Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 18 Jan 2011 22:06 from: Templot User
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I am spending much to much time getting started. Menus just do not comply with normal Windows practice. I will note them as I go but you are making me work very hard just to get started. I purchased the program and downloaded the available version 0.74.be. Then downloaded and installed 0.91.co. The Help menu says I still have the old version. what changed? All the menus still behave as before and my growing list of complaints were not fixed. Here are some complaints: 1. Calibrating the printer: The menu for entering data in the field does not allow me to back up. If there is an error, I have to start over. No indication that I have to hit Enter to go to the next field. The entire calibration procedure is cumbersome. All of this should be done from one menu and not jumping through so many. I have spent 20 minutes getting this to work before finding out that someone has somehow altered my printer settings even though the LCD on the printer says everything was letter size. I still did not get a perfect alignment. The Inner box was off by 1 mm in each direction. I put in the actual measurements. Now the shaded cross dimensions are 1 mm too big in each direction. It appears to be unfixable. How do I print the current template showing on the monitor. The printout is a tiny box in the upper left hand corner and not the full-sized sheet I expected. 2. Menus All Windows programs I use have an Edit tool button with an undo option in it. I had to look around for yours. It is buried way down in the adjust option. Windows tool bars have File, Edit, View, Tools, etc. Why invent a whole new pattern? 3. I clicked the "Click-drag zoon rectangle" and the template immediately got squashed together at the bottom of the screen. How do I unquote it? The Undo command failed to restore the picture. I ended up restarted the program. 4. When I start the program, why do I have to click "Ready, Steady, CLICK.."? I already started the program so don't need to click again. On top of that I have to click Continue on the next menu to bypass some setups for fonts. Next I have to click on "Program Information". Why is all this necessary? This information should be put in a Preferences menu under Edit. Finally the next menu asks for more information and then I have to choose the Gauge all over again. The program should remember where I left off. This is just a start. Nicholas G. |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 08:44 from: Martin Wynne
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Templot User wrote: I purchased the program and downloaded the available version 0.74.b. Then downloaded and installed 0.91.c. The Help menu says I still have the old version. What changed?Hi Nicholas, Thanks for your feedback. I believe you have now fixed upgrading to 091c. 1. Calibrating the printer:While you are learning Templot I suggest you click use printer uncalibrated. This may be sufficiently accurate -- measure the printed grid lines. How do I print the current template showing on the monitor.Click the print > print the control template menu item, or press F11. You will find it helpful to click help > print F key chart menu item. All Windows programs I use have an Edit tool button with an undo option in it. I had to look around for yours. It is buried way down in the adjust option. Windows tool bars have File, Edit, View, Tools, etc.file, edit, etc., menus are on the storage box window. Click the storage box button on startup or main > storage box menu item. There is no global undo function. If necessary save a template file before making substantial changes. The undo/redo functions apply to changes to the control template only. There are 80 slots in the roll-back register for this. A quick way to access the changes is to hold down SHIFT+CTRL and roll the mouse wheel to and fro. 3. I clicked the "Click-drag zoom rectangle" and the template immediately got squashed together at the bottom of the screen. How do I unquote it?If you drag a rectangle the workpad zooms in to the rectangle. If you simply click and release the mouse button, the pad zooms in to the maximum extent at that location. To restore seeing only the control template, press the SPACE bar. To restore seeing your previous view, click the <<< button on the zoom/pan tool window. 4. When I start the program, why do I have to click "Ready, Steady, CLICK.."? I already started the program so don't need to click again. On top of that I have to click Continue on the next menu to bypass some setups for fonts. Next I have to click on "Program Information". Why is all this necessary?Ready, Steady, Click starts the template generator running, or allows you a rapid escape if you launched the program in error. You can by-pass all the startup dialogs by holding down the ENTER key. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 11:02 from: richard_t
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Martin Wynne wrote:
I know it's not quite the same thing, but the new versions of Microsoft Office (2010), now has a cancel option on the splash screen. |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 13:22 from: phileakins
