Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 08:39 from: Raymond
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Anyone out there have a London Road/Fourtrack RSU in good condition they want to sell? Regards Raymond -- Raymond Walley http://www.raymondwalley.com "I know that you believe that you understand what you think I said but, I am not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant". (Robert McCloskey) --- |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 16:04 from: Jim Guthrie
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Raymond wrote: Anyone out there have a London Road/Fourtrack RSU in good condition they want to sell?Raymond, In case you are interested, new ones now seem to be available. I quote from a message on the 7mm list a short while ago. "Often people are enquiring about RSU's and I now know that a gentleman called Peter from Swanage Models is now producing new ones..They are based on the Dick Ganderton one and the one I saw at Reading show in May looked very good..Peter's number is 01929 424650 ..Hope this is of some use to people........Jim" I have a Ganderton Graskop RSU and it is very good. Jim. |
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| Last edited on 14 Aug 2007 16:04 by Jim Guthrie |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 20:16 from: Paul Boyd
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Jim quoted:Often people are enquiring about RSUs....This presumably implies there's still a demand, and I'm assuming from Raymond's question that London Road and Fourtrack have stopped producing theirs. I know the Exactoscale one was stopped a while ago - in fact Bernard told me shortly before his death that he would stop doing them. So - is this down to a very low demand for an expensive and bulky item to stock, or just that no-one really wants the hassle of selling a very lumpy bit of kit? Is there still a reasonably healthy demand? I wouldn't be without an RSU now and I really don't know how I managed without. It would be nice for other people to be able to have the benefit! |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 20:42 from: Jim Guthrie
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Paul Boyd wrote: So - is this down to a very low demand for an expensive and bulky item to stock, or just that no-one really wants the hassle of selling a very lumpy bit of kit? Is there still a reasonably healthy demand?Paul. I believe that most of the suppliers of RSUs in the UK are/were small businesses or cottage industries. I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but under present EU law for scrap reclamation, makers of domestic electrical equipment now have to be certificated in some way. That costs a lot of money and renders the supplying of items like RSUs completely unprofitable for the levels of turnover and profit involved. I could probably dig up quotes from other lists since I remember the matter being discussed in detail a few months ago, with all the relevant EU detail. And because we are the UK, we will apply the rules to the nth degree. Jim. |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 20:46 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: So - is this down to a very low demand for an expensive and bulky item to stock, or just that no-one really wants the hassle of selling a very lumpy bit of kit? Is there still a reasonably healthy demand?Hi Paul, I think it is all down to the latest consumer electrical and recycling regulations in the EU. Anyone manufacturing mains electrical gear has to jump through some expensive hoops nowadays. But I think these units are still available commercially in the jewellery trade -- probably at much higher prices than modellers would pay. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 20:56 from: Jim Guthrie
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Jim Guthrie wrote: I could probably dig up quotes from other lists since I remember the matter being discussed in detail a few months ago, with all the relevant EU detail. And because we are the UK, we will apply the rules to the nth degree.Following on to my own message, I found a good message by Richard McLeish of Kalgarin Models in the 7mm list. I don't think Richard will object to me quoting his letter :- -------------------------------000000000------------------------- Moving on, I have today been doing a lot of digging on the RSU and motor issue. A lot of people were helpful, some less so, the end result is utter despair at the desperate situation the so-called government has allowed the legislators to get us into. With regard to RSU's, the main problem is one of the CE compliance required for electrical goods, involving the payment of large sums of money (read thousands) for testing in order to gain approval. The WEEE requirements involve the sum of a registration fee of £30 for a non-VAT registered trader, though the returns situation is not quite so clearcut, costwise. What IS clear is that the directive specifically includes "Soldering Equipment". The directive also specifically includes "Electric Trains and Car Racing Sets," items within scope under Toys and Leisure. What is not laid down is a definition of an electric train. Though an official was good enough to admit it was generally aimed at RTR, there is a catch. Sell a kit, no problem. Sell it with a motor included, different story - there is even one school of thought that the built result should be returned and sent for CE approval! OK, sell the motor in a separate transaction, who is to say it is not for use in an entirely non-train exercise? What WAS made clear was that a kitbuilt loco sold to a customer as ready-to-run IS an electric train for the purposes of the directive, ergo Messrs. P****l, M***s etc. better be bloody careful. Where the vendors of used equipment stand is anyone's guess, but somewhere, some jobsworth will get in on the act one day. I spoke with a helpful man from a motor manufacturer whose company website states that electric motors per se are not subject to WEEE as far as they are concerned. Different story once installed in the piece of equipment they are intended to power, but then only sometimes. The same website also says transformers and relays are exempt, amongst other things. Most important part of an RSU, the transformer..... I spoke with a contractor whose business is handling WEEE under licence for various companies, his opinion was that