Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 1895Magenta border around background picture shape
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posted: 2 Apr 2012 17:31

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

No doubt before I even ask, it’s going to be finger trouble on my part or something I am not setting correctly. :)

However, here’s my question:

In Sketchboard, why do I have a magenta lined rectangle around my image shape of the New Street Signal Box No. 5 ?

Please see image below, I’ve also attached the shape file.

Do you need the sk81 file ?

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

 

1853_021226_010000000.png1853_021226_010000000.png

 

 


 
Attachment: attach_1411_1895_signal_box_5_at_new_street_12_04_02_1656_29.bgs 349

posted: 2 Apr 2012 18:41

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Brian Nicholls wrote:
No doubt before I even ask, it’s going to be finger trouble on my part or something I am not setting correctly. :)
Hi Brian,

No, it's a fair cop. :)

I have forgotten to include an option to turn off the picture shape borders for sketchboard and image file exports. There is an option tickbox for the borders for print and PDF output, but not for sketchboard and image files -- borders are always on there.

I will add the option to turn them off in the next TDV update. Many thanks for finding and reporting it. :thumb:

However, I'm not too clear why you are using a background picture shape for this signal box? The background picture shapes are mainly intended for scanned track plans, maps, etc.

For what you want, why not add the image directly using the sketchboard? Then you get the auto-scaling function via the file name which we discussed at length a while ago.

And you also get the option to easily rotate the image to any desired alignment and add transparency effects. And combine it with other items to create more complex items.

Click the  add item > bitmap image button at A to add the image.

If you want it to show also on the workpad, tick the box at B to show items on workpad

2_021324_540000000.png2_021324_540000000.png

regards,

Martin.

posted: 2 Apr 2012 19:34

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the quick response.

It looks as if for once I’m not the culprit of my own dilemma. :D

Apologies for sending the wrong attached image file, I did in fact use a prepared scaled sketchboard GIF file to add the signal box into Sketchboard just as specified when we were discussing this during the early development of sketchboard.

I have now attached, to this message, the correct file that I actually used.

BTW, The image below, is what it looks like on my Workpad track plan.

Colours are a little bit off, which may be due to the background colours of the track plan, but I am not too fussed about it, so long as I can successfully check clearances etc.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

 

1853_021428_220000000.png1853_021428_220000000.png

Attachment: attach_1413_1895_signal_box_number_5_at_new_street_station_with_straight_ridge_roof_96ft_8p4in_x_13ft_9p84in_v1_a1a_brian_nicholls_z2z__pf1797.gif 390

posted: 2 Apr 2012 20:19

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Another point I have found which again may be my fault (or not).

When I originally loaded the signal box image as a background image onto my track plan in workpad, it displayed OK, and I dully adjusted it for scale and position.

However, shortly thereafter, I had reason to delete my background track plan (leaving the signal box image as was).

I then, a little later, re-loaded my background track plan, but found it had covered the signal box image, and I could not find anyway to bring it to the front of the track plan.

Fortunately I had saved the background image of the signal box as a bgs file, so I loaded a second image of the signal box on top of the background track plan image, then deleted the original lower (covered) signal box image, as it was no longer needed.

Is there any way to bring up an image from behind the track plan without having to re-load that image ?

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 3 Apr 2012 20:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Brian Nicholls wrote:
Is there any way to bring up an image from behind the track plan without having to re-load that image ?
Hi Brian,

The background shapes are drawn in the order listed in the dialog, there isn't any way to change the order.

What you can do if a picture shape is obscuring something underneath is to tick the transparent option for that picture shape.

You do have some control at the time of adding new background shapes -- if you click in the list the new shape will be inserted below the selected one in the list -- i.e. in front of it on the workpad.

Colours are a little bit off, which may be due to the background colours of the track plan, but I am not too fussed about it, so long as I can successfully check clearances etc.

Which colours are wrong?

I'm a bit puzzled why you are using the signal box GIF as a picture shape instead of adding it as a sketchboard item? The GIF transparency won't work that way, and if you want to twist it slightly into alignment you will have a lot of grief getting it just right. It would all be so much easier on the sketchboard, and then show it all on the workpad to check clearances. You can include your scanned plan on the sketchboard, move items forward and back, and rotate items with the mouse. Just remember to draw a boundary rectangle round the entire background picture shapes to get them onto the sketchboard. If you leave the trackplan in diagram mode on the sketchboard, you will get a handy colour infill between your rails on the workpad.

Well no, maybe I'm not puzzled, the sketchboard is still crying out for a user manual. I just don't know when I shall ever have time to write it. :(

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2012 00:11

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the response to my last query.

First let me say, that I did realise that the background shapes appeared in the order that they appeared in the menu list (i.e. the order that they were loaded in), that is why I thought the re-load would place the item on top, so no surprise there.

It was just a passing thought that you may be able to do something similar to that with the storage box, with the side arrows to move items up or down the list.

No big deal though, now that I am aware of how to correct similar events.

Regarding the colour, I thought the centre area of the signal box shown in workpad, had a green hue which is not present on my master or the item that appears in sketchboard.

Again this was really just a passing thought on my part and no reflection on workpad.

Regarding using shape items from sketchboard, this is pure ignorance on my part as I did not realise you could do that, and I will try it in the future. :?