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Hi Nicholas Templot is not easy to learn, I think we can all agree with that. However, as was recently said, it is a package based on Martin's engineering experience and is programmed accordingly. In fact I rather think it was begun before there were any Windows 'conventions'. Anyway, have a look at John Clutterbuck's thread in this forum called (appropriately) 'Templot GUI controls'. Applying his method, all of the common actions are presented in a series of buttons at the bottom of the screen. I was sceptical, but it works perfectly. Martin's advice about printing off the function key chart is also good. Phil |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 13:47 from: adj click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I don't want to sound rude or anything but I'm sorry I have to say I am getting a little fed up with people complaining Templot does not behave like Windows. I understand it's inconvenient to have to familiarise with a different interface but I think people need to realise that for many different reasons software comes in all shapes and sizes and that redesigning Templot to comply with the Windows way of behaving is no mean feat. There is no rule that says applications have to behave the same way as Windows and Templot is not the only software that doesn't comply with Windows, I can think of several established packages that don't  I for one thoroughly enjoy using Templot. I advise printing off the F key chart, going through the tutorials, videos and just trying things out. Keep an eye on the forum and learn the shortcut key combinations and the fog will lift. Anyway, rant over. Adriano |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 14:10 from: Raymond
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adj wrote: I don't want to sound rude or anything but I'm sorry I have to say I am getting a little fed up with people complaining Templot does not behave like Windows. I understand it's inconvenient to have to familiarise with a different interface but I think people need to realise that for many different reasons software comes in all shapes and sizes and that redesigning Templot to comply with the Windows way of behaving is no mean feat. I agree completely and don't give a toss if it is rude. We are fortunate to have the program at all and thank heaven Mr Gates is NOT involved with it. Regards Raymond |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 15:54 from: Templot User
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Martin Wynne wrote:Thanks for your feedback. I believe you have now fixed upgrading to 091c.Thank you for spending so much time typing these instructions. I am reading the tutorials. Nicholas G. |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 15:58 from: Templot User
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adj wrote: I don't want to sound rude or anything but I'm sorry I have to say I am getting a little fed up with people complaining Templot does not behave like Windows.I can understand how you get tired of hearing about programs not behaving like Windows but I feel that it is an important issue. The subject is marketing. If one wants to increase product sales one must conform to the prevailing standards. For example, Microsoft controlled the PC market for 30 years and got 90% market share. It left Apple in the dust because Apple refused to go along. Granted the tables have now turned but that doesn't mean the principal is wrong. One can remain a niche player or go with the flow and get more customers. A manufacturer can not be arrogant and assume his product is so amazing that customers will flock to it in spite of the difficult learning curve. Same thing with automobiles. Can you imagine how difficult it would be to sell a car if it required a whole new way to drive? Right now I can sit down in any car world-wide and within a few minutes be able to drive it. Same thing applies to computer programs. People are just not going to buy a new program if it requires weeks just to learn the interface before one can get into learning the content. NMRA has defined many standards for model railroading. Manufacturers sell more product if they are NMRA compliant. The same principles apply to the electrical industry. There are standards for wiring. A manufacturer must conform to color-coding, etc. Can you imagine the confusion if each mfg came up with his own rules? In conclusion, I now have to learn a second set of behaviors for the same actions of the mouse, function keys and menus before I can begin to understand the new commands needed to build switches. I agree that the engineering aspects of building switches in Templot appears to be phenomenal. I haven't seen anything like it in any of the computer programs I already own. I intend to build my own switches in O gauge since there is nothing available on the market in the code rail I will be using. Nicholas G. |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 20:01 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Nicholas As has been said, Templot can be hard to learn. I'm one of those people that wants to just install a program and expect to be able to use it. I couldn't do that with Templot and also felt frustrated, then I worked my way through the tutorials and suddenly it clicked. Definitely work the tutorials! You will find some differences though as they were written for 0.74b (I think) and some things are slightly different in 0.91c. You can have both versions on your computer at the same time though - just install them in different places. For example, Microsoft controlled the PC market for 30 yearsI think Templot might have been around for longer than that  4. When I start the program, why do I have to click "Ready, Steady, CLICK.."