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topic: 1802Some basic advice on parts to build a double/single slip in 00-SF
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posted: 22 Jan 2012 11:49

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Chairs

I have now obtained plastic chairs for standard trackwork and the brass crossing nose chairs. These will be assembled on ply sleepers (already bought in strips). I am missing check rail chairs.

Can anyone help with these please?


Do I need any other specialised chairs in the construction?

Tiebars

I have seen that Borgrail offer tiebars but I am not sure about how these are fitted.

Can anyone help me with this?

Track gauges

What would be the minimum set of gauges to use in the construction of the slips? 00-SF

Gauge considerations

I am aware that 00-SF reduces the track gauge and therefore gauge widening on curves must be considered. I am using exactoscale track on the plain track sections and therefore my questions are based on template trackwork only.

Does Templot allow for automatic gauge widening in the template?

What is the minimum curve on 00-SF to allow a 2-8-0 loco to pass through?

Sorry if these questions have already been answered but I have looked through the posts but not found these the answers.

Thanks

Peter

posted: 22 Jan 2012 19:11

from:

polybear
 
 

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Hi Peter,
The Exactoscale website shows good drawings of various point & crossings etc. with chair detail - many of the chair types are available from Exactoscale; however not all types of chair are available (I guess it would just not be practical or commercially viable to cover all chair types for all railway operating companies) - so these are usually catered for by trimming the ones that are available to fit the desired location using a sharp chisel or stanley knife.

http://www.p4track.co.uk/

(Click on Instructions - 4mm Scale Track)

I've no experience of the Borg-Rail tiebars so can offer no advice on how to fit them unfortunately. However, there is some information here:

http://www.borg-rail.co.uk/

(Click on Trackwork - Insulated Tiebars)

The Norman Solomon method of making tiebars is well worth considering also - see MRJ 151 for a feature (send me a p.m. for info if required)

A minimum set of Gauges for 00-sf would be a pair of 16.2mm Roller Gauges, a pair of 15.2mm Check Rail Roller Gauges and a pair of 1mm Crossing Flangeway Gauges. 16.2mm 3-point track gauges can be added later if desired.

So far as I know Templot does not cater for Gauge widening in the templates - track gauges should be used for this. However, Exactoscale 00 16.5mm plain trackwork is in effect already gauge widened; I suggest there would be no need for gauge widening in slips, turnouts etc (is it practical to do so anyway?) unless the formation features very sharp radii, which certainly wouldn't be desirable, especially if you wish to run 2-8-0's!!

As for minimum curves for 00-sf, the usual rule is to apply EM standards (00-sf is EM minus 2mm) which mean a minimum of 36" (any sharper tends not to look right anyway). However, it may be possible to reduce this - it's very hard to give firm answers because other factors will affect this also, such as the side to side free play of an axle etc.

HTH
Brian
Last edited on 22 Jan 2012 19:18 by polybear
posted: 24 Jan 2012 00:30

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Thanks for your reply Brian, PM sent.

Does anyone have photos/examples of slip tie bars in use? Not the sliding pcb sleeper type as I have found these unsatisfacory. Thanks

posted: 25 Jan 2012 08:41

from:

Stephen Freeman
 
Sandbach - United Kingdom

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Hi,

I can understand why, too much stress in the movement causes friction, breakage of the solder joints/copperclad and difficulty in getting the motor to operate successfully, plus short circuits if the tiebar touches a rail it shouldn't.

There are a number of possibilities to overcome the situation

1) Operation from below directly onto the point blades with dummy tiebars.
2) 2 separate tiebars linked together
3) A more flexible tiebar

All require fixing by to the pointblades.

I can help with 2 and/or 3 if you wish to discuss the matter further.

Stephen

PeterD wrote:
Thanks for your reply Brian, PM sent.

Does anyone have photos/examples of slip tie bars in use? Not the sliding pcb sleeper type as I have found these unsatisfacory. Thanks


posted: 25 Jan 2012 10:58

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Thank you Stephen for your reply. I would appreciate any advice you can give.

Peter

posted: 25 Jan 2012 23:13

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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PeterD wrote:
Chairs

I have now obtained plastic chairs for standard trackwork and the brass crossing nose chairs. These will be assembled on ply sleepers (already bought in strips). I am missing check rail chairs.

Can anyone help with these please?


Peter
Hi Peter.
Assuming you need Check rail chairs that give a 1mm gap, Exactoscale are in the process of tooling up to make these for EM track. No delivery date yet but it may be worthwhile waiting for them.
Tony.

posted: 26 Jan 2012 00:01

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Hi Tony

Thanks for the tip. I had looked on the site and was going to use the 0.8mm gap chairs and modify these. I could not get a reply (and their voicemail is FULL) so I did not order them. Just as well. I shall wait until the 1mm gap chairs are available.

Peter

posted: 26 Jan 2012 07:14

from:

Stephen Freeman
 
Sandbach - United Kingdom

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I'll see what I do later today.

