Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1479A Pug for Paul?
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posted: 15 May 2011 16:24

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Not that I've just spent ages creating two irregular diamonds with squillions of partial templates and would just like to see the new PUG... :D
Dear all,

Since Paul wrote that recently, I've given matters a lot of thought.

I'm really very embarrassed that I've been promising irregular diamonds for several years now, and yet they are still not currently available in Templot.

They will be in the next Pug, but at present I can't make any promises about when that will be available -- there is still a lot of unfinished stuff to complete and many gaps to fill. Not least the writing of masses of help notes, especially for the sketchboard.

After years of saying I would do no such thing, I have decided to make my unfinished development versions of Templot available.

I'm sure proper software developers would strongly advise against such a move -- but as I'm not a proper software developer such advice can be happily disregarded. :)

In the short term this is mainly to help those who need irregular diamonds to progress their layouts. But also I'm hoping that feedback from members of a "development  group" will be a valuable help in filling the gaps.

Unlike some software support forums, I very much do not want to create a "them and us" situation in Templot Club where a few members have access to "beta" versions and the majority don't. So this will be available to all members of Templot Club who want it.

On the other hand, I must retain proper control over how my development code is used and by whom, so there will have to be some restrictions and hoops to jump through. An open download could turn into a support nightmare which would stop Templot development dead. :(

I will write again in a day or two when I have set up the mechanisms and have a working download available.

Thanks Paul. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 May 2011 16:31

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Yes Please!

Put my name in the list - and don't worry - you can trust us":-)

Best Wishes,

Howard

posted: 15 May 2011 16:58

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

Now I feel embarrassed about embarrassing you :D

Yes, please, I would love to try out the development software!

Cheers

posted: 15 May 2011 17:37

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hi Paul,

Don't feel too bad about it, there have been many of us - not least me - sticking the knife in (in the nicest possible way) for years about irregular diamonds!!

I think it will be a fantastic tool. My only concern is that I will spend ages reworking all the layouts in the box folder rather than building track - but that is a risk I am prepared to run!

Best Wishes,

Howard

posted: 15 May 2011 19:09

from:

richard_t
 
Nr. Spalding, South Holland - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
I think it will be a fantastic tool. My only concern is that I will spend ages reworking all the layouts in the box folder rather than building track - but that is a risk I am prepared to run!

Yes - I'd like to have a go at the development version - but also fear the above!

One thing I'd be worried about is if I couldn't open BOX files modified/created in the development version, in the next offical PUG.

Other than that - I'd like to board the next Templot train please :thumb:

posted: 16 May 2011 00:36

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

I would like to try the development version too, for two reasons :-

I think some of the new faetures that you have put in there may be useful to use.

and, I don't wan't to be seeing forum post emails from the more experienced users like Paul, Howard and Brian if I can't try some of the tasks out on my version.

I have no 'mega project' to spoil so no worries on that score. If I had I would be more than capable of spoiling it without new software!

Well done for taking the decision to release a new version ASAP.

Rob


posted: 16 May 2011 11:40

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Hi Martin

I'd like to try the development version when available. At the moment, the track for my existing layout has long been complete (apart from a short bit of approach track) and I'm using Templot mainly to experiment with ideas for other projects, or possible future extensions to the existing one. None of this is in any way important, but I am interested in the sketchpad and some other facilities in the next pug.

Cheers
Nigel

posted: 16 May 2011 12:20

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Thanks to all for the positive response. :)

I think I should make clear that this is not an early release of a usable Pug. It's an unfinished development version. There is still a lot of stuff not yet working and some big gaps.

I'm not too sure how much real practical use will be possible -- if you want to use the sketchboard and other new features for actual output I think you may be disappointed and find it difficult and frustrating to make much progress. It would be unfortunate if your opinion of the new features was coloured by a poor first impression from an unfinished program. If actual use rather than helping with testing is your main aim I think it may be better to wait for the final release. 

The main reason for making it available now is to help those who are struggling to create irregular diamonds to produce some usable templates. Even there, it's not finished -- some extra timber shoving may be needed which won't be needed in the final release.

Beyond the irregular diamonds the main advantage will be to me rather than you. :)  It will be very helpful to get your feedback and test results and I shall be very grateful for your help. But for productive use I think you should wait a while yet.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 May 2011 12:40

from:

Raymond
 
Bexhill-on-sea - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

I'd be happy to test run it for you too. Having spent a lot of time recently making irregular diamonds and the possibility of more to come it would be useful to see what you have produced.

Regards

Raymond

posted: 16 May 2011 15:33

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:

I think I should make clear that this is not an early release of a usable Pug. It's an unfinished development version. There is still a lot of stuff not yet working and some big gaps.
Hi Martin

I'm happy with all that. And if playing around with it can generate useful feedback, so much the better.