? I already started the program so don't need to click again. On top of that I have to click Continue on the next menu to bypass some setups for fonts. Next I have to click on "Program Information". Why is all this necessary? This information should be put in a Preferences menu under Edit. Finally the next menu asks for more information and then I have to choose the Gauge all over again. The program should remember where I left off.I agree that this seems unwieldy, but to be honest I just keep bashing the Enter key without bothering to read all the prompts - the defaults work fine. You can also just hold the Enter key down, as Martin keeps telling me Please persevere with Templot and you won't regret it. April 10th this year is my 10th anniversary of using Templot! Cheers |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 21:21 from: Martin Wynne
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Even if I knew what "making Templot like Windows" actually means, and even if I wanted to do such a thing, it is a futile request. I have just run the compiler again: 2_191548_140000000.png  As you can see, Templot contains 225,280 lines of code as of today. Nearly a quarter of a million. Every one written by me, over a period of 30 years. There is now no possibility whatsoever that I can go back and start again with a fresh sheet of paper. Templot is what it is, and will remain. Users have a choice of accepting that, or not using it. I do try to respond to requests for changes, and I'm currently working on a new optional mode of working which I hope beginners will find easier to grasp. But fundamental change in the way Templot works is simply not now possible. I still think the way it works now is the best that I can devise for the intended task. Every time I try to work through other ideas, I run into difficulties and trade-offs that would significantly degrade the functionality. And I'm led to believe some users do actually like Templot the way it is. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 21:23 from: Phil O
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Hi Nicholas I have to concur with all of the above. It is difficult to get your head around it at first but persevere with the tutorials and suddenly it will click. I have been persevering for about 7 years now and I can draw up a basic layout with one or two partial templates as for slips and tandem turnouts by referring back to the relevant video's I'm not yet up to doing irregular diamonds etc, but hopefully we will get them in the next upgrade. It is also helpful to know the basic permanent way vocabulary otherwise you may have problem understanding what is being asked of you. Cheers Phil |
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posted: 19 Jan 2011 23:04 from: Mike Huxley click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Nicholas, There's an old saying that holds very true when using Templot for the first few times " Don't run before you can walk". I've been using Templot for just over 3 months now and it was a case of forgetting what Windows commands are and just trying out what each action does to a template. Also it's important to run through the tutorials and ask questions on here. What's the worst that can happen? You don't save what you've just done. It's easy to start again having learnt from your last mistake. Martin has produced a fantastic aid to producing accurate templates for building the layout that you want and that will look right. Stick with it. Mike |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 05:07 from: Nicholas Geti
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Every Windows program that I use has some kind of Preference file. Usually in an Edit tab on a toolbar. It includes every item in current use and is updated either automatically whenever there is a change or on demand by the user. Microsoft Word saves the current file in Normal.dot and also a backup file every xx number of minutes as defined by the user. Templot problem: I found out that I can drag the two monitor window down to a single monitor. The next time I opened Templot I had to drag it back again. Templot problem: Opening Templot always returns me to the T-55 default gauge even though the Enter key bypasses the start menus. Also you claim that one can make an emergency bail out if the program was accidentally started. I doubt that I clicked the wrong shortcut icon more than five times in the last thirty years. All of these items are interface issues and have nothing to do with the quality of your system's content which as I said is very powerful. You indicated that your system contains 500,000 lines of code but my guess is a lot of it is hard coding your menus. You had to do all this before modern programming tools became available. I programmed data base systems for thirty years using Oracle, Foxpro and what have you. All of these systems contain their own libraries so that the developer did not have to hard code menus. E.g. with Foxpro a developer can program numerous multipage screens containing dozens of toolbars and buttons with just a few lines of code. The latest programming environments from Python, Dabo and many from Microsoft go even further in attempts to simplify building web pages and screens so that the developer can concentrate on the content of the application. Again I am not trying to harass you but am really trying to learn this system and hope that it can be made easier on a beginner. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 05:54 from: Martin Wynne
