Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 2051HELP! Where to start?
author remove search highlighting
 
posted: 9 Sep 2012 19:44

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi all,
Firstly let me say im new to both Templot and to this forum, so apologies if i've posted in the wrong place.

I'm starting a new O gauge layout, and for the first time have decided to have a go at building my own track work. I've done straight track before, but never pointwork or single/double slips etc.

I've settled on my provisional trackplan - see attached PDF - and i think, going off the length of pointwork etc.., the proposed plan will fit onto nine 120x65cm boards. I apprecaite the points may be a sharper radius than advised, but my intention is to 'tweak' the design once I know it will actually work.

I now need to somehow get this into Templot. But having played with Templot over the past couple of days and watched the videos, I'm totally stumped with where and how to start. I'm not a computer expert by any means. But any assistance, advice or pointing in the right direction would be gratefully appreciated!

Regards
Richard
Attachment: attach_1487_2051_O_Gauge.pdf     431

posted: 9 Sep 2012 21:25

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
RT wrote:
I now need to somehow get this into Templot. But having played with Templot over the past couple of days and watched the videos, I'm totally stumped with where and how to start.
Hi Richard,

Welcome to Templot Club -- and yes you are in the right place. :)

You are in danger of making the same mistake as many new users -- starting off wanting to create a specific track plan and diving straight into it. I suggest you put that to one side until you have become more familiar with Templot, and try just doodling some different track plans to get an idea of the size of things, what will fit where, etc., and how Templot works.

If the videos have baffled you, a good place to start might be Allan Ferguson's tutorial at:

 http://templot.com/companion/index.html?getting_started_allan_ferguson.htm

or the  beginners guide from Tony Wilkins at:

 http://templot.com/companion/index.html?beginners_guide_tony_wilkins.htm


You may also like to try working through the original Templot "track plan" tutorial at:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/tut5a.htm

It's years old and out of date, many of the methods can now be done more simply or by other means, and some of the menu items have since been renamed or moved. You may need to refer to the videos to find them.

But when I suggest it may be time to delete it, many users say how useful it still is, so it remains on the web site until a long-overdue replacement version has been written.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Sep 2012 22:31

from:

Matt M.
 
Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Richard.

There is no need to be a computer expert to use Templot,
but, as Martin has just pointed out, you can't be in a hurry.

Keep it simple. Templot has so much depth that it can
be a little overwhelming at first. It took me a year to
be comfortable with it, (not a lot of spare time),
and I'm still learning.

If you want to work on your layout plan take one small,
simple part of it and, using all the instructional aids as a guide,
lay some track, insert some points and gradually work out
where everything is and how it works.

You aren't going to get even this small slice of your plan exactly
the way you want first time. Or second. Or third.
But each time will add to your skill with Templot and unlock
a very powerful planning and track building tool.

So Richard, please persevere. When frustrated, take a break.
Feel free to junk what your working on and start again,
Gnaw away at it. Just don't quit. It will at some point start
to click.

Looking forward to seeing the finished result posted
on the forum in the future.

All the best,

Matt.

posted: 10 Sep 2012 00:19

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Martin/Matt,
Many thanks to both of you for the reply. Its an interesting comment you make Martin, and yes I think I do fall very much into that category! I guess we find or start using software such as this when we want to do something, so human nature is that you jump in and want to get started creating a masterpiece!

However, all of the above comments are taken on board, i'll sit and watch the video's again, see note below, and have a play around. One question, when your putting a curve in (yet to learn that!) or a siding adjacent to another line, how can you keep all the tracks at equal spacing? It seems a bit hit and miss, which suggests to me that i might be missing something?

Just a note for the website owner/operator - although im using Templot on a PC laptop, I have an Apple Mac as my main day-to-day machine (far easier than anything Microsoft!) but i cant see some of the videos on here because there EXE files. I'm told this is because they are Windows only, which is a shame, as my Mac has a far better screen for watching videos! Not complaining, just a comment in case somebody didnt know.

Thanks again to both of you.