Cheers
Nigel

posted: 16 May 2011 19:06

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:

Beyond the irregular diamonds the main advantage will be to me rather than you. :)  It will be very helpful to get your feedback and test results and I shall be very grateful for your help.


I for one think that it sounds like a fair trade off, but perhaps to get best value for yourself, you might need to direct our attention where it is helpful and think about how to structure the feedback you need - otherwise there might be a risk of us blundering into issues in an unhelpful way. The new forum section sounds good - perhaps with sub-threads within it to facilitate quick reference for all.

Best Wishes,

Howard

posted: 16 May 2011 19:38

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:

I think I should make clear that this is not an early release of a usable Pug. It's an unfinished development version. There is still a lot of stuff not yet working and some big gaps.

Martin,

Maybe you could outline which bits of 0.91c have been worked on in the development version ? That would help people see if using it would be worthwhile ahead of the next PUG release.

I will be happy to see the "Saved Program Preferences" functionality.

Presumably all the base functionality of 0.91c is still there but with greater abilities in some areas ( diamonds for example )

Rgds
Rob


posted: 16 May 2011 20:24

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Rob Manchester wrote:
Maybe you could outline which bits of 0.91c have been worked on in the development version ? That would help people see if using it would be worthwhile ahead of the next PUG release.

I will be happy to see the "Saved Program Preferences" functionality.

Presumably all the base functionality of 0.91c is still there but with greater abilities in some areas ( diamonds for example )
Hi Rob,

I don't want to be too negative about this. There is a lot of new stuff in there and a lot of it is working fine. But the strongest chain is useless if there is still one link missing in the middle, and the two ends are temporarily tied together with string.

Yes, I will be explaining what is new, what is working, and what isn't. And I expect to be uploading a new version every few days, each one filling in another gap. :)  Or creating a new one. :(

But what I don't want is to get support requests such as "I'm trying to do Bristol Temple Meads in the dev version, and I can't seem to get the platform edges to line up alongside the scissors crossover, please help". The dev version isn't ready to be used like that. Stick with 091c for the present.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 May 2011 21:10

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I think it's reasonable for us to expect a development version to be just that.  I see it more as a means of trying things out and possibly reporting bugs - that's what Beta software is for!  I certainly wouldn't dream of using it to design, oh, Bristol Temple Meads, as a random example :D then finding that our lovingly crafted half acre track plans don't work at a later date, or that we lose data randomly.

You tell us which bits are new, and we'll try them out!

Oh, and if I can make my 1:1.75-ish irregular diamond whilst I'm at it, so much the better :D  (Even if the output is a bitmap for insertion as a background image into my "live" track plan.)

Whatever happens, I don't want you to regret your decision to release a development version, so I guess it's up to those to whom it is released to ensure that doesn't happen.

Cheers

posted: 16 May 2011 21:12

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Martin,

I understand your position entirely and am fully in support of all the work you put into Templot. Version 0.91c has the functionality I need for my small projects but new features like the "Saved Preferences" would be very useful to me. None of my projects would suffer much harm if the "string" broke halfway through and I draw platform edges by holding a pencil against the middle of my longest coach as it is pushed through the station area!

Is it the intention that users of the development version run it along side the existing version much the same as some run 0.91 and 0.74  in order to benefit from both the later features and compatability with the tutorials ?

Personally I am happy to take the output from Templot as a guide to aid in the making of the track using the correct gauges rather than to spend a lot of time with the program getting every small detail spot-on. I do not use many of the more advanced features of Templot but allowing the program to be customised on each start up would be great. Understandably some of your users have differing views on this.

Regards
Rob


posted: 16 May 2011 21:17

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Rob
Is it the intention that users of the development version run it along side the existing version?
That's how I would expect to use it.

posted: 16 May 2011 21:31

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Oh, and if I can make my 1:1.75-ish irregular diamond whilst I'm at it, so much the better :D
Hi Paul,

Yes, but be warned -- 1: 1.5  is the bottom limit. :)

Templot won't go shorter now, and most likely never will. The maths is too messy and the prototypes vary too much. Below 1.5 you are back to overlaying plain track and adding hand-drawn details.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 May 2011 02:54

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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In the hope of keeping discussions in the Development doings forum in some sort of order :) , I have created a collection of empty holding topics in readiness. There is nothing there yet, but the topic headings provide a useful checklist of the major new features:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_forum.php?id=17

I will add some notes under each heading when I have the first download ready.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 May 2011 10:19

from:

Alan Turner
 
Dudley - United Kingdom

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Martin,

I would like to register my interest and happy to provide user feedback as part of the deal.

regards

Alan

posted: 17 May 2011 18:01

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Just looking at the empty thread titles has whetted my appetite! Now I know what a gaunt turnout is...

posted: 17 May 2011 18:09

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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I'm hoping to have a download of the code for Templot Development Version available later today.