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Nicholas Geti wrote: Every Windows program that I use has some kind of Preference file. Usually in an Edit tab on a toolbar. It includes every item in current use and is updated either automatically whenever there is a change or on demand by the user.Hi Nicholas, Welcome to Templot Club. Thanks for your feedback. If you read back through some of the topics on here you will find that many of the points you are making have been discussed many times over the years. And some of them will be addressed in the next Pug, which I'm hoping to be able to release before too long. See for example (3 pages): topic 752 This dialog will be in the next Pug: saved_prefs_dialog.png  Microsoft Word saves the current file in Normal.dot and also a backup file every xx number of minutes as defined by the user.Templot saves a rolling backup file every time there is a change to the storage box contents. The time interval is irrelevant. Microsoft Word is a text-based business application. Templot is a design-based engineering application. The two tasks are so far apart that to expect much similarity of function is counter-productive and would lead to the loss of a lot of existing functionality. This is the core reason why Templot isn't like Word, and can't be made to be like Word. Templot problem: Opening Templot always returns me to the T-55 default gaugeThat is an important design feature which I don't intend to change. T-55 is a fictional gauge not used (as far as I know) by any modeller anywhere. All you need to do is reload a file or your work in progress and the track gauge is restored to match the final template in the file. I doubt that I clicked the wrong shortcut icon more than five times in the last thirty years.Lucky you! I click the wrong thing at least 5 times an hour.  All of these items are interface issues and have nothing to do with the quality of your system's content which as I said is very powerful. You indicated that your system contains 500,000 lines of code but my guess is a lot of it is hard coding your menus. You had to do all this before modern programming tools became available.No, the menu creation is done by the VCL and is very easy to program. That's one reason why Templot makes such extensive use of traditional menus rather than multiple dialogs and property sheets, which do involve much more design effort and time. The actual figure I quoted was 225,280 lines. Nearly all of it relates to the functional content, mathematics and graphics. Again I am not trying to harass you but am really trying to learn this system and hope that it can be made easier on a beginnerI appreciate your feedback, but I would make a couple of suggestions: 1. Try Templot for more than 24 hours before passing judgement on the way it works and suggesting wholesale changes. 2. Forget that you are a database programmer and approach Templot as a modeller. It is intended to be a tool for the modeller's workshop, not for his office desk. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 09:18 from: Richard McL
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I am essentially a new user of just 2 days, and totally disagree with most of Nicholas's comments. I have been a used of Microsoft products since they produced Word V1 and Excel V1 for the Apple Macintosh. They each fitted on a single floppy and included most of the functions that are still used and loved. Since then MS have released countless new versions, each maddengly different to the previous and at regular intervals have changed the file format so that documents in the new version are incompatible with the old version - if I was cynical I would think that it was a way to sell more copies of the new version. Any suggestion of software being consistent with Microsoft is ludicrous since Microsoft have never been able to be consistent with themselves for more than a year or two. Moving to Office 2007 was a particular nightmare. Most of the railways I know or have studied and would like to model have relatively simple trackwork - yes I would love a working model of Munich or Zurich Hauptbahnhof, Manchester Victoria, Newcastle Central or wherever but would need a building the size cricket pitch to fit it in, and a fortune to match. Most normal stations that can be modelled in a normal house have relatively simple track layouts (5 to 10 turnouts and maybe a slip). Within an hour of loading the programme I was able to produce a 5 foot 3 inch gauge B7 crossover, which gave me a real sense of achievement. I know now that I will be able to build at least one of the layouts that I have been putting off for the last 30 years and more. Templot is the easy bit of the job - building the trackwork to sufficient accuracy that your trains glide through is nuch more demanding. Anyone who finds Templot unintuitive should be made to use MapInfo, AutoCAD, Photoshop (not the Elements version) or MS Access. All wonderful but very specific for what they do, and not in any way sugared for casual users. The thought process necessary to design railway track is not the same thought process to write a short report; it is a good thing that the software for each is tailored to the task. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 12:21 from: Nicholas Geti