Richard
Last edited on 10 Sep 2012 00:21 by RT
posted: 10 Sep 2012 00:58

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
RT wrote:
Just a note for the website owner/operator - although I'm using Templot on a PC laptop, I have an Apple Mac as my main day-to-day machine (far easier than anything Microsoft!) but I can't see some of the videos on here because they're EXE files. I'm told this is because they are Windows only, which is a shame, as my Mac has a far better screen for watching videos!
Hi Richard,

The website owner/operator is yours truly. :)

Templot will run on your Mac if you use Linux/Wine, which is free, or at low-cost if you use the easy Codeweavers Crossover installer for it. There are several topics on here about using Templot on a Mac.

You can also use Linux to watch the executable videos on your Mac, see:

  topic 1898 - message 12366

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Sep 2012 10:30

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote:
The website owner/operator is yours truly. :)


Ah! Didn't realise that - well done!


Martin Wynne wrote:
Templot will run on your Mac if you use Linux/Wine, which is free, or at low-cost if you use the easy Codeweavers Crossover installer for it. There are several topics on here about using Templot on a Mac.

You can also use Linux to watch the executable videos on your Mac, see:


Getting way beyond my level of knowledge there! I have a PC for running a couple of older pieces of Windows software so i just use that for Templot - easiest option!

But thanks for the heads up anyway!

Richard

posted: 10 Sep 2012 14:05

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Martin,

Could you give me a little help/advice? I've been using (playing?) with Templot for four hours this morning, and true to your words, i'm starting to get to grips with now, after watching the videos several times over! Have to say im very impressed!

Looking at what others have done, it appears the box file holds all the details on the template, so i've found that and attached it to this post incase it helps. I decided to take one part of the track plan and just chip away at it until i found my way around, which seems to have worked! Ive got some idea this way of what the end result should be - a comparison if you like.

A couple of questions though:
a) at the top right of the plan there will be a 3-way point. I've overlaid two B7 points and tweaked the curvature. Am i going the right way to create a 3-way or have I miss understood it totally? I know from the video there's more to do, but wanted to check I was learning correctly to start with!

b) Below the 3-way point will be a double slip, but I cannot see a menu option or template to create one? I've dropped a diamond crossing in for now to represent the slip, but what am I missing?

c) The three tracks (top left) i want to move upwards so the top one is lined-up with the track at the top right of the plan. Is there a way to select a batch of items and move at once, or do I have to move each one individually?

Thanks, in advance, for your help.

Regards
Richard
Attachment: attach_1493_2051_market_street_2012_09_10_1349_40.box     320

posted: 10 Sep 2012 18:07

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
RT wrote:
a) at the top right of the plan there will be a 3-way point. I've overlaid two B7 points and tweaked the curvature. Am i going the right way to create a 3-way or have I miss understood it totally? I know from the video there's more to do, but wanted to check I was learning correctly to start with!
Hi Richard,

What you have there is the makings of a 3-throw turnout, with both switches coincident. 3-throw turnouts are quite rare on the prototype and only used in yards and sidings. A 3-throw turnout would not be used in a passenger running line as you have it there.

What you need is a tandem turnout, in which the two base turnouts are staggered:

00_tandem_quick.png00_tandem_quick.png

Have a look at the one Tony has just done for Brian to see the difference:

 topic 2053 - message 13667

Tandem turnouts have been much discussed on here. If you go to the Search page at:

 http://www.templot.com/zoom/search_cgi.htm

and enter "tandem turnout" you will find dozens of results.

b) Below the 3-way point will be a double slip, but I cannot see a menu option or template to create one? I've dropped a diamond crossing in for now to represent the slip, but what am I missing?
Slips are created by adding slip roads to a diamond-crossing:

slip_road.pngslip_road.png

The base diamond-crossing can be curved or straight, regular or irregular, and short or long. So there are an infinite number of possible double slips.

It's best to leave adding the slip roads until your track plan is finalized, otherwise your work will be wasted if you need to make changes.

