Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1701ADMIN: Templot changes
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posted: 27 Nov 2011 18:41

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Dear all,

The price of a Templot licence has remained unchanged for over 10 years. That means it is now much cheaper in real terms than it was, despite the many new features introduced over that time.

I've allowed this situation to develop because I'm very aware of the deficiencies in Templot as a proper software product -- especially with regard to the confusing mess the user documentation is in. New users have been starting with the 10-year-old version 074b, despite the availability of much improved later versions, simply because 074b is the only version with a reasonably full set of user docs.

But I've reached the end of my tether in trying to explain this over and over again in emails to users, despite the fact that it is fully explained in my order confirmation letter. If we carry on as we are I shall be ill. There is simply no way in the short term that I can find the time to update and re-write all the docs and tutorials, which would be necessary to create a full upgraded version for new users.

So I have some announcements to make:



1. With immediate effect version 074b and all other paid-for versions of Templot are withdrawn.

2. In a few weeks time I shall release a new version of Templot based on the current Templot Development Version (TDV) which will be free for use by anyone. :)

3. I shall be adding a "donations" button to the Templot web site. Hopefully users who find Templot useful will want to donate something towards the costs of developing it, creating the videos and tutorials, and maintaining the web sites.

4. There will be no more direct email or PM support for Templot of any description. Emails and PMs to me asking for help or for any other information about Templot will be ignored. I'm sorry about that, but if you want help with downloading, installing or using Templot, please, please, please, ask here on the Templot Club forum. That's what it is here for.



"Free for use by anyone" does not mean that I am giving Templot away free. It remains my intellectual property and copyright, and all use will be governed by the licence terms.

There will now be a period of a few weeks in which Templot is not available to new users. This is in fairness to those who have recently purchased a paid-for version. Existing paid-for versions of Templot will continue to run for as long as you wish on your current computer. But please note there will be no more direct email support as mentioned above, and except temporarily for TDV, I have stopped issuing lock-release codes. The new version will not require a lock-release code.

Hopefully this will be a fresh start for Templot which will allow me to concentrate my time on developing the program without the obligations of supporting paying customers.

My apologies if any part of this statement contradicts anything which I have said previously.

regards to all,

Martin.

posted: 27 Nov 2011 19:42

from:

Les G
 
 

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I think that Martin is being wise to consider his health. :thumb: It would not be good for him or for Templot users if he were to be forced to give it up completely.

I, for one, have been well impressed by Martin's patience in answering so many queries, some of which could have been avoided if the user had only carried out a basic search of the Templot Companion before crying for help.

Given the new focus, and the ongoing support for the TDV project, I wonder if some of the experienced users who have already shown tech. doc. writing skills, could reduce the burden by preparing some of the draft material for the user guides? 

 As editor in chief, Martin would obviously need to determine some priorities.

What do other Templotters think?

LesG

posted: 27 Nov 2011 20:25

from:

Pete Williams
 
 

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Martin,

Although I've not made a lot of use of Templot I have watched developments and queries over the months I have had the program, and I think your help and advice to us all has been second to none, and quite frankly I'm amazed you've managed so well for so long.

Thanks Martin

Pete Williams.

posted: 27 Nov 2011 20:36

from:

George Leaf
 
Vine Grove - Kentucky USA

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RE Changes:

I happen to be a robot and automated test equipment technical writer.

If I can help in any way let me know. If not not a problem.

Thank you for a fine tool. Even if you look at it as an unfinished  work in progress. It provides exactly the functionality I need for custom switch pieces.

Best

George Leaf

posted: 28 Nov 2011 10:16

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin.
I have to say that I absolutely agree with the decisions you have taken. There are several comments / observations I would like to make.
For some time now I have felt, and I know others feel the same, that you should make a positive effort to take a back seat in replying to forum queries and concentrate on the development side of things. I can totally understand why you would want to answer people’s queries as it is your baby so to speak and no one else understands the program as well as you. I also fear that your desire to provide an answer so quickly may discourage other forum users from doing so, and thus you only make things worse for yourself. Believe me there are many of us out here who would willingly help and it is my fond hope that you will now let us.
A project such as this has a habit of growing like Topsie and before long you find you have created a monster that is growing out of control. As you say Templot has been around for a long time now and no one else would provide the level of support you have for such early versions of the software. I can certainly appreciate the work involved in writing the help pages. I have been trying to write a beginners guide for version 0.91c, yes I know it will be out of date soon, but one has to start somewhere. I circulated the draft version to several people for their comments and am now trying to incorporate some of the suggested improvements into the text. This is proving more of a challenge than writing it in the first place, so the task of updating all of the help pages in Templot does not bare thinking about.
Having made the above comments I have to say that I am extremely grateful for the help you have given me recently with my two problems, even though they ultimately turned out to be my end, at least the printer problem, which has been driving me mad for years, now seems to have been resolved and resulted in my being able to share the solution with others, which is in my view exactly what forum is for.
Finally I would like to record my gratitude to you for providing us with what is an absolutely superb track design tool with no equal. I found version 0.78e more than adequate for my needs and enabled me to design and subsequently construct some remarkably complex track formations but each subsequent version gets better. Yes it takes some getting into, but if you want to achieve something with Templot, the option is usually there, it is just a matter of discovering it.  I have nothing but admiration for what you have achieved.
Tony.
 

