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topic: 1886Templot won't quit
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posted: 26 Mar 2012 19:12

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

Very occasionally I get a problem where I can't close Templot.  It happened the other day after a marathon session, so I had to kill it from the Task Manager, and again just now when TDV couldn't connect to the internet for some reason.  I realise that the internet check won't be an issue with Templot 2, but wondered if this info will be of any use in helping you spot a possible coding error.

What's happening right now, after having been told that Templot will now quit after not being able to connect to the internet, is that I still have the "welcome to Templot" splash screen on the screen.  Clicking on either GO or GO using my preferences results in the buttons "depressing" but nothing happens.  When I click on the red cross to close Templot, a typical Templot dialogue box pops up briefly - this has a two line white text field, a one line white text field, then the yellow and green one line text fields.  There's no text in them though, and I can't grab a screenshot because it's too quick!  When I End Task it from Task Manager, that empty dialogue box briefly pops up twice before Windows takes over and kills it.

I wouldn't be worried about this when TDV's internet check runs, but as I said, I've occasionally had it happen after running Templot normally - I don't think it's connected to the internet check.  There's not even any consistency - I just ran it again, again it couldn't connect to the internet (odd!), but it quit normally.  Third time it started with no problems.

Sorry!

posted: 26 Mar 2012 20:27

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul,

Thanks for that -- it sounds to be a timing problem. Templot is trying to quit while there are still some unhandled entries in the Windows message queue. The code already includes a delay to clear the queue before quitting, but I will look again at this. What other software do you have running at the same time?

Anyone else seeing this?

There is a known issue where TDV won't close without saving a .box file first, but in that case you see normal dialogs, and TDV closes happily once you agree to save the file.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Mar 2012 09:01

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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Morning,

Can't say I have come across this issue. With regard to the online check, when I fire up Templot on my main PC I only have the machine connected to the internet for the duration which Templot needs to perform it's check. I then disconnect. When I close Templot down it does so quite happily.

Ian

posted: 27 Mar 2012 11:27

from:

Geoff Cook
 
Stoke On Trent - United Kingdom

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Hi

Yesterday I had a situation that caused TDV to lock up and was only available to shut it down by using task manager

I was loading a .sk9 file into sketchpad which had been sent to me by email, when loading, a Templot warning came up on the screen about an acess violation, this had the OK button in the middle which I clicked and expected it to go away, when clicked it just disappeared then imediately returned further cliking on the OK button made no difference

All other windows for Templot were disabled awaiting a response from clicking the OK button

The only way out of this situation was to use task manager which said templot was awaiting a response

Task Manager shut Templot down at the second time of asking

It appears the cause was the .sk9 file had been corrupted or its contents removed by my Sky emailserver probably due to its size being greater then what they allow

146_270621_450000000.jpg146_270621_450000000.jpg

We overcome the email problem by downloading the file via the RMweb server

posted: 27 Mar 2012 13:23

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

You asked:
What other software do you have running at the same time?
I don't think there was anything else running (apart from the myriad background processes) but if this happens again I'll make a note.  I've seen the issue where I was asked to save a box file (despite having just done so) but it did close when I saved it again.

Ian - I think my mention of TDV's "phone home" at startup was a bit of a red herring.  It just happened that yesterday this was the reason for Templot trying to quit - it's the quitting that's the problem, not the internet check.

One day I must have a look at this new Sketchboard malarkey :D

Cheers

posted: 30 Mar 2012 09:45

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Geoff Cook wrote:
We overcome the email problem by downloading the file via the RMweb server
Hi Geoff,

Did the SK9 file then load into the sketchboard OK?

Files often get corrupted by email, presumably by the multiple spam and virus filters which they pass through.

I'm a bit surprised that RMweb includes SK9 files in the allowed attachments? If so, thank you Andy. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 30 Mar 2012 10:21

from:

Geoff Cook
 
Stoke On Trent - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Geoff Cook wrote:
We overcome the email problem by downloading the file via the RMweb server
Hi Geoff,

Did the SK9 file then load into the sketchboard OK?

Files often get corrupted by email, presumably by the multiple spam and virus filters which they pass through.

I'm a bit surprised that RMweb includes SK9 files in the allowed attachments? If so, thank you Andy. :)

regards,

Martin.
Hello Martin

The SK9 file did load correctly into sketchboard, with regards to RMweb allowing SK9 attachments I don't know the answer to that, the file was loaded onto the RMweb server by no other than Mr York, it is his layout plan of Chillington Wharf that I am working on

Geoff

posted: 17 Jun 2012 21:43

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

This time I managed to grab a screenshot after a couple of attempts!

105_171641_480000000.png105_171641_480000000.png

I fired up Templot but got the "unable to connect to the internet" message again (which is why I'm nervous about this staying).  Templot wouldn't quit and clicking on the red cross just gives the empty dialogue box that you can see above left of the Templot window, on its way to fading out. Opening Task Manager, I selected Templot in the Applications tab and hit End Task.  That empty box comes up twice in quick succession, but Templot doesn't quit.  It's actually quite hard to kill Templot but it went eventually.  Running Templot again worked fine.