Clearly, I need to look further into the features of sketchboard and see what can be achieved.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 4 Apr 2012 10:10

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Brian Nicholls wrote:
It was just a passing thought that you may be able to do something similar to that with the storage box, with the side arrows to move items up or down the list.
Hi Brian,

I haven't provided this because it never seemed to be needed. The background shapes are normally used as lines and empty rectangles or hatched infill, so the order of drawing doesn't make much difference.

Only the picture shapes are usually solid, and for those there is the transparent option to show any underlying shapes.

However, for cases such as this where you want to use picture shapes for scenic features, I will add the arrow buttons to re-arrange the order. But generally it would be better to use the sketchboard for these.

There is a lot of overlap between the legacy background shapes functions -- largely unchanged for many years now -- and the new sketchboard functions. It would be logical to integrate the two in some way or maybe remove the BGS functions entirely. But I don't want to remove old functions which users are familiar with and still using, just to make Templot look tidy. I have for a long time thought that the picture shapes needed separating from the other background shapes with their own dialog, so perhaps now would be a good time to do that.

regards,

Martin.
Last edited on 4 Apr 2012 11:55 by Martin Wynne
posted: 4 Apr 2012 14:00

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation.

I must apologies if my comments have caused you more work, but thanks for the proposed additional arrow buttons. :thumb:

As I stated in my last message, it is I, that really needs to get to grips with sketchboard and use it’s facilities to advantage.

I’m not quite sure how you would remove the BGS functions completely, as users will require to add in a background track plan (map, drawing etc), these are clearly very essential to the guidance for their layouts.

After all, although sketchboard is an excellent additional tool, Templot is the main tool that users really need to produce accurate templates to build and lay their tracks for their dream model railway.

I personally cannot image going back to pencil and paper, having to use geometry and versines to produce hand drawn templates, Templot, for me, has certainly put that into touch.

Thanks again Martin for the explanation.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 4 Apr 2012 14:19

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Brian Nicholls wrote:
I’m not quite sure how you would remove the BGS functions completely, as users will require to add in a background track plan (map, drawing etc), these are clearly very essential to the guidance for their layouts.
Hi Brian,

You can do the same via the sketchboard, and the SK9 file format is much more flexible than BGS. The auto-scaling functions would need looking at, but everything required is already in the sketchboard engine.

But these are just musings for the future, I have no plans to change anything in the short term. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Apr 2012 15:16

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
But these are just musings for the future, I have no plans to change anything in the short term. :)

Hi Martin,

Thanks for that last, very comforting thought, no immediate change to layout plan drawing insertion. :)

Having said that though, the changes to Templot user functions has been incredible over the last several months, light years ahead of the older versions.

Keep up the very good work Martin.  :thumb:

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 14 Apr 2012 21:31

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Brian Nicholls wrote:
It was just a passing thought that you may be able to do something similar to that with the storage box, with the side arrows to move items up or down the list.
Hi Brian,

Here you go: :)

2_141607_370000000.png2_141607_370000000.png

In the next Templot2 update. The up/down buttons repeat if held down.

The shapes are drawn on the trackpad* in the order listed, so the one at the bottom of the list is displayed at the front of the stack. I know this is non-intuitive, but I'm not sure what to do about it.

Also, when you click a shape in the list, it is initially displayed in front of all the others and outlined in red. This is a long-standing behaviour which I would prefer not to change, so this is also going to be a bit confusing. The shape returns to its place in the stack when you click these buttons. 

these buttons appear only when there is more than one background shape in the list. Please don't report a bug that the buttons have gone missing if you have only one background shape.

* the workpad has been renamed the trackpad in the next Templot2 update.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Apr 2012 00:50

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the heads-up on the new additions to the background up-down buttons. :thumb:

That looks absolutely fine.

The very large file size background image file I originally had, has recently been split into 3 sections, in order to speed things up a bit in workpad.
Also, I can now manage to join all three sections into one large file if I wish at any time, but have had to make a note in my little black book of the X co-ordinates for each section so that it all fits back perfectly as one complete track plan if required.
Just to make sure, I also added alignment joint markers to each section in the blank spaces of the plan image, using Photoshop, again these also produce a seamless joint when added together as three background shapes.

It now all works very well.

Once I get the next update of Templot 2, I will give the new system a good try, not that I have any doubts it will work fine.

Thanks again Martin for all your effort, it is very much appreciated.

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.


posted: 15 Apr 2012 16:13

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
No, it's a fair cop. :)

I have forgotten to include an option to turn off the picture shape borders for sketchboard and image file exports. There is an option tickbox for the borders for print and PDF output, but not for sketchboard and image files -- borders are always on there.

I will add the option to turn them off in the next TDV update.

I have now added the option to omit picture shape borders for exported image files, and trackplan items on the sketchboard, and they are off by default:
 

2_151100_180000001.png2_151100_180000001.png


2_151100_180000000.png2_151100_180000000.png


Also, for these outputs I have removed the crossed-through rectangle which was output in place of a picture shape when picture shapes were turned off. This feature remains for PDF and printed output.

These changes will be in the next TDV update.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Apr 2012 15:52

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the heads-up on the new additions to the border solution.

That work absolutely fine. :thumb:

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.



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