posted: 28 Nov 2011 10:55

from:

Raymond
 
Bexhill-on-sea - United Kingdom

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Dear Martin,

As a long time user of Templot I can only applaud your decision to concentrate on the program and stop responding to every little request that comes your way (I am aware that I have been one of the guilty ones in the past!).

When I first tried it out years ago I thought it was good, now it is great and permits of almost anything one may want in the way of trackwork.  The quantity of stuff still unseen must be high too.  I only found out about the facility for measuring how much track is in a plan the other day thanks to a posting by someone else and find I need almost 240 metres of rail for the current plan.  Now I shall have to investigate further and make sure I can actually afford to buy the materials to build it all!

I, like others before me, think that the expertise available on this Forum is more than adequate for learners and far better than any other software I use.

I hope you find the extra time to yourself enjoyable and productive.

Regards

Raymond

posted: 28 Nov 2011 11:59

from:

Paul
 
Sydney - Australia

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I don't think you should do it for nothing! All you need is a reel idiot guide for people like me who know nothing about rail or model rail building and a good description of the terminology and abbreviations. What is a TS and which side is the turn out side if that is what it means. Most times I seem to find a good definition to a term is better than a ream of explanation. In spite of the fact that I have now shown my ignorance, I am quite proud of the fact that although I have only just bought a product that is about to go free,it remains the best purchase I have made in the very short time I've been in modeling hobby :D

posted: 28 Nov 2011 12:16

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul.
This is precisely the sort of thing I am hoping my beginners guide will do, see my comment above. I really must press on with it and post it soon. Other things have been occuping my time recently as you may have noticed. MS is Main Side and refers to the mainroad track side of the turnout / point, TS is the Turnout Side and refers to the side to which the diverging road is going, i.e. a Crossover will normally consist of a pair of turnouts joined at their Turnout Sides.
Tony.
Last edited on 28 Nov 2011 12:25 by Tony W
posted: 28 Nov 2011 12:21

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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I wholeheartedly agree with Martins decision regarding his own input and support for Templot users. I cannot even begin to imagine how much work he puts in behind the scenes with the continued development of Templot and also having the time to field queries and questions.
As eluded, we have a forum with some very knowledgeable users here now who I am sure are more than capable of taking over the role and lending a guiding hand to newbies.
My involvement goes back to v0.69 (last century if you need to know) and although I had a few years away from railway modelling, Martin provided me with a new lock release code without question and mentioned I should throw the CD which 0.69 came on away :-)
Thankfully with Templot, I have found there are a number of ways one can build up complex pointwork without having to resort to some of the tutorials, which shows how flexible Templot is as a tool.

Martin, keep up the good work.

Now, I must go and find the post which Raymond has mentioned to work out total rail length for Plan Y !

Regards

Ian

posted: 28 Nov 2011 12:28

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul wrote:
All you need is a real idiot guide for people like me who know nothing about rail or model rail building and a good description of the terminology and abbreviations. What is a TS and which side is the turn out side if that is what it means.
Hi Paul,

This diagram is on the "making a start" page of the Templot Companion. It shows the meaning of MS and TS:

2_280716_410000000.png2_280716_410000000.png

(Or it will be again when I switch the site back on later today. :) )

I am quite proud of the fact that although I have only just bought a product that is about to go free, it remains the best purchase I have made in the very short time I've been in modeling hobby :D
Many thanks for the kind words.  :thumb:

regards,

Martin.

posted: 28 Nov 2011 16:23

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Dear Martin,

I am very saddened to read that things have come to a head, and that your work load is causing you health problems, it is not however, unexpected, but am pleased that you are taking steps to correct the situation.

I, like others, applaud your decision to concentrate on the programming rather than keep answering questions put by others, and in particular to look after your health (and sanity), that is absolutely paramount.

