Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 8 Apr 2010 15:53 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi All, I am trying to obtain the layout plans of Birmingham New Street Station circa 1938 (or would be happy with plans between say 1934 to 1950 since, I believe the layout remained fairly constant throughout that period except for bomb damage and subsequent repairs). I am seriously considering this as a project modelled in P4 fine scale prototypical. I have already contacted Jim Smith-Wright whom you may know from P4newstreet.com. Jim has modelled a very fine example of this station in it’s current modern state (electrification and all), and as I said to him, I really admire his attention to detail on the model. Jim stated that he new little of the older station (prior to the 1964 re-construction) but has kindly offered some drawings and information on certain parts of the station that have remained, relatively speaking, as was. However, my main stumbling block is I have no track or building layout plans for the period mentioned above. I would therefore, be most grateful if anyone can help with, or perhaps point me in the direction of, such information. I’m sure there must be something hidden away in some archive someplace or other. Best regards to all. Brian Nicholls.  |
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posted: 8 Apr 2010 16:07 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Brian, "Britain's New Railway", O. S. Nock, Ian Allan, 1966, has "before-and-after" track plans of the New Street 1960s rebuilding (fold-out opposite p.152). I don't know how similar the "before" plan would be to your 1938 period, probably little changed. I could scan it for you? I think this would fall within copyright fair dealing if you are not intending to use it commercially. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 8 Apr 2010 16:29 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Martin, Thanks for your speedy response. As a matter of fact, Jim Smith-Wright did mention an O. S. Noch book to me, but could not remember which of his books it was. I would be most grateful for a scanned copy of the plan you suggest and, it will not be used by me or anyone else in any commercial way whatsoever. Incidentally if I dare ask, I would appreciate it if you could scan at high resolution as this will help to eliminate the usual thickening of lines and any break-up of pixels if and when enlarged. Needless to say I will still have to get my vernier callipers out and scale + redraw. But again thank you Martin, looking forward to receiving scanned file. Best regards. Brian Nicholls. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Wynne wrote: Hi Brian, |
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posted: 8 Apr 2010 18:06 from: Jim Guthrie
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Brian Nicholls wrote: However, my main stumbling block is I have no track or building layout plans for the period mentioned above.Brian, I've just had a quick dig around and found this enticing section of a 1950 plan http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbns_str1310a.htm Now, if you could find the original "lnwrbns_str1310" drawing then you might have something to work from at a decent size. Maybe contacting the web site owners might give you some indicators of what you can get. There are literally hundreds of pictures of the station on this site. BTW, I proposed to my late wife on this station many years ago pre-1964 , just before boarding the Glasgow sleeper. It was a dark dump of a place.  Jim. |
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posted: 8 Apr 2010 19:54 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Jim, Many thanks for your response. As it turns out I had spotted the Warwickshire Railway item you mention, however I believe (but cannot confirm) the originator had copied the drawing from a book, which had the small drawing on part of a page. I downloaded the web page and found the "lnwrbns_str1310" drawing to be too small, although somewhat helpful in some respects, to be able to scale accurately from it. But, thanks for the thought Jim, your on the right track. As you say Birmingham New Street was always noted as a dirty dark station, but at least it had a great deal of character in it’s day. Sadly it has lost it’s character since the modifications in the mid 1960s. This is why I want to try to bring back it’s, albeit dirty and dark, character. Best regards. Brian Nicholls. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Guthrie wrote: Brian Nicholls wrote:However, my main stumbling block is I have no track or building layout plans for the period mentioned above.Brian, |
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posted: 8 Apr 2010 21:24 from: Alan Turner
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Look at "An Historical Survey of Selected LMS Stations" Vol 2 - OPC Alan |
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posted: 8 Apr 2010 21:51 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Alan, Thank you for your response. That does indeed seem a most likely place to the information I seek. Many thanks for the tip. Best regards. Brian Nicholls. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alan Turner wrote: Look at "An Historical Survey of Selected LMS Stations" Vol 2 - OPC |
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posted: 10 Apr 2010 21:05 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Jim, Just to keep you in the picture, and to let you know I’m still alive.  Regarding the Birmingham New Street Railway Station circa 1938, I had a response from the Jim Guthrie wrote:
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posted: 14 Apr 2010 22:04 from: Jamie92208 click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Hi Brian, I've just found this thread. I would stro gly suggest that you get in touch with Bob Essery he has a vast collection of plans, many of which are now at the Midland Railway Study centre. There may well ahve been plans published in either LMS Record or Midland record as well as photos of the interior. If you don't have his contact details send me a message and I'll pass it on to him. The other source is the OS maps for the area. West Midlands may well have an online mapping engine that has historic overlays like lancashire has, otherwise the Brimingham Cenral library will be a good place to start. Jamie Guest |
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posted: 15 Apr 2010 14:40 from: Brian Nicholls
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[size=Hi Jamie,] [size=Many thanks for the message and the info therein.] [size= ] [size=I have sent a PM to you regarding Bob Essery.] [size= ] [size=Thanks again.] [size=Best regards.] [size=Brian Nicholls.] --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jamie92208 wrote: Hi Brian, I've just found this thread. I would stro gly suggest that you get in touch with Bob Essery he has a vast collection of plans, many of which are now at the Midland Railway Study centre. There may well ahve been plans published in either LMS Record or Midland record as well as photos of the interior. If you don't have his contact details send me a message and I'll pass it on to him. |