If you would like to join the party, and help in testing it, here's the first part of the hoop-jumping exercise: :)

1. post a reply here saying so.

2. confirm that:

a. you will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on your own computer. There is no need to make backups because it can be readily downloaded again if necessary.

and

b. the computer on which you will install the code is your own personal property and under your full control.

and

c. before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, you will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.

and

d. the computer has access to the internet.
________________

I will then move you to the development membership group and turn you purple. :)

When you see that I have done that, you will be able to access this part of Templot Club and download the file:

topic 1500

(There is nothing there yet.)

edit: download now available. If your user name is showing purple you should be able to access it.

Once you are purple you will also be able to post messages in the Development doings forum.

Many thanks for your help.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 May 2011 18:31

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Here goes :D

1. I'd like to join the party!

2. I confirm that:

a. I will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on my own computer. There is no need to make backups because it can be readily downloaded again if necessary.

and

b. the computer on which I will install the code is my own personal property and under my full control.

and

c. before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, I will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.

and

d. the computer has access to the internet.

posted: 17 May 2011 18:36

from:

Rob Manchester
 
Manchester - United Kingdom

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Martin,

I would be happy to join the party and provide feedback but will not complain if anything spoils my project.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to the PC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the PC
d) The PC has internet access.

Rob



posted: 17 May 2011 20:04

from:

Raymond
 
Bexhill-on-sea - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
I'm hoping to have a download of the code for Templot Development Version available later today.

If you would like to join the party, and help in testing it, here's the first part of the hoop-jumping exercise: :)

1. post a reply here saying so.

2. confirm that:

a. you will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on your own computer. There is no need to make backups because it can be readily downloaded again if necessary.

and

b. the computer on which you will install the code is your own personal property and under your full control.

and

c. before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, you will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.

and

d. the computer has access to the internet.
________________

I will then move you to the development membership group and turn you purple. :)

When you see that I have done that, you will be able to access this part of Templot Club and download the file:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_forum.php?id=18

(There is nothing there yet.)

Once you are purple you will also be able to post messages in the Development doings forum.

Many thanks for your help.

regards,

Martin.

I will not share or distribute the development version of Templot or make back-up copies.

I own and completely control the computer on which I use Templot and no-one else has access to it.

Before selling or disposing of my computer I will clear all reference to Templot.

Regards

Raymond

posted: 17 May 2011 20:30

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
I'm hoping to have a download of the code for Templot Development Version available later today.

If you would like to join the party, and help in testing it, here's the first part of the hoop-jumping exercise: :)

1. post a reply here saying so.

2. confirm that:



I will then move you to the development membership group and turn you purple. :)

When you see that I have done that, you will be able to access this part of Templot Club and download the file:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_forum.php?id=18

(There is nothing there yet.)

Once you are purple you will also be able to post messages in the Development doings forum.

Many thanks for your help.

regards,

Martin.
Hi Martin

Include me in please.

a.
 I will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on your own computer.


b.
The computer on which I will install the code is my own personal property and under your full control.


c.
Before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, I will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.


d.
 The computer has access to the internet.

Cheers

Phil
________________





posted: 17 May 2011 21:14

from:

Bernard C
 
United Kingdom

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1. I would like to join the party

2. I confirm that:

a. I will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on my own computer. I will not make backups because it can be readily downloaded again if necessary.

and

b. the computer on which I will install the code is my own personal property and under my full control.

and

c. before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, I will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.

and

d. the computer has access to the internet.

Regards

Bernard

posted: 17 May 2011 21:54

from:

Alan Turner
 
Dudley - United Kingdom

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Martin,

I wish to join the party and will provide feedback.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to the PC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the PC
d) The PC has internet access.

Alan


posted: 17 May 2011 22:41

from:

Dave Summers
 
Urchfont, Devizes - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Please include me too.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to the PC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the PC
d) The PC has internet access.

Regards

Dave

posted: 18 May 2011 00:30

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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I have now uploaded the TDV file. It's at:

topic 1500

If your user name is showing purple you should be able to go there and download the file.

Full instructions are on there too. Thanks again for your help.

The next job is for me to write some notes about what's in the TDV (Templot Development Version). :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 May 2011 09:52

from:

richard_t
 
Nr. Spalding, South Holland - United Kingdom

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Martin,

I wish to join the party and will provide feedback.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to the PC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the PC
d) The PC has internet access.


(or basically, me too :-)

Richard

posted: 18 May 2011 12:14

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Martin

Count me in. Re the assurances you seek:-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.

b) I alone have access to the PC

c) I will delete all Templot code and work should I dispose of the PC

d) The PC has internet access.