I can only say that it has been, and still is, a pleasure using Templot, which is a superb, second to none, tool for railway modellers.
The advances and improvements made to the program, even over the short 18 months or so I’ve been using it, have been very dramatic and have made life much easier to cope with the more complex formations one inevitably meets when designing a layout.

I too thank you for a most brilliant tool, and hope you will be happy in it’s further development. :thumb:

I think the best way I can sum this up is to say, that it would have been very great tragedy if Templot had fallen by the way side due to ill health having overtaken you Martin, and I’m very glad you are wise enough to see reason in this matter.

Templot has most certainly given me a new lease on life, when initially wondering what I was going to do in my retirement, after sorting the garden and DIY jobs that had lingered for previous years undone.

Regarding your mention of ‘donation’ for the development costs, I for one, would be most willing to contribute to that, (providing it’s not by PayPal, still haven’t got over that yet, perhaps never will). :)

I would gladly like to help in any way I can to ease the work load, I have, in the past, written technical documents, and specification requirements for complex systems, and don’t think I lost the touch yet, so please let me know what you would like me to do.
In addition, if I can help with any drawings, diagrams and graphics, again, don’t hesitate to ask, just point me in the direction.

Please do take care of yourself, and “chin up” as the old saying goes.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 28 Nov 2011 19:16

from:

Tim Dubya
 
Bath - United Kingdom

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Fair play Martin. Look after number one! :thumb:

Cheers
Tim

posted: 28 Nov 2011 22:30

from:

Paul
 
Sydney - Australia

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Paul wrote:
All you need is a real idiot guide for people like me who know nothing about rail or model rail building and a good description of the terminology and abbreviations. What is a TS and which side is the turn out side if that is what it means.
Hi Paul,

This diagram is on the "making a start" page of the Templot Companion. It shows the meaning of MS and TS:

2_280716_410000000.png2_280716_410000000.png

(Or it will be again when I switch the site back on later today. :) )

I am quite proud of the fact that although I have only just bought a product that is about to go free, it remains the best purchase I have made in the very short time I've been in modeling hobby :D
Many thanks for the kind words.  :thumb:

regards,

Martin.
Hi Martin

That's exactly what I mean is it the main road because it is longer, straighter, on the right hand side or because it is bent to the left, what if the turnout was bent to right, can a main run to a dead end siding while the turn out side actually runs to the rest of the layout, ( main line maybe)?
The cure for ignorance is education, the tonic is well defined terminology.
The product is otherwise amazing and I do wish Tony W well on the project and please there are those of us who are totally illiterate when it comes to track work, for me well defined terminology I think would cut out half the queries. If I could speak the lingo I would do it.
In the meantime I am drafting the menus onto a spread sheet as I go along, if I knew how I would cut and paste them into Excel.

In the meantime I shall continue to join bits of track to see where it goes.

Cheers, Paul

posted: 28 Nov 2011 23:41

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul wrote:
That's exactly what I mean is it the main road because it is longer, straighter, on the right hand side or because it is bent to the left, what if the turnout was bent to right, can a main run to a dead end siding while the turn out side actually runs to the rest of the layout, ( main line maybe)?
Hi Paul,

Oh I see. :)

You want to start from the position of someone who knows nothing about railways, modelling them, or building model track? Before you even get to Templot?

You do realise what you are asking? It would be a mammoth task, even if we stick only to UK practice down the years.

It is the main road because it follows the ruling curve. That means it is dead straight from end end, or follows a fixed radius curve, or follows a defined transition curve. That in turn means that vehicles can run along it without a speed restriction, at the maximum speed allowed for the whole line.

On the other hand, vehicles following the diverging turnout road are suddenly deflected to the left or right as they reach the switch when running in a facing direction, or leave the switch when running in a trailing direction. Consequently they are subject to a speed restriction when taking the turnout road. The switch is the part of a turnout comprising the moving points (the movable rails machined to a sharp point). The facing direction is the direction giving a choice of routes, i.e. from left to right in the above diagram. The left-hand end in the diagram is called the "toe" end of a turnout. The right-hand end is called the "heel" end of a turnout. (Imagine a side view of a human foot.)

The turnout road can diverge to the left or right from the main road, regardless of whether the main road curves to the left or right. The direction in which the turnout road diverges determines the "hand" of the turnout, left-hand or right-hand (LH or RH) again regardless of whether the main road curves to the left or right.

This means that in some cases the turnout road can be less curved than the main road, like this:

2_281820_150000000.png2_281820_150000000.png

Here you can see that the lower road is the main road following a constant curve.