Check rail chairs - you could use 4 bolt chairs alternately and half-chairs, thus allowing you to gauge the check rail from the crossing using the crossing gauge as mentioned previously (I think).

Stephen
PeterD wrote:
Thank you Stephen for your reply. I would appreciate any advice you can give.

Peter


posted: 26 Jan 2012 07:52

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Thank you Stephen.

Check rail chairs.
I had thought about using partial chairs for the check rails but thought that opening out the gap from 0.8mm to 1mm by filing the check rail side of the chair and using a gauge to confirm the gap would be easier and more accurate.

posted: 26 Jan 2012 13:39

from:

David R
 
Hatfield Heath - United Kingdom

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Peter,

It is perfectly possible to use the 0.8mm chairs unmodified for EM -- I have done so and it works fine.  Just ensure that you use the check-rail-gauge to position the check-rail the correct distance from the crossing-nose.  The reduction in gauge by 0.2mm makes no difference to the running except to reduce some of the slop excess clearance between wheel and rail.

Regards,  Dave R
Last edited on 26 Jan 2012 13:40 by David R
posted: 26 Jan 2012 22:08

from:

Dellboy
 
Aylesford - United Kingdom

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PeterD wrote:
Thank you Stephen.

Check rail chairs.
I had thought about using partial chairs for the check rails but thought that opening out the gap from 0.8mm to 1mm by filing the check rail side of the chair and using a gauge to confirm the gap would be easier and more accurate.


Hi Peter
I use Exactoscale 0.8mm check chairs quite successfully for EM gauge by using a simple modification approach. Lay out the number of check chairs required. Then by cutting vertically through the chair alternatively under the center of the stock or center of the check rail with a sharp knife produces two sets of part chairs, one set for each rail. I chair up one rail at every other sleeper using the chairs and glue down. Same operation required for the other rail, this time gluing down to the unchaired sleepers. This allows you to gauge both rails independently and to the proper standard. Last job is to glue down the cut half chairs to effectively reinstate the full chairs. (Make sure you get the right handling for the cut chairs to ensure the chair key positions are pointing the correct way(s)) The 'surgery' is invisible and result is perfect gauging.

posted: 27 Jan 2012 09:51

from:

Stephen Freeman
 
Sandbach - United Kingdom

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Hi,

I have put some images of standard tiebars in my gallery

Firstly a type mainly for 7mm scale though it will work for 4mm too. The method for double slips would be to extend the wire to the other tiebar.
142_270435_100000000.jpg142_270435_100000000.jpg
142_020821_520000000.jpg142_020821_520000000.jpg
Secondly a type for either 4mm or 7mm scale. For double slips/multi-gauge etc the tiebar is extended with additional fixings
142_270435_100000001.jpg142_270435_100000001.jpg

For central operation a wire loop can be attached.

In all cases it's invariably easier and safer to apply the soldering iron to the point blade and let the solder run, otherwise you risk unsoldering the tiebar assembly. It's not too difficult to re-adjust re-solder if you do manage to do this though.


PeterD wrote:
Thank you Stephen.

Check rail chairs.
I had thought about using partial chairs for the check rails but thought that opening out the gap from 0.8mm to 1mm by filing the check rail side of the chair and using a gauge to confirm the gap would be easier and more accurate.

Last edited on 27 Jan 2012 09:52 by Stephen Freeman
posted: 27 Jan 2012 10:48

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Thank you Dave and Dellboy :)

I shall try and build a slip and see which is the best approach. :thumb:

Peter

posted: 28 Jan 2012 09:57

from:

PeterD
 
Waterlooville - United Kingdom

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Thanks Phil,

Sorry for the delay in replying. The problem I see with double slips is that the tie bars are at different angles. This, I think, causes additional stresses on solder joints when actuated when using a rigid connection between both tie bars. I think this is the reason I have had problems with the 'moving sleeper' arrangement. I am just wondering if separate droppers for each tie bar with an actuator under the baseboard with loops to allow the droppers to swivel in would be the best arrangement?

Peter
Borg-Rail wrote:
Hi,

I have put some images of standard tiebars in my gallery

Firstly a type mainly for 7mm scale though it will work for 4mm too. The method for double slips would be to extend the wire to the other tiebar.
142_270435_100000000.jpg142_270435_100000000.jpg
142_020821_520000000.jpg142_020821_520000000.jpg
Secondly a type for either 4mm or 7mm scale. For double slips/multi-gauge etc the tiebar is extended with additional fixings
142_270435_100000001.jpg142_270435_100000001.jpg

For central operation a wire loop can be attached.

In all cases it's invariably easier and safer to apply the soldering iron to the point blade and let the solder run, otherwise you risk unsoldering the tiebar assembly. It's not too difficult to re-adjust re-solder if you do manage to do this though.


PeterD wrote:
Thank you Stephen.

Check rail chairs.
I had thought about using partial chairs for the check rails but thought that opening out the gap from 0.8mm to 1mm by filing the check rail side of the chair and using a gauge to confirm the gap would be easier and more accurate.





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