Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 2042Print Rail Foot?
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posted: 13 Aug 2012 22:08

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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I would like to print not only the rail head but the rail foot, too.

I am using HO-NMRA gauge and have set the rail to Flatbottom (shown in Information Panel). I have checked "rail-foot edges on flat-bottom rails" in the Output>Output Drawing Options>Element Options... dialog.

Still, when I output background templates to the printer, it only prints the rail head. What am I doing wrong?

Mark C

posted: 13 Aug 2012 22:55

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Mark,

1. click real > rails > head and foot (flat-bottom rails) menu item.

2. click real > rails > rail section data... menu item and set the dimensions for your rail section.

You have now set up the FB data for the control template.

3. now group-select the background templates to which you want these settings to apply, or group > group select all templates menu item to select all of them.

4. click real > rails > modify group to match menu item, to transfer the settings from the control template into all of them.

Now they should print and/or PDF showing the rail foot edges, and if you save them to a file, they will always do so.

note that only background templates can be printed with the rail foot edges. They are not available when printing the control template. Nor can they appear on the trackpad screen -- output formats only. This is an interim function in the present versions of Templot.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Aug 2012 02:23

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Martin,

Thanks - worked like a charm! Sure isn't very intuitive, though. Oh well...

Mark C

posted: 14 Aug 2012 04:27

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Mark C wrote:
Thanks - worked like a charm! Sure isn't very intuitive, though. Oh well...
Hi Mark,

I'm glad it worked.  :)

Unfortunately, one man's intuitive is another man's clear as mud.

The problem was that you didn't set up the required flat-bottom prototype settings for the background templates before you created them. Which is the normal way of doing anything in Templot.

I could have said that you would have to delete each one in turn back to the control template, modify it to flat-bottom, and then store it again as a fresh background template. Would that have been more intuitive? If you had 200 templates to do that way, it would take you a few hours. :(

The modify on rebuild group functions are provided to make such after-thought global changes easier. I think they would be reasonably intuitive to someone well-experienced in Templot. What could I do to make them more so for less experienced users? Comments welcome.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Aug 2012 05:04

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Martin,

Templot is a very, very powerful but also a very complex program, much like Photoshop. That doesn't make it a bad program, just requires a big learning curve.

What threw me off in trying to change the rail type was that I saw "Flatbottom" in the information panel when I clicked on every background template. This lead me to believe that they all templates had been changed. In thinking about it, that doesn't make much sense and I should have known better. I now understand that when changes like that are made, those changes are reflected only in all new templates.

What if a small dialog popped up after changes like this are made saying something like: "This change will be reflected in all templates created from now on. Would you like this change to be made to all existing background templates (not library or inactive templates) in this Storage Box? [YES] [NO]". Just a thought.

Your solution to Modify Group to Match covers all possible situations. But, the user has to know it's there. As a beginner, I didn't.

Btw, I built my first custom turnout designed in Templot2 over the weekend and had a ball doing it. It looks and works great. Thanks for making that possible.

Mark C

posted: 14 Aug 2012 10:19

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Mark C wrote:
What threw me off in trying to change the rail type was that I saw "Flatbottom" in the information panel when I clicked on every background template.
Hi Mark,

The information panel always shows the info for the current control template. Perhaps I need to make that more evident in some way.

To see the info for a background template, click the top item on its menu:

2_140503_560000000.png2_140503_560000000.png

(Notice that you can have templates of different scales. Useful if you have a library file of stock templates, but rarely of much use when working on a track plan. :) )

What if a small dialog popped up after changes like this are made saying something like: "This change will be reflected in all templates created from now on. Would you like this change to be made to all existing background templates (not library or inactive templates) in this Storage Box? [YES] [NO]". Just a thought.
I will have a think about adding an extra alert when the modify on rebuild option is available. It's not simple because not all possible changes would be applicable to all templates. It risks causing more confusion than it cures if you ask the user about check rail settings (say) when all the background templates are plain track.

Btw, I built my first custom turnout designed in Templot2 over the weekend and had a ball doing it. It looks and works great. Thanks for making that possible.
That's great. :)  How about a photo?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Aug 2012 14:51

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Martin,

I guess I don't use Templot enough to know or remember all these things. I just intuitively thought that the Information Panel referred to whichever template was highlighted at the moment.

You would know best if adding my suggested dialog would create more confusion than it solved. I can see where it could be confusing to program and superfluous for power users who have all kinds of different templates in a particular Box. Never mind my suggestion.