The upper road is the turnout road, making this a left-hand turnout even though the main road is curving to the right, and even though the turnout road is curved less than the main road. If you zoom in on the switch points, you would see that there is still a discontinuity in the line of the rails where the wheels are suddenly deflected away from the ruling main road curve. So there is still a lower speed restriction over the turnout road, despite its appearing to be the easier curve.

Generally in use the main road follows the running lines, and the turnout road leads to loops, sidings, crossovers, and other connections.

If both roads are running lines, for example in a double junction, a much longer switch than this would be used, so that the deflection angle at the points is much smaller. But there is still usually a reduced speed limit over the subsidiary route. Modern high-speed junctions use complex mathematical curves to reduce the deflection to an absolute minimum.

Also, curved running lines are normally canted (superelevated -- the outer rail is raised higher than the inner rail). So in the situation above the turnout road would have an adverse cant, again leading to a severe speed restriction.   

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Nov 2011 13:26

from:

allanferguson
 
Fife - United Kingdom

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I wonder whether it is necessary for those of us who use, and enthuse, about Templot to be more careful about how we promote it, by making the point that an understanding of prototype trackwork is really necessary before venturing into the design field of Templot. I suspect that if users had this understanding, then 50 percent of the queries would be unnecessary. It shouldn't be necessary for Martin to have to spend ages explaining the difference between Main side and Turnout side.

Allan F

Allan

posted: 29 Nov 2011 16:25

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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allanferguson wrote:
I wonder whether it is necessary for those of us who use, and enthuse, about Templot to be more careful about how we promote it, by making the point that an understanding of prototype trackwork is really necessary before venturing into the design field of Templot. I suspect that if users had this understanding, then 50 percent of the queries would be unnecessary. It shouldn't be necessary for Martin to have to spend ages explaining the difference between Main side and Turnout side.

Allan F

Allan
Allan

Personally I don't think such an understanding is really necessary, and promoting that idea may well put people off who would be quite happy with Templot. There may be a whole host of reasons why some take to Templot like a duck to water, and others struggle. For example, some people, either through experience in other fields or through natural ability, readily fill in gaps in their own knowledge; at the other extreme some really need somebody else to do everything for them. There is a learning curve to using Templot, some may hardly notice it, others find it too steep.

I wonder if a lot of the problem is with people who come to Templot with an already formed grand plan in their own mind. E.g. they want to model Victoria, with the trackwork faithfully reproduced. And get it in the spare bedroom. By next week. If such people cast their ambitions aside and in the first instance produced something simple, a modest branch line terminus comes to mind, they'd learn all the basics but with a manageable number of problems to overcome (even a modest scheme has a certain degree of challenge). It's the willingness to work things out which is critical. And as far as Templot support is concerned to direct questions at this forum as a whole, not aim them at Martin the whole time.

Cheers
Nigel

posted: 30 Nov 2011 00:14

from:

Paul
 
Sydney - Australia

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Hi Martin

Gee! thanks for that Martin I really did not expect you to give me such a full explanation it is certainly very enlightening. I honestly wasn't expecting a reply at all as this not really the right forum for it. I was merely trying point to a problem some of us rank amateurs have and no disrespect to you, but I think this you take your duty too your customers far too muck to hart, which is most probably what drew me to your site in the first place. That kind of service is truly forgotten in this day and age.
I do think a simple basic dictionary of  terms will go a long way to alleviate this, and give blokes like me a bit more confidance to ask stupid questions on the open forum and get the input of more experienced modellers. On the other hand I may only be speaking for myself and maybe I am the only totally "railway ignorant" with the pluck to take on something like this in your experience. And Hay no one has ever given me such a simple detailed understandable explanation on any subject ever. I am just about through "Peg And Notch" and am keen to get back to the track plan tutorial. :thumb:

Cheers Paul

posted: 30 Nov 2011 00:38

from:

Paul
 
Sydney - Australia

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allanferguson wrote:
I wonder whether it is necessary for those of us who use, and enthuse, about Templot to be more careful about how we promote it, by making the point that an understanding of prototype trackwork is really necessary before venturing into the design field of Templot. I suspect that if users had this understanding, then 50 percent of the queries would be unnecessary. It shouldn't be necessary for Martin to have to spend ages explaining the difference between Main side and Turnout side.

Allan F

Allan
I don't know about the UK but here model rail is a bit of a dying art and I must say I have had much encouragement from my local club and i think this kind of elitism may not be affordable.