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Incremental scrolling is an important feature in all Microsoft applications. This technique allows navigating scroll menus by typing the first few letters and the system finds the nearest match in the list. If one types fast enough, one can get four or five letters of the item one wants and the system will highlight the found item. In the default T-55 menu I have to use the mouse to scroll down to find the O-NMRA gauge. This is rather time consuming when added to all the other mouse clicks needed to get started each time. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 12:24 from: Martin Wynne
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Nicholas Geti wrote:In the default T-55 menu I have to use the mouse to scroll down to find the O-NMRA gauge. This is rather time consuming when added to all the other mouse clicks needed to get started each time.Hi Nichloas, Simply save a .box file containing your templates and reload it next time. Your track gauge will be set automatically from the final template loaded. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 12:28 from: Nicholas Geti
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Ok. I am working with the Storage Box. I understand now how it works. I assume that the blue field showing the Control Template (the one that is displayed when the Gauge is choosen) will change if I change the Control Template? What does the lower case letter on the template information screen next to the right/left arrows signify? It changes as I click the arrows. Is that just a reference to a page number in the help file? Printing. I figured out how the printing function works. It would be nice if it remembered that the printer was calibrated. I see that "print screen contents" shows the template very small in the upper left corner of the printout. I did not understand this hint when I first tried to print. The O Gauge switch printout matches exactly the actual one that I built last week using the Fast Tracks Template. This company only has #6 or less frog sizes but I want to go to #11 or #12. Do you have a way to output a vector file of your drawings? I would like to be able to drive a CNC machine but they require vector files. What are the tricks and tips for building an actual switch using a template? I can see gluing ties (timbers) to the template but how does one hold all the track pieces in place and line them up with the template accurately? I can see that there might be a parallax issue when doing that. Am I overthinking the problems and it is actually easier than it looks? In actual construction how are the points filed? The Fast Tracks technique is to file the inner edge of the point to a sharp point. This however breaks through to the other side of the rail web leaving the rail head and flange unsupported. In real life I would not expect that the entire point is ground in this manner. How is it done? What is a peg? Is that the bullseye displayed on the workspace? I am going to open some of the examples in the tutorial and try them out tomorrow night. Templot looks very interesting. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 13:17 from: Martin Wynne
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Nicholas Geti wrote:What does the lower case letter on the template information screen next to the right/left arrows signify? It changes as I click the arrows. Is that just a reference to a page number in the help file?Hi Nicholas, Do you mean this (ringed)? : 2_200758_500000000.png  There are 8 cyclic page slots ( labelled a - h ) in the roll-back register for the Help viewer. You can run back and forth through the most recent Help notes that you have been viewing by clicking the top arrow buttons. The letter is simply an indicator to help you find the one you want. If you want one of the pages to remain visible and not fall off the end of the register when more than 8 pages have been viewed, click the options... button and then make stay-visible copy menu item. Do you have a way to output a vector file of your drawings? I would like to be able to drive a CNC machine but they require vector files.See: http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_dxf.htm What is a peg? Is that the bullseye displayed on the workspace?See: http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_geometry.htm pad_symbols.png  regards, Martin. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 15:53 from: wcampbell23
