.  Surely  it  would  have  been  cheaper  to  simply  work  the  catch  points  and  save  the  expense  of  all  the  extra  track.  Tho'  there's  usually  some  inscrutable  reason  for  even  the  oddest  features  of  the  pre - grouping  railway!

 

Allan  Ferguson

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7th message | this message only posted: 2 Mar 2010 21:41
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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allanferguson wrote:I'm also slightly puzzled by this. With the gauntleted track there will be a need for at least one worked switch. Surely it would have been cheaper to simply work the catch points and save the expense of all the extra track.Hi Allan,

A lot of these apparently odd track arrangements can be explained by the 350-yard limit on the length of a rodding run. This arrangement was almost certainly cheaper than building and staffing an additional signal box.

regards,

Martin.

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8th message | this message only posted: 2 Mar 2010 22:09
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from:
John Lewis
Croydon, United Kingdom

 

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Martin wrote:

> A lot of these apparently odd track arrangements can be explained by the 350-yard limit on the length of a rodding run. This arrangement was almost certainly cheaper than building and staffing an additional signal box.

If it was a low speed railway, possibly freight only, could the switches at both ends be sprung, tramway style?
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9th message | this message only posted: 2 Mar 2010 22:14
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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John Lewis wrote: If it was a low speed railway, possibly freight only, could the switches at both ends be sprung, tramway style?Hi John,

The lower one might be.

If the top one was sprung, a wagon breaking away beyond it would be diverted clear of the catch points.

regards,

Martin.

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10th message | this message only posted: 2 Mar 2010 22:15
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from:
allanferguson
Fife, United Kingdom

 

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John Lewis wrote: If it was a low speed railway, possibly freight only, could the switches at both ends be sprung, tramway style?

A  spring  point  at  the  uphill  end  would  do  the  business  for  "proper"  trains,  but  it  would  also  divert  runaways  past  the  catch  points.  The downhill  end  could  have  points  sprung  towards  the  catch point  road.

Allan  Ferguson

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