Ignorance can be treated with education stupidity is criminal.

Sorry Paul

posted: 1 Dec 2011 16:29

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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Martin, I have every confidence in you. I am sure whatever method you choose to control your software will work for most people.
I understand your frustration, I feel the same when I read questions on this and other forums, people do not want to put any effort into learning. Track geometry is an extremely complex subject. You have made it possible for a large number of people to enjoy designing trackwork. Sometimes it is soothing other times frustrating but the help available on here from reading previous emails is invaluable and there are enough experienced helpful members to answer most questions. It doesn't need any more input from you personally unless you have a particular desire. Please go and do what you want to do and enjoy it nobody will die on here if an answer is not immediately solved and it may well encourage a few more people to think for themselves. I believe from my experience on here that you will do whatever is right.

All the best Godders

PS I don't understand you not wanting to get paid you deserve some reward for you efforts and in other fields your price would be considered pitifully low.

posted: 1 Dec 2011 17:08

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Godfrey Earnshaw wrote:
PS I don't understand you not wanting to get paid you deserve some reward for you efforts and in other fields your price would be considered pitifully low.
Hi Godders,

Naturally I like to see some reward for the work I put into Templot. I'm hoping that the donations will at least cover the costs and maybe allow me an occasional bar of chocolate too. :)

In fact a provisional donations page is already up and running:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/templot_donate.htm

What I can no longer accept however are the support obligations which come with paying customers -- the endless emails, the questions about Peco track, the arguments about refunds, the dubious requests for extra lock-release codes, and all the rest. It has worn me out and I just don't have time for it any more.

If Templot is free for anyone to use or not as they wish I can ignore all that and have a much quieter life concentrating on the code, and helping only those who have taken the trouble to understand what Templot is for -- and have joined Templot Club to talk about it.

Thanks everyone for all the kind words in this topic.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 2 Dec 2011 10:58

from:

richard_t
 
Nr. Spalding, South Holland - United Kingdom

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The donation page looks like it's working. But like George, I'd just like confirmation that the money will make it to the right place!

All the best; look after yourself, and have a Merry Christmas and New Year (yes it's that time of the year again!)

Richard.

posted: 2 Dec 2011 11:32

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi George, Richard,

Yes the donations page is working, the money won't vanish into outer space :) :

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/templot_donate.htm

However, I'm not really looking for donations from existing users who have already paid for Templot. It's primarily for new users of the free version. I have already supplied a few free copies of TDV.

Thanks for the kind words.

Martin.

posted: 2 Dec 2011 11:48

from:

LSWRArt
 
Antibes - France

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Having just joined the forum and not yet having Templot (v2) can I ask:
- can Martin please give an idea of how much we should donate to make this worthwhile for him to continue? I have no idea what he thinks is fair (£20? / £50?) I do not know how much it cost in the past to buy so do not have any guideline as to prices?
Thanks, Art

posted: 2 Dec 2011 12:02

from:

mixtemp
 
Chester Le Street - United Kingdom

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I have had Templot for a fairly long time but only started using it recently.

I paid for my version and have had lots of help from both Martin and other Templot users. Notwithstanding that I fully agree with Martin's approach and am at least glad the program will not cease to exist. I will continue to use it.

Thank you very much Martin.

Mick S
Durham

Les G wrote:
I think that Martin is being wise to consider his health. :thumb: It would not be good for him or for Templot users if he were to be forced to give it up completely.

I, for one, have been well impressed by Martin's patience in answering so many queries, some of which could have been avoided if the user had only carried out a basic search of the Templot Companion before crying for help.

Given the new focus, and the ongoing support for the TDV project, I wonder if some of the experienced users who have already shown tech. doc. writing skills, could reduce the burden by preparing some of the draft material for the user guides? 

 As editor in chief, Martin would obviously need to determine some priorities.

What do other Templotters think?

LesG

posted: 2 Dec 2011 15:24

from:

LSWRArt
 
Antibes - France

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Sorry, I also forgot to ask roughly when martin thinks the new version of software will be available to download?
Thanks, Art

posted: 2 Dec 2011 16:28

from:

Les G
 
 

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LSWRArt wrote:
Sorry, I also forgot to ask roughly when martin thinks the new version of software will be available to download?
Thanks, Art
Art,

If you look again at Martin's first post on this thread, you will find that it is expected within a few weeks.

Meanwhile, there is much to be gained from the other Templot threads, as others have pointed out.

cheerydoo

Les G

posted: 2 Dec 2011 16:30

from:

dave turner
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,

As an intermittent though fascinated user of Templot I can only agree that your health must come first.