Definitely something odd going on here!  As you can see, Windows Live Mail was running this time, but no other applications.  My internet connection is pretty good.  Speed is around the 5.8M mark, and I don't see drop-outs at any other time - there's nothing in the router logs to cause alarm.  Still Win7x64.

posted: 17 Jun 2012 22:48

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul,

Thanks for that, although I'm completely mystified. :?

If Templot can't connect to the internet you shouldn't be seeing that quit dialog at all. You should see only these two messages:

2_171733_220000000.png2_171733_220000000.png

followed by:

2_171733_230000001.png2_171733_230000001.png

Did you see these?

Furthermore, you shouldn't normally see the program panel window showing the track picture and the GO buttons at the same time.

And you shouldn't ever see the alert dialog without a message on it.

Is anyone else seeing the same as Paul? There have been nearly 1,000 downloads of Templot2 and this is the only report I've received of anything like this. :?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Jun 2012 09:39

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I did see the two messages - sorry, I should have mentioned that.  I clicked on OK in each case, and it was after clicking OK on the "Templot will now quit" box that I first get the empty message box.  The program panel stays put and trying to close that results in the empty message box again.

Furthermore, you shouldn't normally see the program panel window showing the track picture and the GO buttons at the same time.
That's a good point - it should be the reminder box popping up instead of the track picture.  On a quick check running from my USB stick at work, the reminder message window does pop up (I'm sure it does at home but would need to check)  When I hit Go, the track picture appears at the same time as the Multiple monitors confirmation as below:

105_180436_490000000.png105_180436_490000000.png

Maybe there's a clue here, because you can clearly see that the Go button and the track picture are on the program panel at the same time during normal operation, whilst waiting for me to respond to the multiple monitor box.

Better get on with some work now :(

Cheers

posted: 18 Jun 2012 09:53

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Maybe there's a clue here, because you can clearly see that the Go button and the track picture are on the program panel at the same time during normal operation, whilst waiting for me to respond to the multiple monitor box.
Hi Paul,

Thanks for that. I had forgotten about the multiple monitors dialog. :)

More to the point, it should have an option to be included in the program preferences so that you don't need to click it every time. I'll get that fixed now.

I'm also making a small change in the program termination code, which I hope will solve your "won't quit" problem. I can't actually test it, because I can't replicate the problem on three different systems. :?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Jun 2012 18:01

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I can almost produce this error at will now.  If I click the Templot shortcut (my system is set to the eminently sensible single-click option) then hold the Enter key down when the "Templot will be starting soon" box appears, it will nearly always fail. It's not quite that simple though - it seems to depend on how far the green scroll bar has got in that box when I hit the Enter key - if I hit the Enter key when the scroll bar is around 1/4 to 1/2 way across, it's far more likely to fail to connect to the internet, and then crash.

It doesn't always give the empty message box, but it does need to be killed from Task Manager.  The same applies if I bash Enter repeatedly at that window.  If I slow down a bit and wait for the program panel to appear, then all is fine.  I've seen the problem where Templot insists on saving something, but you know about that one.

Not sure if that helps at all or just adds to the confusion!  Despite what I said earlier in this thread, it does seem to be related to the internet check, but I think it's firing lots of Enters at Templot whilst it's doing that check that's causing the problem.  A simple solution might be to stop Templot accepting key presses until that "Templot will be starting soon" box has finished!




posted: 18 Jun 2012 18:16

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Paul,

Thanks for that. I can't replicate your problem, but I certainly get some strange happenings if I hold down the Enter key during that initialization splash.

I was just about to upload a new Templot2 update, you beat me by 5 minutes. :)

I will leave it now until I've had a further look at this later.

Thanks again,

Martin.

posted: 20 Jun 2012 00:50

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
it's firing lots of Enters at Templot whilst it's doing that check that's causing the problem.  A simple solution might be to stop Templot accepting key presses until that "Templot will be starting soon" box has finished!
Hi Paul,

It's not quite that simple. :(

The Enters are not going to Templot, but to Windows which then launches further instances of Templot because the shortcut icon still has focus. Then with further Enters in the message stream, each instance tries to connect to the internet at the same time. The result is chaos. (The multiple instances warning wasn't working in 205b.)

I have made some changes in the new 205c version which mean it should be safe to hold down the Enter key once the GO buttons are showing. But there is not much I can do about matters before that stage.

Can I suggest that you wait a second or two before hitting Enter? Indeed there are now so few startup dialogs that you could press Enter separately for each one rather than holding the key down.

How fast is your system? On my development system (Windows 7) the initialization splash lasts less than a half a second, and I have to be very quick to get the Enter key down before it has finished and the GO buttons are showing. :)  My old WinXP system is slower, but still less than a couple of seconds.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 20 Jun 2012 18:15

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

I've not managed to break the new version, even when holding down Enter as soon as the splash screen appears!  I always have started Templot by hitting the Enter key several times rather than holding it down, but was still able to break 2.05b too often.  Holding the Enter key just meant I could break it reliably :D

My system is only a few months old, software wise, and that splash screen is there for probably less than half a second - too short to time it, anyway.  I very rarely use a mouse though so I tend to be a bit quick on the keyboard sometimes - when holding the pen, my right thumb is just a smidgen away from the Enter key on the numeric keypad.  Perhaps I should use the mouse - it's to the left of the keyboard and I use it left handed so it's a long way from any Enter keys!

Cheers



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