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Nicholas Geti wrote: Printing. I figured out how the printing function works. It would be nice if it remembered that the printer was calibrated. I see that "print screen contents" shows the template very small in the upper left corner of the printout. I did not understand this hint when I first tried to print.Hi Nicholas I guess you have not "served your time" using track spikes or soldered copperclad sleeper construction Printing - the printer settings can be saved - I have different settings for paper and card, for example. You are prompted to load the printer settings in the printer dialogue. Vector files - Templot exports in DXF format - very easy to do and works well. You can also export to a virtual printer if you want pdf files. Construction - this is essentially the same as using Fasttracks - the only difference is that the sleepering is not joined by a web. Templot is so much more flexible in what you can do. Filing switch blades - these should be filed on both sides of the rail so that you do not get the "breakthrough" that you describe. Have a look at this topic on RMweb - it will answer a lot of your questions: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=45544 It is very worthwhile taking the time to go through each page of this topic and there are lots of good pictures. There is a learning curve with Templot but it is the best software for custom designed track and turnouts. Regards Bill Campbell. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 18:07 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi NicholasIt would be nice if it remembered that the printer was calibrated.How can Templot know which printer you want to use, or which paper? I mainly use a Canon i850 inkjet, but sometimes use cheap copy paper, sometimes Bristol Board, sometimes telex roll, and that's just for Templot. I have a separate calibration file for each paper type for just that one printer. For really rough and ready prints I use an HP Laserjet, so more calibration files. I don't think I've ever used my Alps printer for Templot! The point being that if Templot "remembered" a particular calibration, there's a danger of using the wrong one for the paper/printer you want to use because you forget to change it. Having to load a calibration file means it's pretty sure that you'll get the right one. This is a massive flexibility of Templot and allows you to effectively adjust your printer for different paper types. If you're wondering why this is necessary, many printers will feed different types of papers by different amounts, so that needs to be adjusted to get a fixed feed to match actual size. The width variation is zero for different paper types, at least for the printers I've used, but the width is ever so slightly under on my Canon when you measure the lines. Again, that can be adjusted out. Something has just occurred to me - you are saving the calibration file, aren't you? You only need to calibrate the printer once for each paper type. Keep plugging away at it Cheers |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 18:11 from: Peter Ayre click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
And I'm led to believe some users do actually like Templot the way it is.I think that would include me, because having learnt the hard way, it does just what I want  .I think there can be a lot of running before you can walk with new users. Just because you can use other programs (windaz or others) and are computer literate there is possibly a thought that Templot will be easy. It is frustrating at first, but if you do the tutorials and check out the videos, things do then start to fall into place. Regards, Peter |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 18:27 from: Nicholas Geti
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wcampbell23 wrote: Nicholas Geti wrote:Printing. I figured out how the printing function works. It would be nice if it remembered that the printer was calibrated. I see that "print screen contents" shows the template very small in the upper left corner of the printout. I did not understand this hint when I first tried to print.Hi Nicholas Thanks for your encouragement. I spent three hours last night with the menus and got the hang of navigating Templot which is where I was stymied. Now on to learning the actual content. In all the pictures and books I bought on building a turnout no one mentioned filing on both side of the point rail. The Fast Track Filing tool does not allow it as shown in their video. It is true I have not done any spiking but I bought some tools to try. Since I am going to be building an outdoor O scale railroad, I will be using plastic ties instead of wood. Plastic will be difficult to spike. I may try gluing first to hold things in position then drilling some holes for spikes. |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 19:39 from: Alan Turner
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Nicholas Geti wrote: In all the pictures and books I bought on building a turnout no one mentioned filing on both side of the point rail. The Fast Track Filing tool does not allow it as shown in their video. That's because the way that Fast Tracks constructs the crossing nose is not the way it is done prototypically. TEMPLOT shows it prototypically. Alan |
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posted: 20 Jan 2011 23:30 from: BruceNordstrand
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wcampbell23 wrote: Hi Nicholas I guess you have not "served your time" using track spikes or soldered copperclad sleeper constructionBill OT for this thread but thank for that link, I never knew how to make the "butt jointed" vee's before, I have always used the 50/50 split filing method that Fasttracks uses. I am definitely going to try this method out on my next 15 turnouts I have to build! Cheers Bruce |
