Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1687K-check rail setting
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posted: 16 Nov 2011 19:28

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

It seems a day when things are going rather strange. :?

I was just, a short while ago, adjusting the K wing and check rails of a half diamond template in the TDV, when I found the check rail did not adjust correctly.

Now what I did, was the following:

First I changed the length of the wing rail using the new K-crossing options menu, from 185.0 ins to 180.0 ins (the LNWR wing & check rails both being 15ft joint to joint & tip to tip respectively), when I clicked OK the wing rail changed to what seemed the correct position  (and was in fact perfectly OK when measured with the ruler).

I then changed the check rail using the same menu (the new K-crossing options menu), I changed the data from 185.0 inches to 180 inches, but when I clicked OK the rail changed length, but appeared to be shorter than the wing rail and did not line up with the wing rail joint as expected.

I then checked the data using Adjust check rails menu, by clicking the DS4 label and looking at the information in the pop up screen, I found the value for the half diamond check rail was set at 81.5 ins when it should have been set to 90 ins.

So I changed the setting to 90 ins using this menu, and when I clicked OK it changed the template check rail length to coincide with the wing rail as expected.

I then re-checked the data showing in the K-crossing options menu and it remained as I had originally set it at 180 inches.
It’s a mystery why the check rail did not change to the required setting in the new K-crossing options menu in the first instance.

I was just wondering if it might be some interaction between the two menus, perhaps one is overriding the other if they are not set to the same values, or if it depends upon which one (menu data that is) is read last by the program, just a thought.

Alternatively, it may well be some sort of momentary glitch on my system, but just thought I had better report the incident.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 16 Nov 2011 20:41

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian,

The new check rail adjustments modify the basic dimensions set via the real menu.

If you change those basic dimensions after making such an adjustment, you must cancel the previous now unwanted modifying adjustment.

After changing the dimension in the real menu (or via the unadjusted settings... button below), you should have selected the relevant rail end and then clicked the reset this rail end button, or else clicked the reset all button. All the adjustments would then be cancelled and the check rails would be restored to the set dimensions:

2_161522_280000000.png2_161522_280000000.png

The real problem here is of course that I haven't yet written the full help notes for this dialog. I'm sorry about that. If the program is not working as described above please let me know. In the meantime I have removed the word "error" from the subject line of this topic.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Nov 2011 00:31

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Again many thanks for the prompt , and very detailed reply.

In future, I will follow your instructions in this posting, or as and when the help notes are available in the program.


Martin Wynne wrote:

The real problem here is of course that I haven't yet written the full help notes for this dialog. I'm sorry about that. If the program is not working as described above please let me know. In the meantime I have removed the word "error" from the subject line of this topic.

I think here, not only is it a lack of notes that caused my query, but it may also be because there are two methods (different menus) of changing the check rail length.

Now, in my somewhat logical mind, I considered that because there are two menus each of which contains a data entry which must be separately stored in the program, because one stores a value that is the data for a full diamond length check rail, and the other only stores the data value for a half diamond check rail (single template) then, depending upon the data store that is accessed last, that is the value that is used to modify the template display.
However, not knowing how your program functions, I clearly cannot comment further.


As I have stated above, I will just follow the instructions.

Whilst we are on the subject of diamonds, another item has come to light regarding the LNWR drawings, I noted that the tongue rail of the LNWR diamonds have finite lengths, although this is variable depending upon K- Crossing angle, a typical example is a tongue rail length of 15ft for crossings of angle 1 in 7 to 1 in 8, and another example is, 13ft for crossings of 1 in 4 to 1 in 5.
Now this finite tongue rail length means, that there is another joint in that rail before the Vee crossing wing rail joint, making two joints in all between the tip of the tongue and the tip of the Vee wing rail, again this is not a feature in Templot.


At the moment, I can hand mark these extra joints on the template printouts, but it would be nice to have them properly generated in Templot.

Thanks again Martin for the answers to my query.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 17 Nov 2011 01:03

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Brian Nicholls wrote:
Now this finite tongue rail length means, that there is another joint in that rail before the Vee crossing wing rail joint, making two joints in all between the tip of the tongue and the tip of the Vee wing rail, again this is not a feature in Templot.

At the moment, I can hand mark these extra joints on the template printouts, but it would be nice to have them properly generated in Templot.
Hi Brian,

Diamond-crossing point rails vary a lot in length, and in many cases were supplied undrilled, to be cut and drilled on site to fit as required.

You have probably noticed that the relevant menu entry is disabled and marked (nyi) -- not yet implemented.

It would be easy to insert the data I have here into the program as defaults. The difficulty is that you can't just mark a rail joint. The timbering has to be adjusted accordingly so that the timbers each side are at the proper joint spacing of about 24" - 26" centres. A full algorithm to timber half-diamonds needs a lot of work, allowing for 3 joints between the K-crossing and V-crossing for all angle combinations. Unlike the prototype we also have to do that for 00, EM, TT, etc., not to mention narrow-gauge. Already there are two options for the way the timbering supports the point rail tips.

You can add extra joint marks to a template manually using severely shoved timbers -- add a bonus timber and then reduce its width and length to form a thin joint mark. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Nov 2011 16:50

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
You have probably noticed that the relevant menu entry is disabled and marked (nyi) -- not yet implemented.

Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the response.

I had spotted the greyed out menu item, hence my comment “this is not a feature in Templot”, perhaps I should have said it’s not a current feature, knowing the way you spring pleasant surprises on us from time to time. :)

You can add extra joint marks to a template manually using severely shoved timbers -- add a bonus timber and then reduce its width and length to form a thin joint mark. :)

I’m glad you have reminded me of the dodge to reduce a timber down to a single line thickness to add the extra joint marks, as I had forgotten about that, heaven knows, I’ve used it often enough to create the dummy clearance templates to check curve clearances etc. !! :roll:

Regarding my remark about marking up the joint marks, these will be done on the print out, when all timbering has been shoved and is in the correct position including the right spacing at both the joints.

Thanks again for the memory jog, :thumb:

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.




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