electric motors sold expressly for putting in model train kits were within the scope of the regulations. Of course, the fees for recycling these would be rather more than the profits most of us gain from selling the blasted things in the first place. And now the really silly bit came to light. Finally, I got hold of someone at the Environment Agency: Government Person: "Look at our Guidelines and decide for yourself" Yours Truly: "You cannot tell me whether any item is within the scope of the directive or not?" GP: "No" YT: "And if I choose, and get it wrong, who decides I am wrong?" GP: "We do" YT: "And then?" GP: "You will probably be prosecuted, and if so, probably fined" YT: "Who decides whether to prosecute?" GP: "We do" You couldn't make it up. Invent a law, don't tell anyone what it is, then fine them anyway. The same GP was going to email me the Guidelines - I'm still waiting. I spoke further with several other worthies, the general consensus is that, to quote one Trading Standards bod "We're not out looking for the likes of you" whilst the average vendor of a few Mashimas is just ignoring it on a similar basis. Mashimas, incidentally, comply with the relevant standards, the question is whether or not the shop which sells them needs to register and cough up. "An unenforceable law" was one description from a huge UK-based internet seller of all sorts of electric motors, who was "still thinking about it". -----------------------------------------00000----------------------------------- Richard covers RSUs and motors and, as is mentioned in his message, the rules might apply to people who build model and supply locomotives with motors in them. Jim. |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 22:14 from: Raymond
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Dear Jim, Thanks for that I will investigate. I had heard rumours of a new one but had no contact name or number. Regards Raymond |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 22:25 from: Paul Boyd
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I think there might be some misconceptions floating about here. Firstly, in law the manufacturer is not responsible for complying to the WEEE regulations - it's the producer. As the General Manager of an electronics sub-contract manufacturing company, I have checked into this! The producer is basically the person who's product it is, so if we manufacture a widget for Customer X, then Customer X is legally responsible for disposal, not us. In terms of cottage industries, the manufacturer and producer are the same person in practise, but it is as a producer that the responsibility lies. I didn't know the exact cost for registering, but the £30 Jim mentions sounds vaguely familiar. Because, as a subby, we don't produce our own product, we can blithely ignore all this :-) CE Marking doesn't have to cost thousands of pounds, but mains equipment does have to be CE marked. http://www.dti.gov.uk/innovation/strd/cemark/page11646.html is a good a place as any to start, and the basic principle is "CE marking is a declaration by the manufacturer that the product meets all the appropriate provisions of the relevant legislation implementing certain European Directives." It isn't an approval process - it's a declaration process. "I declare that this product conforms to CE regulations", but you'd better be sure you can back that up. I'm a little hazy about the definition of 'manufacturer' here - we don't manufacture the kind of mains equipment that needs certification, so isn't an area I've looked into closely. Where the "thousands of pounds" bit has come from is consultants selling their services (quite legitimately) to ensure that you comply with the CE regulations with the intention of avoiding prosecution. However, the information is readily available to the general public, and is linked from the site above, so anyone who can show that they've complied with the Directive is unlikely to be prosecuted. Incidentally, you can still be prosecuted if your expensive consultant has got it wrong, so you may be no better off than by "self-certifying"! So, back to RSUs, my understanding is that someone making and selling these has to register under the WEEE legislation (£30-ish), and read, digest and understand reams of text about CE marking available from and via the DTI website. If they are confident that they have complied and can show this, then they can slap a CE sticker on and off they go. You can even buy CE stickers from RS! I don't know if this will clear things up or muddy the waters further, but I bet I'll soon find out :-) |
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posted: 14 Aug 2007 23:44 from: Rextanka
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There are two US suppliers that I am aware of that sell resistance soldering equipment: Hot TIp - available from http://www.p-b-l.com/PBL2002/main-ns.html American Beauty - available from MicroMark As far as I am aware both will supply one suitable for UK mains at a premium. I have a hot tip unit and like it. Neither are particularly cheap and as far as I'm aware neither are CE compliant. Hope this is useful. Nick |
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posted: 15 Aug 2007 17:55 from: Roger Henry
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The situation in Australia is not this extreme yet. (Someone here actually manufactures RSUs but I fancy they were quite expensive. Enthusiasts usually make their own. Circuits and components are readily available. I built my own for about AUD75 many years ago and it does nearly all a commercial device would. (If I remember correctly, Martin mentioned this some years ago but wisely declined to provide details because of liability issues). This is also a concern here. In Sunny Queensland, it is a criminal offence to even open the lid on your analog, DC controller unless you are a certified electrician but, bizarrely, you can build one yourself and then get a 'competent' person to certify the workmanship and then seal it!! As there is a cost involved the situation is that 'hobbyists' continue to fabricate what they want and hope that their construct never becomes an insurance issue. Prosecutions for DIY are unheard of. It's a funny old world. Roger Henry Brisbane Rextanka wrote: There are two US suppliers that I am aware of that sell resistance soldering equipment: |
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