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| Last edited on 20 Jan 2011 23:32 by BruceNordstrand |
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posted: 21 Jan 2011 01:17 from: Nicholas Geti
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Paul Boyd wrote: Hi NicholasI found that saving my objects in the storage box also saved the printer calibration. Or, at least I think that is where it got saved because it came up properly when I started my work session. |
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posted: 21 Jan 2011 02:11 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Bruce, I have posted these notes before, but they might be helpful again here. You don't need expensive jigs to make a crossing vee, you can use the paper template printed from Templot and do most of the work after assembly of the rails. This method results in solid metal at the tip and cleans up any slight alignment error and any stray solder. 2_201959_350000000.gif  I have greatly exaggerated the crossing angle for clarity. The rails are shown in cross-section along the rail -- yellow shows the rail head and foot, orange shows the web of the rail. This is for bullhead rail as shown. A is a prepared piece of rail with the end bent to the crossing angle, or slightly less. Allow a little extra on the overall length. File it (or sand it on a sanding disc) down to the web, as at B. This makes the splice rail. C is the same as A, but bent the other way to make the opposite hand. This makes the point rail. File a recess down to the web to receive the splice rail B, as shown. D is a scrap length of rail, metal strip, copper laminate, etched kit fret, or similar. Glue the paper template down to a block of scrap wood. Assemble B, C and D on the template as shown. They can be held down with drawing pins, screws and penny washers, wooden clothes pegs, or similar. Solder B and C together at the tip, and lightly solder D in place across the rail tops as a temporary stiffener while filing/sanding. It can be left in place until you are actually building the track, and then the surplus vee rail ends are trimmed back as required. If you will be using a sanding disc, use high-temperature solder because the rail gets hot while sanding. If necessary stop and dip it in a jar of cold water. Using high-temp solder also reduces the risk of it coming apart later if you are using soldered track construction. V is the result after filing as shown, or making two cuts on the sander. The bulk of the metal can be quickly removed with a coarse file or metal shears before finishing on the sander or with a fine file. If sanding, note that the solder dust is toxic -- take precautions to contain it. Note how this method results in solid metal at the tip with no undercut. The final tasks are to blunt off the nose as shown, to a scale width of 3/4" (bullhead) or 5/8" (flat-bottom), and to re-instate the rail-head corner radius on the filed areas. A few strokes with a fine file and a final polish with abrasive paper will do that. It's also a good idea to take a few thou off the top of the vee nose so that it dips down slightly below the level of the wing rails. This allows for the coning angle on the wheels as they run off the wing rail onto the nose, producing smoother running. You can see these features in the prototype here: 2_202055_480000000.png  © Mick Nicholson with thanks Showing the blunt nose of the crossing vee supported on a timber, with the actual gauge intersection located between the timbers. The top of the vee nose is taken down slightly below the level of the wing rails, and rounded off. The end result is an accurately aligned vee matching the template and comprised of solid rail at the nose. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 21 Jan 2011 02:18 from: BruceNordstrand
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Thanks Martin, time to invest in a disc sander me thinks, so much easier than filing My wife won't be happy but I'll just let her buy something as well |
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posted: 21 Jan 2011 09:43 from: wcampbell23
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Nicholas Geti wrote: It is true I have not done any spiking but I bought some tools to try. Since I am going to be building an outdoor O scale railroad, I will be using plastic ties instead of wood. Plastic will be difficult to spike. I may try gluing first to hold things in position then drilling some holes for spikes.Hi again My outdoor line uses custom turnouts designed in Templot. These are constructed using Peco SM32 components for 16mm scale, 32mm gauge. These are moulded in plastic and assembled using a suitable solvent. I constructed the turnouts with a 1mm thick plastic batten underneath the turnout timbers (ties) to maintain the alignment of the timbering. The only aids to construction other than tools were the Templot templates, a steel rule marked in mm and an offcut of rail (as a check gauge) - no expensive fancy jigs or gauges. Hopefully the picture will demonstrate! 54_210431_240000000.jpg  One of the big advantages of Templot is that you can have the scale/gauge combination that suits you and you can specify every aspect of the track design. A side benefit is that the cost of building your own turnouts is much less than buying ready made. I think that matching chairs are generally used with plastic timbering (ties) rather than spikes. One technique for using spikes with plastic timbering is to use longer than normal spikes and then clench the end of the spike underneath the timber to retain it. Finally, don't forget to enjoy your modelling! Regards Bill Campbell. |