Dave

posted: 2 Dec 2011 18:00

from:

Gordon S
 
 

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Martin, as I said to you via email I have only just picked up this thread. I am not surprised by it's content on two fronts. The first being that your support has been outstanding in the few years I have had a Templot licence. Not only have you responded quickly, but the content of that response was very comprehensive. The second is that in total agreement with many other users, you have created the best track design software on the market, bar none and should be very proud of what you have achieved. 

Along with many others, I would be devasted is we were to lose Templot completely, but your health must come first. I have nothing but admiration for your staying power. How you haven't given short shrift to some of the questions on here (some of which came from me) is beyond me.....

All the very best to you and a sincere thank you for providing the best layout design package ever.

Regards


Gordon S
Last edited on 2 Dec 2011 18:01 by Gordon S
posted: 3 Dec 2011 01:11

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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LSWRArt wrote:
I do not know how much it cost in the past to buy so do not have any guideline as to prices?
Hi Art,

A standard licence for Templot was £46.50 downloaded. It had been at that price for over 10 years until last month.

For comparison, here are the approximate current download prices of some other model track software:

3rd PlanIt       $125 = £80?
WinRail          £50 and £70
S21-ModellGleis  E64 = £55?
Cadrail          $68 = £45?
AnyRail          £35
Trax3            £17.50 (including signalling book)
XTrackCad        free


None of these are directly equivalent to Templot of course. The only two which are suitable for handbuilt track construction are S21 and Trax3.



There have been several generous donations today, for which many thanks. I wasn't expecting donations from users who have already paid for Templot, so such votes of thanks are much appreciated. Thank you.

It does feel odd and a little uncomfortable to be in effect asking for money. Almost like standing in the street cap in hand. :)  But it is an established way of working for small software developers to provide their software free of charge and invite donations from satisfied users. It will be interesting to see how it works out long term.

Thanks again,

Martin.

posted: 3 Dec 2011 09:58

from:

NOELFIXIT
 
 

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Hello all.

I bought templot back in december 2009 and have been really happy with it its been a great help in my track building but now i have got a big problem, i was running the 074 version but my computer crashed and is beyond repair so i wanted to download it again and get the licence key only to find its no longer avaliable which leaves me with a bit of a problem. I do understand martins concerns as it is a huge program and it has taken me a long while to get to grips with it but it was the best and most comprehensive track building program ive seen. So the only thing now is to wait for templot2 and have break from track building and catch up with other parts of the layout. Take care martin. Noel.

posted: 3 Dec 2011 10:10

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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NOELFIXIT wrote:
So the only thing now is to wait for templot2
Hi Noel,

I have moved you to the development group so that you can download the Templot Development Version now. The TDV download and instructions are here:

 topic 1500

regards,

Martin.


posted: 5 Dec 2011 23:26

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello,
I joined the Templot club some time ago with every intention of purchasing.I had held back from doing so on a number of levels.The first was I required the ability to produce double curved junctions which I had understood to be in the process of development and to be released in a later version.Another factor is I use Linux with which I enjoy online access with security.I only have an old version of Windows ME on a computer which I intended to use solely for Templot.I had intended to download via my Linux computer and install it to the ME computer. It would be without a connection, simply for security.I am sure most are aware the older versions of windows leave a lot to be desired when it comes to security.I believe computers running XP would be the oldest microsoft version to connect online with adequate security available that would be able to check in.I would hope your change in policy is as successful as it deserves to be.I can name two products that have been successful when reliant on donations.One is JMRI which I am sure many will all ready know about.Another is PCLinuxOS a linux distribution that relies on financial donations and forum help from and for its users.Another aspect about the PCLinux model is the rolling update method it uses.
Improvements updates and bugs are all dealt with by volounteers/members.I know Templot is closed source but I believe some of the same ideas used in the open source community would work just as well.Looking forward to the release of Templot2.
Trevor Walling
:)

posted: 6 Dec 2011 12:00

from:

grahamroberts
 
 

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Trevor Walling wrote:
... I use Linux with which I enjoy online access with security.I only have an old version of Windows ME on a computer which I intended to use solely for Templot.I had intended to download via my Linux computer and install it to the ME computer...

Hi Trevor,

In case it's of interest, I run Templot (0.91) on a laptop under the Wine emulator on Linux (Ubuntu Oneiric) without problems, and I am a complete Unix novice. There is some kind of glitch when entering data values - at worst, it can take ten or fifteen seconds for the window to appear and then to enter each value, and if you try to be too clever with type-ahead it may lock up the Ubuntu GUI - but this is such a small inconvenience I have not attempted to trace why it happens or fix it: seems pretty obvious it's the emulator and if I knew more about Wine it could probably be fixed by setting some parameters at startup. Life's too short, and a little patience works just as well!