There is a tutorial showing how to create slips at:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/pug_slips.htm

c) The three tracks (top left) i want to move upwards so the top one is lined-up with the track at the top right of the plan. Is there a way to select a batch of items and move at once, or do I have to move each one individually? 
Select them as a group of templates. There are several ways to do that, but the easiest is to use the selection fence. Click the top tool-button with a solid black square on it (9th from the left). It goes green when clicked. Then click and drag a rectangle around the templates.

You can move or rotate them as a group using the mouse actions. I'm not going to tell you which ones. :) Click the help > print F key chart menu item and look for "shift group" and "rotate group". And to see how to align the group with existing tracks, see:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/gs_geometry.htm#shift_group_notch

There are lots of functions which can be applied to groups of templates -- have a look in the group menu on the trackpad.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Sep 2012 19:45

from:

John Preston
 
Lethbridge - Canada

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Richard,

I can resist everything but temptation, so your schematic challenged me.

I have made up a fair bit from your first six baseboards, using for the most part B6 points.  I have ensured that no points lie across a baseboard joint, as I assume that it is your intention to build on baseboards that can be moved and re-assembled in various locations.

For baseboard #6 I have found it not possible to have a point and what I believe you meant to be a scissors crossover  in one road withous encroaching on another baseboard.

Have a look.  I hope this helps in your ambitious project.

Box file attached and baseboard layout file with joints to follow.

Regards

John
Attachment: attach_1495_2051_O_Gauge_Challenge.box     321

posted: 10 Sep 2012 19:46

from:

John Preston
 
Lethbridge - Canada

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Richard,

Baseboard shape file attached.

Regards

John
Attachment: attach_1496_2051_O_Gauge_Challenge_Baseboards.bgs     283

posted: 11 Sep 2012 11:19

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hello John,
Thats very kind of you, thank you - I shall go and study your creation, and hopefully be able to complete it to an equal standard!

I'm getting to grips a little more now, but its the same as everything I suppose - practice makes perfect! Although I will admit, I though the major challenge to my skills would be laying the track, rather than drawing the layout!

Thanks again - can you tell me where the BGS file goes? I'm assuming the BOX file goes in the BOX directory?

Regards
Richard

posted: 11 Sep 2012 14:16

from:

John Preston
 
Lethbridge - Canada

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hello Richard,

The BGS file goes into the SHAPES-FILES sub directory.

Hope that helps.

Regarding the BOX file, it is a quick and dirty assembly with double slips only represented by diamonds and none of the timber shoving has been done.  There is a considerable amount of clean up to be done before it becomes a proper track plan.  If you wish to use this as your starting point, I am pleased that it is of use to you.

Regards

John

posted: 11 Sep 2012 17:58

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hello Richard.
In case you are unsure, to load the BGS file, open the Background shapes window by pressing ctrl + s and then select the reload button and find the file you want.
Tony.

posted: 12 Sep 2012 14:13

from:

ian espiner
 
Leeds - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I've just been reading the "Help! Where do I start?" thread and it occurred to me that perhaps if there was a separate forum within Templot Club it might give those scrambling up the North Face of the Templot learning curve a comfortable place to ask their questions. As many of the questions will be the same, it should save time.
In fact "Help! Where do I start?" is probably not a bad name for it. Just a thought.

posted: 12 Sep 2012 16:58

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
ian espiner wrote:
I've just been reading the "Help! Where do I start?" thread and it occurred to me that perhaps if there was a separate forum within Templot Club it might give those scrambling up the North Face of the Templot learning curve a comfortable place to ask their questions. As many of the questions will be the same, it should save time.
Hi Ian,

Thanks for that, I think it's worth trying. :thumb:

As you can see I have created a new forum section called Baffled beginners:

  http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_forum.php?id=22

and moved this topic into it.

Hopefully everyone will be able to join in here and welcome new users, as you don't need to know Templot inside out to answer the basic getting started questions which crop up.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Sep 2012 00:40

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi all,

Well persistance has paid off! I've kept playing around, scrapping it, playing around and scrapping it!  But i've actually got the whole of the track plan drawn and laid out, and i have to say I'm quite proud of it!!  Its not right yet, I still need to learn how to sort the three-way points and the scissor crossover out, and i've used diamond crossings to represent the double-slips at the moment, so they need updating too.