Here's a pic of my desk/workbench with the already made turnout with leads and the next one in progress. I started somewhat simple and have learned a lot. I was pleased that the first time I ran a car through the diverging route, it didn't pick the frog and rolled smoothly through the entire turnout. Maybe I just got lucky. The next one, a more complicated plan, should go a little smoother with some experience.

2480_140954_200000000.jpg2480_140954_200000000.jpg

I covered my desk with cork so I can use rail spikes to hold the PC ties (timbers) in position on the Templot plan for soldering. Then I use double stick tape over the printed plan to hold the wood ties in position before laying the formed & soldered rails down onto them with contact cement (Pliobond). Then I just turn it over and peel the printed plan off the bottom of the wood ties.

Btw, I find that printing the rail foot helps me see how far I have to shave various rail feet so that the shaved rail heads meet properly.

Thanks for the challenging but enjoyable program to go with my new rail laying hobby.

Mark C

Last edited on 14 Aug 2012 14:56 by Mark C
posted: 27 Feb 2013 02:18

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Martin,

Since upgrading to 2.06d, I'm having trouble printing the rail foot, again. I've tried everything you suggested in your 8/13/12 message (setting FB rail data then modifying group to match and it still doesn't work. I think I've checked all the appropriate output settings and still can't get the rail foot to print.

H E L P ! (again)

Mark C

posted: 27 Feb 2013 02:23

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Martin,

Oh, one more thing... I have been printing just one or two background templates by grouping them and then using the 'print group templates' function. Could this be the problem?

Mark C

posted: 27 Feb 2013 02:31

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Mark,

I haven't changed anything in that regard in 206d.

I have just tried printing the rail foot now, and it's fine here.

Please can you attach your .box data file so that I can have a look?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Feb 2013 02:40

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Martin,

Here's my latest .box file. I also forgot to mention that I can't figure out how to stop printing of timber numbers. It looks like I've unchecked that option, but they still print.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Mark C

P.S. Do you ever sleep? Isn't it 2:40am there? You must be like me - late to bed late to rise. MC
Attachment: attach_1567_2042_timesaverall4_v3.03_2013_02_23_1006_46.box     268

posted: 27 Feb 2013 02:42

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Mark C wrote:
Oh, one more thing... I have been printing just one or two background templates by grouping them and then using the 'print group templates' function. Could this be the problem?
Hi Mark,

YES. :(

You have found a bug. Thanks for finding and reporting it.

Sorry about that. I will get it fixed as soon as possible.

In the meantime, to print a group of templates only, save the group as a separate .box file and load only that file. Then you can print all of them in the usual way. ( group > save group... menu item.)

The vast majority of users here in the UK don't have any need of the rail foot function, because almost all handbuilt track uses bullhead rail. So problems like this don't show up very often. Well that's my excuse, anyway. :)

Thanks again,

regards,

Martin.

posted: 27 Feb 2013 02:43

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Martin,

I keep remembering more points just after I send a message. I am trying to print just the turnout to the siding in the upper left main track (template #34).

MC

posted: 27 Feb 2013 02:54

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Thanks, Martin. Go to bed and get some sleep. I don't want to be responsible for you pulling an all-nighter to fix this problem right away. It can wait!

posted: 27 Feb 2013 03:05

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Voila! Saved group & printed all, rail foot prints fine. Now I just want to get rid of the pesky timber numbers.

MC

posted: 27 Feb 2013 03:11

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Mark C wrote:
Here's my latest .box file. I also forgot to mention that I can't figure out how to stop printing of timber numbers. It looks like I've unchecked that option, but they still print.
Hi Mark,

Thanks for the file. :thumb:

To prevent printing of the timber numbers -- output > output drawing options > timber numbering > omit all timber numbering menu option.

I hope that's working for all output functions -- I haven't tested it for years. :)

Note that the setting isn't saved between sessions.

The timber numbers are useful for pointwork but not really needed on the templates for plain track. I will look at adding an option to omit them from plain track only. I will also add the settings to the saved program preferences.

You can also turn off the timber numbering in the generator settings (and rebuild the templates), but that way of course you can't do any timber shoving on-screen.

Yes, time to switch off. Although I did have a nap earlier this evening. :)

Thanks again,

Martin.

posted: 27 Feb 2013 10:48

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Sorry about that. I will get it fixed as soon as possible.

Fixed in next program update.

Martin.

posted: 27 Feb 2013 15:18

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

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Thanks, Martin. I'll use your work-around in the meantime if I wish to print just grouped templates. Can't believe I missed the "omit timber numbering" setting. Another senior moment. Thanks, again. MC



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