Martin - thanks for the Templot2 initiative (and for all these years of Templot so far) - I hope it works to free up your time. Regarding the online donation facility, you could always suggest users should pop a small fee in the collecting box every time they finish building a real turnout. It would be too cynical to suggest that the tin would fill very slowly! and who knows, it might actually incentivise people to get the soldering iron out. The urge to give thanks works in mysterious ways.

best regards
Graham Roberts

posted: 6 Dec 2011 18:53

from:

Pete Brownlow
 
 

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Hello Martin,

I think you really should try my suggestion for a mail rule to delete/autoreply all Templot emails and direct the users here - so you never see another Templot email in your inbox.

I'm sorry to hear you feel weary about it - but that is natural when you have worked on it, perhaps to the exlusion of all else.  I've been there myself on development projects in the past.

I do think that the decision to make it free for non-commerical use is a good one, and I hope that the donations will support it. 

Then, perhaps once V2 is out, the cure for your Templot weariness might be to have a completely Templot free break - leave the support to others on here for a month or two over Christmas and beyond. (Maybe a good moment to set up that email rule).

I know from experience myself that when a project becomes all consuming of your time, you do grow weary of it and a break is often vital for your sanity.

Here is my suggestion for the Autoreply, just food for thought:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This an automatically generated reply.

Please do not reply to this email as you will just get the same reply again.

Thank you for your enquiry in connection with Templot.

Please note that all Templot matters are now dealt with on the Templot Club which can be reached here:

<link to templot club>

If you are requesting an unlock code, please update to the latest version which no longer requires an unlock code. This can be downloaded here:

<link to Templot V2 download page>

This version is free for non-commericial  use but, if you like the program, then donations are very welcome to support continued development.  Donations can be made here:

<link to donation page>


Regards,  

etc...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just imagine - never see another Templot email ever again!!

What do you think?

Regards,

Pete

posted: 6 Dec 2011 19:34

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Martin

I think your proposal is totally realistic, and the right one. I for one will be pressing the Donate button, and I'm sure many of us who have been using payed-for versions for years will do so as well; after all it's in our interests. I never thought the original payment was more than a token contribution to the pre-release versions anyway, and fully expected to pay more in due course.

Coding can quickly shift from being an enjoyable exercise to an increasingly weighty millstone very easily, and cutting out all the tasks except those you feel inspired to have a go at is surely the way to go. Ditching the admin/email side is surely necessary and right.

Best wishes
Nigel

posted: 7 Dec 2011 05:17

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Many thanks for all the kind words. I very much appreciate the support I receive from so many Templot users. Thank you also for the several generous donations already received, from users who have paid for Templot once before. Unexpected and much appreciated -- making an excellent start for the new donations-based support fund for Templot. 

I'm hoping to have another TDV update available later this week. It will no longer require a lock-release code and the internet checking for new updates will be removed. This means it will probably be the last TDV update before the public release of Templot2 -- the new free version of Templot -- which I hope to have ready in another couple of weeks.

Unfortunately there will not now be time to include some of the remaining unfinished features. The unfinished help texts will be replaced with links to the relevant topic on the new Templot Companion web site. I must have Templot2 released  soon because I anticipate not having much time for Templot in the first months of next year, and at present there is no download available for intending new users.

Templot2 will be entirely free without restriction. So I'm hoping all existing users will upgrade, and consequently there will be no further need for me to issue lock-release codes for the previous paid-for versions.

regards,

Martin.
Last edited on 10 Dec 2011 09:44 by Martin Wynne
posted: 7 Dec 2011 17:47

from:

gsmorris
 
 

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Sounds very good can't Waite new project pending using all the new features!:thumb:

posted: 7 Dec 2011 23:08

from:

couzenss
 
Bradford - United Kingdom

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Martin,
I have just picked up your changes to Templot. I have used Templot for about a year now and although it took me some time to get into it, I am really pleased that I kept going. I raised a few questions early which were answered almost by return for which I was most gratful. I have now drawn up my fiddle yard, produced the templates and made all the turnout.This is now wired up and I have started testing with all the turnouts working well.
I could not have achieved this without Templot and please accept my heartfelt appreciation.
I think Templot is a great tool and I have suggested to a number friends that this can help them and some have already joined.
Thanks for all your help
Stuart

posted: 8 Dec 2011 07:36

from:

PaulTownsend
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
.
  I must have Templot2 released  soon because I anticipate not having much time for Templot in the first months of next year, and at present there is no download available for intending new users.