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posted: 15 Apr 2010 17:26 from: Templot User
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Posted by email by Ian Jewell ________________________ Wild Swan published a three part (so far) work on New Street, by Richard Foster. (Full title, Birmingham New Street, The Story of a Great Station, including Curzon Street.) Part 2, 1860 to 1923, and part 3, 1923 to 1947 both have track plans, not apparently altered much between 1920 and 1947, and part 2 also has a layout of platform level buildngs. Both lavishly illustrated. Part 2 published in 1990, ISBN 0 9068707907 Part 3 pub. 1997 ISBN 1 984103 37 2 regards Ian |
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posted: 15 Apr 2010 19:46 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Ian, Thank you for your response, boy are you guys helpful.  As strange as it may seem, I have just ordered the very same three books from ‘British Railway Books’ this very afternoon. I had fortunately heard about them from another source only yesterday via an email. I do so thank you for thinking about my problem. As things are working out, you Templot people are giving me absolutely loads of info from time to time. Unfortunately, there is still a long way to go as far as gathering information and analysing it when I get it. Needless to say it will also be a long haul before any results can be seen regarding a layout. However, we must persevere and plod on to complete the task. Kindest regards. Brian Nicholls. Templot User wrote: Posted by email by Ian Jewell |
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posted: 21 Apr 2010 18:29 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi all, Just an update on the Birmingham New Street layout plan saga. First I would like to say thanks to the following people: Templot User wrote: Posted by email by Ian Jewell |
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| Attachment: attach_779_1100_YNRM_Birmingham_Area_Layout_Plans.pdf 648 | |||
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posted: 21 Apr 2010 18:49 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi all, Oops, sorry about previous message. Just an update on the Birmingham New Street layout plan saga. First I would like to say thanks to the following people, Martin Wynne, Jim Guthrie, Alan Turner, Jamie92208 and Templot User - Ian You all have contributed some very useful information which has allowed me to start serious planning of the above mentioned layout. In particular Jim Guthrie who was kind enough to send me a copy of a layout from one of his books, this has been a real help. I have to date, managed to buy, and are in my hands, the following books which were suggested by the people mentioned above, 1. An Historical Survey of Selected LMS Stations: Layouts and Illustrations Volume One 2. Birmingham New Street. Background & Beginnings by Richard Foster 3. Birmingham New Street. Expansion & Improvement by Richard Foster 4. Birmingham New Street. LMS Days by Richard Foster I have managed to locate and sent off for, but it is not yet in my hands, An Historical Survey of Selected LMS Stations: Layouts and Illustrations Volume Two I am still on the hunt for the following books, a). Britain's New Railway by O S Nock [size=Ian Allen] b). New Street Remembered by Smith, D.J. Publisher:- Barbryn, 1984 c). Birmingham Railways In Old Photographs by Mike Hitches, (1992) Sutton d). Roads And Rails Of Birmingham 1900-1939 by Coxon, R.T (1979) [size=Ian Allen] Also if anyone can help as to the whereabouts of photographs of Birmingham New Street station that I may either buy or borrow, as I will probably need a lot of these for detail purposes. Now for the information, I have been in contact with York NRM regarding layout plans and have received a list of all such plans for the whole of the Birmingham area which York NRM have in their archives. I have assembled, and attached, a PDF copy of the list for future use by any member. Finally, Andy Croxton of York NRM informs me that plans can be copied up to A0 size if required, although their order form pricing only mentions up to A1 size. Best regards to all. Brian Nicholls. |
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| Attachment: attach_782_1100_YNRM_Birmingham_Area_Layout_Plans.pdf 736 | |||
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posted: 21 Apr 2010 23:10 from: Bill_Lobb
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Brian Nicholls wrote: Hi all,Try http://www.abebooks.co.uk. Its very seldom that I can';t find anything I am after there. Bill |
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posted: 22 Apr 2010 15:46 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Bill, Many thanks for the info, will certainly give the place a try. best regards. Brian Nicholls. Bill_Lobb wrote:
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posted: 24 May 2013 17:21 from: Martin Wynne
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Network Rail have recently published large scale zoomable track plans and drawings of Birmingham New Street in connection with the recent partial opening of the new station: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/virtualarchive/new-street/ These and others can be zoomed in close and dragged on the above link (not here). Click the full-screen icon (bottom right) first: d6ea107a-0f84-4d77-8e6b-1f3958dd1efe.jpg  76676e28-c131-4099-bc76-1049f405ad7e.jpg  Martin. |
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posted: 24 May 2013 19:05 from: Brian Nicholls
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Hi Martin, Many thanks for the information on Birmingham New Street purchasable from Network Rail. The interesting map (plan of track layout), is that of the one not dated, and although it is marked BR LMSR, it looks almost the same layout as I have for my 1921 LNWR plan, which is what I am working too. There are just a few subtle changes, which occurred about 1945, just after world war 2, to fully repair and replace damage caused during the war. There is another plan (layout) dated 1882, which fortunately, I already have a similar copy of this from another source. The difference between the Network Rail Pan and my copy is, that it looks as if the Network Rail is a reproduced, tidied up drawing copy, where my plan is of the original drawing, which shows the properties that were purchased to enable the extension to be built. The 1882 plan was of the proposed new extension, for what became known as ‘the Midland’ side of the station, the work on the extension began in 1882 and was completed in 1885 when that side of the station officially opened for passengers. There were as the plan shows a lot more sidings on the south-western side of the station, these were known as the ‘fish sidings’, for obvious reason. However, the large number of sidings only lasted up until the turn of the century, when they were reduced from 8 roads to only 5 roads, which is how it remained until the major modifications in 1964. Thanks again Martin, All the best. Brian Nicholls. |
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