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posted: 21 Jan 2011 11:17 from: Nickeaston
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Take Templot for what it is. Take time to learn what it can and cannot do by using the tutorials and then make constructive criticism. To produce an edition that matches the common Windows model would take alot of time and then be VERY expensive to buy for the relatively small number of users it has. I have been writing software since Sinclair Spectrum days and that was in machine code. If you have ever drawn trackwork for a large layout and set out the timbering by hand you will know what a boon Templot is. All programs have their quirks; in CAD just because you can draw with Turbocad don't assume you can use Autocad. At the end of the day you get what you pay for and for what it does Templot is cheap. |
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posted: 21 Jan 2011 14:05 from: JFS
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Nicholas, I have a suggestion to make - why don't you work your way through all the video tutorials which Martin has taken the trouble to produce - I suggest you start with the easy ones. When you have worked your way through them ALL and can do all of them, I for one, would be pleased to hear what you think of Templot's FUNCTIONALITY. Do you use Lotus Notes? Its User Interface is a Java Driven heap of rubbish yet it is still the market leader in its domain. Why? Because its encryption and hence security (ie its core FUNCTIONALITY) is so good. You might - given a little bit of patience - find the same to be true of Templot. By the way, Lotus Notes is just one example of very expensive software which I, for one, can "crash" at will (and just try opening two instances!)- the same cannot be said for Templot which is extremely stable. Good Luck, Howard |
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posted: 21 Jan 2011 18:11 from: Nicholas Geti
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Lotus notes made me gag. I worked at a place that used it and the manager tried to show me some tricks but he ended up looking pretty foolish for simple stuff. I didn't need it so I didn't bother with it any more. Templot functionality is amazing. It is the navigation that is taking me so long to get going. |
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posted: 22 Jan 2011 16:40 from: JFS
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I agree about LN - but in that case, users are not the purchasers of course. So glad you like Templot's functionality. Martin has said many times that when he started out on this thing - probably before many users were even born - he never dreamed it would be even possible to get it where it is now. I suspect that if he had his time over again, he might do some things differently, but we are where we are. Please just persevere with getting the hang of it - you will find it worth the effort. Just as an example, last year a friend asked me to build the track for his layout - only a small one, about 6 points, but not an inch of straight track anywhere. From his simple pencil sketch, to having all the templates created and printed took less than half an hour and the geometry was perfect. I don't know how long it would have taken with pre-printed templates, scissors and paste! Have you looked at this thread? topic 1311 John has developed a thrid party GUI, and it might just make things a bit easier for you. I like it personally - give it a try. Good Luck. Howard. |
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posted: 28 Jan 2011 03:46 from: Martin Wynne
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JFS wrote: I suspect that if he had his time over again, he might do some things differently, but we are where we are.Hi Howard, It's amusing to ponder such things. One thing which I would almost certainly change would be the name "Templot". I gave it almost no thought at all, it was simply a file name invented on the spur of the moment to fit the old 8.3 name format. At the time I was working on printing templates on a flat-bed pen plotter. Most computer printers at the time were 9-pin dot-matrix impact printers intended for text. I eventually got Templot driving one of them in graphics mode, but it was incredibly noisy and slow. Nowadays pen plotters are old hat and it's all ink-jets or lasers. So the name Templot doesn't make much sense. I would have preferred a more stylish name -- for a long time I was half-minded to change it to "Platelayer". But in the age of Google it's a great advantage to have a single invented word as a product name -- this avoids getting masses of unrelated search results. I didn't know that at the time of course. Too late to change now. As you say we are where we are. Martin. |
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