Cheers
Nigel


posted: 18 May 2011 18:40

from:

Richard Spratt
 
Stockton-upon-Tees - United Kingdom

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Martin,

I would be happy to join the party and provide feedback but will not complain if anything spoils my project.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to the PC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the PC
d) The PC has internet access.

Richard Spratt

posted: 18 May 2011 21:21

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

Please accept this post as confirmation that I wish to join the development group.

I confirm that:-

a. I will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on my own computer. I understand that there is no need to make backups because it can be readily downloaded again if necessary.



and

b. the computer on which I will install the code is my own personal property and under my full control.

and

c. before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, I will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.

and

d. the computer has access to the internet.


I look forward to being added to the group.

Best Wishes,

Howard

posted: 18 May 2011 22:12

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
I look forward to being added to the group.
Hi Howard,

You have been. :)

Just a reminder for everyone -- if your user name appears in the purple colour you are a member of the development group, and you can download the Templot Development Version from:

 topic 1500

This is open to all Templot Club members who wish to join in -- to get started see:

 message 9282

regards,

Martin.

posted: 19 May 2011 10:17

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Many thanks Martin,

(I noticed I was Purple as I clicked send!) - and now you have my affirmations as well.

Looking forward to getting stuck in when I have a betted internet connection!)

Many thanks for all this additional effort and hoping that we can help things along,

Howard.

posted: 19 May 2011 20:33

from:

Brian McK
 
 

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Hi Martin,

Please include me too.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to the PC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the PC
d) The PC has internet access.

Regards
Brian McK.

posted: 20 May 2011 13:42

from:

David R
 
Hatfield Heath - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Please include me too.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to the PC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the PC
d) The PC has internet access.

Regards
David R

posted: 20 May 2011 14:10

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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I have now replaced the TDV download with a proper Windows installer program to make things easier.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 20 May 2011 16:59

from:

Alan McMillan
 
Edinburgh - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I would like to be a member of the Templot Development Group.

I can confirm that:

a. I will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on my own computer.

and

b. the computer on which I will install the code is my own personal property and under my full control.

and

c. before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, I will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.

and

d. the computer has access to the internet.

Thank you.

Regards

 

Alan McMillan

Last edited on 20 May 2011 17:00 by Alan McMillan
posted: 21 May 2011 08:50

from:

its_all_downhill
 
North Yorkshire - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Please would you include me too.

I confirm that :-

a) I will not share the code with anybody else.
b) Nobody else has access to my vPC
c) I will delete all Templot code and work before disposing of the vPC
d) The vPC has internet access.

p.s I am running on a mac with a VM if that makes a difference?

Regards
Tom

posted: 21 May 2011 09:03

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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its_all_downhill wrote:
p.s I am running on a mac with a VM if that makes a difference?
Hi Tom,

Assuming that means you are using Windows, it should be fine. Please let me know if not, as there are many Templot users on Macs nowadays.

If you mean you are using Linux/Wine/Crossover you are welcome to try it and report back, but I don't want to get bogged down in any problems on Wine at this stage.

Thanks for joining. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 21 May 2011 12:43

from:

its_all_downhill
 
North Yorkshire - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin, Yes I have XP running on Virtualbox VM perfectly on a Macbook Air, and Templot works fine..
Tom

posted: 22 Jul 2011 17:17

from:

Geoff Cook
 
Stoke On Trent - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I would like to be a member of the Templot Development Group.

I can confirm that:

a. I will not share the downloaded code with anyone or distribute it or copy it anywhere other than on my own computer.

and

b. the computer on which I will install the code is my own personal property and under my full control.

and

c. before selling, lending out, disposing of or otherwise ceasing to have access to the computer, I will delete all of the downloaded code from the computer.

and

d. the computer has access to the internet.

Thank you.

Regards


 

Geoff Cook


posted: 22 Jul 2011 17:32

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Thanks Geoff. You are now purple. :)

TDV download and instructions are here:

 topic_1500&forum_id=18

regards,

Martin.

posted: 22 Jul 2011 19:24

from:

gsmorris
 
 

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Hi All

Have been using the beta for a wile now. It is very nice but let Martin get it to his comfort before all play. I really should do more in the way of feed back. All I can say is that if you have used templet for a while it is quite intuitive in the templet way!

As for two class users heaven forbid. the product is just too good for that. However, let the bugs be sorted. They nearly are. Then the next version is so much better in many ways and the added functionality , I am only just getting to look at

Keep up the good work and don't let us make you move faster than you feel comfortable with. The wait is going to be well worth it. Irregular crossings is only part of the treat. The new f7 is great and platforms helps a lot.

George Morris



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