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                 GW Turnouts
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 30 Mar 2012 15:35
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Hi Martin

I seem to be getting a problem with the turnout templates, in that they were all done from a master template Great Western turnout as far as the crossing was concerned IE blunt nose set at 11/16ths and 4 inches from the timber Centre Line which I had set up in EM Gauge. I converted this to 00 for the purpose of this layout. When I started to sort out the timbering to suit Mr Smith's book I checked the dimensions of the first few turnout's at the left hand end of the layout and find that the fine point was 0.01mm and the centre of the timber to the fine point is 5.25 inches, so I started resetting them, on reopening the file the information is giving me these dimensions but looking at the template they look OK. I have opened up an earlier version with similar results>  Have I done something wrong or is it a glitch. I attach the box files. I am using XP home on a HP compaq.

Cheers Phil

Early version

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Attachment: 00_devizes_station_h_2011_08_17_2103_48.box (Downloaded 236 times)
 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 30 Mar 2012 15:36
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Latest version

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Attachment: devizes_ver_f_2012_03_19_2105_24.box (Downloaded 233 times)
 
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3rd message | this message only posted: 30 Mar 2012 23:06
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from:
Brian Nicholls
Poole, United Kingdom



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Hi Phil,

I’ve just had a quick look at your templates in the box file you posted (latest version).

I checked template No. 18 top left of your layout, 00-BF  GWR 16ft. heel +  V- 10  LH template.

First I think you have the blunt nose forward of the A timber centre distance wrong, you have set the dimension to 5.25 inches, this should be 3 inches ( see page 31 of Mr Smith's book top of second column (top right hand corner).

To correct this: -

< geometry >
                    < real >
                               < V-crossing options >
                                                                 < customize V-crossing >
                                                                                                        < blunt nose >


Change the value of the second item in this menu.

One thing that’s got me foxed at the moment, is the position of the fine point.
By calculation from Mr Smith's book this should be forward of the blunt nose as follows:

Fine point should be 11/16 inch x N, where N is the crossing angle therefore:

11/16 = 0.6875 inch,

0.6875/12 = 0.057292 foot,

now at 4 mm scale,

0.057292 x 4 = 0.2292

Therefore, position of fine point forward of blunt nose is:

11/16 inch x N  = 0.2292 x 10 = 2.292 mm at 4 mm scale.

See page 29 of Mr Smith's book bottom of first column (bottom left hand corner).

I will have a closer look at this and see if I can locate why this is not in the right position.

HTH

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.


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4th message | this message only posted: 30 Mar 2012 23:32
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from:
Brian Nicholls
Poole, United Kingdom



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Hi Phil,

Just one other small point, the GWR practice for measuring and setting out angles was the CLM method as used by most, if not all the other companies at that time.
Therefore all your crossing angles should be using CLM.
See page 29 of Mr Smith's book about a third of the way down th first column (Chapter 3).


This would slightly change the later part of the calculation to:

11/16 inch x N  = 0.2292 x 10.02 = 2.296584 mm at 4 mm scale ( with crossing angle set to 10 RAM).

Not real that much difference.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

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5th message | this message only posted: 30 Mar 2012 23:43
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Brian Nicholls wrote:One thing that’s got me foxed at the moment, is the position of the fine point. Brian,

Phil's turnouts are showing correctly. He has set sharp-nose vees, which are therefore located at the fine point (FP) as shown.

Sharp-nose vees are not prototypical, so his 5.25 offset dimension to the A timber is arbitrary for best appearance.

I normally recommend sharp-nose vees for 00-BF, DOGA Intermediate and H0 because otherwise with a blunt nose the gap in front of the nose will be too wide for many wheels, which will drop in the gap with a bump.

Phil,

I'm not clear why you set 0.01" for the sharp nose instead of plain zero -- Templot will accept a zero for this dimension.

Phil, a layout such as this cries out for 00-SF instead of 00-BF. The 1.0mm 00-SF flangeways will then allow you to use proper blunt-nose vees for all wheels, and you can then set the proper GWR dimensions for the crossings. Blunt-nose vees look so much more prototypical than sharp ones.

Some more notes on this subject:  http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=854&forum_id=1

regards,

Martin.

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6th message | this message only posted: 31 Mar 2012 12:31
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from:
wally
 

 

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Martin,

Phil is designing a suggestion for a new club exhibition layout and not all of the members are fine scale moddelers, although we are working on them slowly!

We do have to allow for the use of mainly modern products belonging to the other members of the club.

This is the reason for the more universal standard.

Wally
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7th message | this message only posted: 31 Mar 2012 12:44
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
wally wrote:We do have to allow for the use of mainly modern products belonging to the other members of the club.Hi Wally,

Most modern RTR will run through 00-SF at these radii.

See much recent discussion on RMweb.

regards,

Martin.

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8th message | this message only posted: 31 Mar 2012 17:17
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from:
wally
 

 

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Martin Wynne wrote: wally wrote:We do have to allow for the use of mainly modern products belonging to the other members of the club.Hi Wally,

Most modern RTR will run through 00-SF at these radii.

See much recent discussion on RMweb.

regards,

Martin.


Martin,

Not wishing to be pedantic, that was why I used the word "mainly"

Wally

 

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9th message | this message only posted: 31 Mar 2012 18:26
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
wally wrote:Not wishing to be pedantic, that was why I used the word "mainly"Hi Wally,

Yes, point taken. I assume that's why Phil is using 00-BF and sharp vees.

regards,

Martin.

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10th message | this message only posted: 31 Mar 2012 19:13
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Martin Wynne wrote: wally wrote:Not wishing to be pedantic, that was why I used the word "mainly"Hi Wally,

Yes, point taken. I assume that's why Phil is using 00-BF and sharp vees.

regards,

Martin.
Hi All

The Vee's were originally set at 11/16" or .69mm but have all been changed during one or other of the upgrades. I had not noticed this until I came to do the shove timbering, when I checked the Vee crossing custom settings, whilst doing this that I noticed the anomaly.  Hence the post, I have got the blunt nose position wrong as I miss interpreted Mr Smiths words in that the transverse bolt is 4" from the blunt nose not the centre line of the timber.

I used 00 as a basis I also have a 00-sf on the blocks. I am going to build a 00-sf and bog standard pair of cross overs to test the stock likely to run on this layout.

Cheers Phil

Edit

PS. Perhaps I should have mentioned that on my PC the first uploaded box file still shows the original Vee's.

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