Martin.
Amazing, Martin has found time to have a life outside of Templot!

I support your chosen way forward and add my thanks for all your efforts for us.

posted: 8 Dec 2011 16:09

from:

Peter Midwinter
 
Nr. Caernarfon - United Kingdom

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Hi Admin

I dont know if this is the right way to ask to be moved to the development group of users, so that I will be able to download the current development version of Templot (TDV).

Martin sent me an e.mail to say that I should ask to be moved so I hope that I not wasting somebodies time doing it this way.  Sorry if I am but would be grateful if someone could point me in the right direction.
Regards
Peter Midwinter(trains12)

posted: 8 Dec 2011 16:43

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Thanks Peter. You are now purple. :)

The current TDV download and instructions are here:

 topic_1500&forum_id=18

However, there will be an update later this week with different
instructions, so you will need to download again then.

Also, please read the TDV access conditions here:

 topic 1510

regards,

Martin.

posted: 8 Dec 2011 19:03

from:

nickom
 
 

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Hi Martin,
Would it be possible to make my download access purple please.

Regarding your decision, fair play to you it can't have been an easy decision but no doubt the right one.

I have to say having read some of the persistent queries in the past ground me down, particularly about the written documentation, goodness knows what it did to you.

I just hope the value existing users see in the software and the willingness to donate transfers over to new users.

Best regards
Nick

posted: 8 Dec 2011 19:35

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Thanks Nick. You are now purple. :)

The current TDV download and instructions are here:

 topic_1500&forum_id=18

However, there will be an update later this week with different instructions, so you will need to download again then.

Also, please read the TDV access conditions here:

 topic_1510&forum_id=1

regards,

Martin.

posted: 12 Dec 2011 13:09

from:

Kipford
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Martin
I have been using Templot 091C on my work Laptop for a few years, which has no access privelidges, running it all the time from a USB Stick. I have TDV on the stick, which runs fine on the laptop hooked into my home wi-fi, however at work I am getting an error message saying:

The page you requested was not found on this web server. This could be for a variety of reasons, including:
You followed a broken or out-of-date link.
You entered the URL for the page incorrectly.
The page no longer exists.
If you followed a broken link, please inform the owner of the referring page.


So I am now stumped any ideas as I do the majority of my layout design in my lunchtimes?

Dave

posted: 12 Dec 2011 13:23

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Kipford wrote:
I have TDV on the stick, which runs fine on the laptop hooked into my home wi-fi, however at work I am getting an error message saying:

The page you requested was not found on this web server. This could be for a variety of reasons, including:
You followed a broken or out-of-date link.
You entered the URL for the page incorrectly.
The page no longer exists.
If you followed a broken link, please inform the owner of the referring page.
Hi Dave,

For what URL? What is the address giving this error?

Have you downloaded the latest TDV update?

 topic_1500&forum_id=18

Martin.

posted: 12 Dec 2011 20:50

from:

Kipford
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Martin

I have carried some more tests tonight at home on the laptop. Running soley through my home internet connection then TDV loads without problem. However if I try to connect through the work servers I get the same problem and messages as at lunchtime. The attached pikkies show the three error messages I get.1637_121546_150000000.png1637_121546_150000000.png


Then

1637_121547_360000000.png1637_121547_360000000.png


Then

1637_121548_180000000.png1637_121548_180000000.png


Not sure if this means anything to you but I suspect it a work problem, which if it is will not be fixable.

Regards

Dave
Attachment: attach_1270_1701_Web_connection_1.jpg 153

posted: 12 Dec 2011 21:22

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Dave,

Thanks for that, but folks are running ahead of me. The same thing is happening on RMweb.

Can I point out that the TDV is clearly labelled Unfinished? There isn't any problem -- it's just that I haven't done those bits yet. :)

I have now quickly uploaded the missing page to keep your browser happy:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/templot_upgrade.htm

You are seeing that page because TDV is unable to connect to the internet.

Not sure if this means anything to you but I suspect it a work problem, which if it is will not be fixable.
If your work system doesn't allow TDV to connect to the internet I'm afraid you will have to wait until Templot2 is released in a few weeks time. There isn't a problem and there is nothing to be fixed.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 12 Dec 2011 22:52

from:

Kipford
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Martin
Thanks for the response you service is second to none. I will hang on until Templot 2 is out.

Dave



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