But i've attached it below, and would welcome any comments.  Specifically, have i got things right (with a view to building the trackwork?) and is the spacing between lines correct? (or is it too much, not enough etc..)  I point on the right hand side where the trackwork bows away from each other is deliberte, as it will be a staggered tunnel mouth, into the scenic break.

I've worked on 4' radius as the absolute minimum throughout, larger where I can.  I'm aware the real railway would be bigger turnouts, but its that fine line between 100% accurate and making it fit.  I'm also taking the view that with it being station pointwork, the trains are not going to be traversing them at speed, however, the largest locomotives are a Class 40 and 45, but i think they should be ok.

I've welcome all comments (including constructive criticisms), although please remember its the first time i've used Templot in anger!


Martin Wynne wrote:
What you have there is the makings of a 3-throw turnout, with both switches coincident. 3-throw turnouts are quite rare on the prototype and only used in yards and sidings. A 3-throw turnout would not be used in a passenger running line as you have it there.

What you need is a tandem turnout, in which the two base turnouts are staggered.

Martin - many thanks for your comments and for pointing that out.  I'm struggling for space on the layout so a tandem doesn't work in that position.  I've used some modellers license (what a wonderful thing!) to include the 3-throw turnout.

Cheers

Rich
Attachment: attach_1498_2051_sketchboard_2012_09_14_0010_41.pdf     326

posted: 14 Sep 2012 00:42

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Oops, sorry meant to attach the BOX file, not a PDF diagram!

Richard
Attachment: attach_1499_2051_market_street_2012_09_14_0020_10.box     238

posted: 14 Sep 2012 01:02

from:

Matt M.
 
Australia

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Richard,

As I told you, it just takes a while to gel.
Congratulations on the results so far.

No apology for the PDF version needed
for me. I also work on Mac, but use
Bootcamp for a Windows partition.
It was nice to download straight away
without going through a re-boot.

Congratulations again.

Regards, Matthew.

posted: 17 Sep 2012 01:41

from:

Mark C
 
Fort Myers, Florida - USA

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Richard,

I too have a Mac and got it only after I was told about Parallels Desktop for Mac, which creates a virtual PC on your Mac. It is much like Bootcamp in that you have to purchase or already own a Windows Install CD. But, Parallels runs under the Mac OS and provides almost virtually all PC functionality without having to reboot. In Coherence mode, Mac & PC application windows reside side by side on the Mac desktop and you can cut/copy & paste or drag & drop between any app windows.

The latest version of Parallels costs US$79 plus the cost of Windows if you don't already have it.

I have had Parallels running Windows XP on my Mac for several years now. I can run Templot2 and watch Martin's excellent .exe videos to my heart's content.

Mark C

posted: 19 Sep 2012 23:23

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
RT wrote:
Have i got things right (with a view to building the trackwork?) and is the spacing between lines correct? (or is it too much, not enough etc..) 


On the premise that nobody has commented on the design or pointed out any errors, I'm assuming that there aren't any! Can somebody tell me what I need to do, to the double-slips and the three-way points in order to be able to print the full template out and start building the trackwork?

Cheers
Rich

posted: 20 Sep 2012 00:21

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Rich,

If you are new to building track I strongly recommend that you don't build 3-throw turnouts. The switches are difficult to build accurately and need complex stretcher bar arrangements. If you value your sanity, change them to tandem turnouts. Or at the very least practice building slips and tandem turnouts first.

I gave links and notes about slips in my previous reply.

To print out your track plan, click the output > print background templates (track plan) menu item.

regards,

Martin.


posted: 20 Sep 2012 22:33

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Richard.
The only clearance problem I can see is with the two sidings, template numbers 78 & 80 in your box file which are too close together and won't have much usable length.
Tony.

posted: 20 Sep 2012 23:23

from:

RT
 
Doncaster - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Thanks Tony,
I'll take a look at that.

Richard



Templot Club > Forums > Baffled beginners > HELP! Where to start?
about Templot Club

Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.
The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason. Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2020  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems