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topic: 2056S7 curved scissors crossing
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posted: 16 Sep 2012 13:59

from:

Len Cattley
 
Bracknell - United Kingdom

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Hi group, I have just finish this S7 curved scissors crossing but I am not happy with the crossing part. I think I have done it wrong, is there someone who can show me the correct way to do it. I have downloaded the file so you can have a look. Regards
Len Cattley
Attachment: attach_1501_2056_S7_curved_scissor_crossing_2.box     344

posted: 18 Sep 2012 16:44

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Len Cattley wrote:
Hi group, I have just finish this S7 curved scissors crossing but I am not happy with the crossing part. I think I have done it wrong, is there someone who can show me the correct way to do it. I have downloaded the file so you can have a look. Regards
Len Cattley

Hi Len,

I’ve taken the liberty of making a curved scissors template at the same size and shape of the curve which is shown in your sample box file.
If it is exactly what you want, then please do use it for your requirement with my compliments.


Please see attached box file.

I realise your actual request was for someone to tell you how to make such a complex template, however, I am working on a help guide for you which I hope will explain every step and will be clear enough to be fully understood.

In the meantime, you are welcome to dissect my sample template, so that you can see how I put this template together.
I have kept the individual template numbers exactly in the order that I assembled my sample template so that it may give you a better clue of how to construct another one.


I will get the help guide done as soon as I can and post it on this topic, hopefully it will not be too long, I am hoping for the next day or so.

If you are very desperate, let me know and I will try and cobble something up for you.

All the best,

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f8fcff"Brian Nicholls.

Attachment: attach_1503_2056_brians_curved_scissors_sample_v1.box     360

posted: 19 Sep 2012 10:29

from:

Len Cattley
 
Bracknell - United Kingdom

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Thanks brian for doing this for me you must have been a while doing it. I have a book called "standard railway equipment - permanent way, 1926" from the north eastern railway association which shows a 1in 10 scissors crossover it is slightly different from yours, which i will have a go at a put it on here.
Regards

Len

posted: 19 Sep 2012 12:13

from:

Len Cattley
 
Bracknell - United Kingdom

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Hi Brian, just finished this it's not quite a 1 in 10 scissors crossing :). Let me know what you think?Regards
Len  
Attachment: attach_1504_2056_S7_curved_Scissor_Crossover.box     291

posted: 19 Sep 2012 16:02

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Len,

I’ve just downloaded your latest S7 Curved Scissors Crossing box file and taken a look at it.

If that sample is exactly what you require and suits your purpose, then that’s a very good effort indeed, and it appears to be quite reasonable, the only real comment I have is, that you have allowed the 4 turnout Vee wing rails to join onto the tongue rails at the K crossing points of the central diamond. See attached image below.

Now I suppose one could argue (given modellers licence) that it may give more strength and stability to those parts of the formation, but in reality, I doubt that it would be prototype practice.

You can easily rectify the situation by adjusting the individual wing rails to the following settings:

 Rail Length  =  41 ins (proto)
 Flare Length  =  28 ins (proto), or even down to say 24 ins.
This will clear the tips of the wing rails away from each of the tongue rails satisfactorily, and still give you full check rail function at the Vee gap.

Just a further note on my scissors sample, you may note I chose to make all the TXP points of the 4 turnouts align at the same centre point, this gives the final template the appearance of having ‘staggered’ switch blades, i.e. not aligned adjacent to each other at either ends of the two curves, now this is not wrong and, is sometimes seen in  prototype formations.

However, the same technique I used to construct my sample, can be equally used to produce curved scissor formations that exhibit aligned switch blades on both inner and outer curved roads. It just means there is a number of further manipulations which are needed at certain steps in the procedure to achieve the correct formation.

This is why I am re-writing my help guide, in order to cover all requirements whatever the formation needed.

Any how, well done Len, darn good effort your well on the way now. :thumb:

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

 

1853_191059_090000000.png1853_191059_090000000.png


posted: 19 Sep 2012 16:38

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Len,

Just a further point I meant to mention in my reply message posted just above, regarding the joining of the wing rails to the tongue rails is of course, that this may also cause problems with the wiring, in particular how you need to isolate the parts and their associated wiring. Just food for thought !!  :roll:

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.


posted: 19 Sep 2012 17:53

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Len Cattley wrote:
I have a book called "standard railway equipment - permanent way, 1926" from the north eastern railway association which shows a 1in 10 scissors crossover it is slightly different from yours, which i will have a go at a put it on here.

Hi Len,

Just managed to dig out my copy of the "Standard Railway Equipment - Permanent Way, 1926" from the north eastern railway association.

I found the 1 in 10 scissors crossover on page Y no. 45c (awful page referencing)(great information in the book).
That scissors, in the book, is shown on a straight parallel formation, not a curved formation, which is why, in the book, you have the switch blades aligned adjacent to each other on both roads.
Having looked at your curved sample box file, I’m not sure how you got away with aligning the rails at the centre of the diamond, since the TXP point for opposing crossings are at different places. :?


I know I did check rail through flow alignments by copying (as an overlay) each individual turnout template in your sample and taking out the blanking (or extending the rails to suit) and it did all check out as a smooth run in the rails. :)

Any how, it seemed to work out for you so again, well done. :thumb:

All the best,

Brian Nicholls.

posted: 19 Sep 2012 17:58

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Len

A comment I would make would be regarding the switches.  In the prototype, they need to be staggered by one sleeper length to allow the point rodding to pass through the sleepers.  In your box file, if you add the timbering back in to the two left hand switches, then try to work out where the rodding to the tie bars would go, you'll see what I mean!

I find the simplest way to shove the switch backwards and forwards without affecting anything else (much!) is to firstly set the peg at the Ctrl-F4 setting, then change the "entry straight in front of the fine point" with  template =>V-crossing settings...  Then select fixed at... , OK, then enter an appropriate number - this is trial and error unless Martin can say otherwise!  The catch is that you've made the switch section from rather a lot of partial templates which isn't strictly necessary, so you'll need to change the setting on all the templates that make up the switch.

Attached is yet another sample of a curved scissor box file.  There's no one correct method to all this, but hopefully the more examples you get, the more you can pick and choose the methods that suit you!
Attachment: attach_1505_2056_Curved_scissor_P4.box     299

posted: 19 Sep 2012 18:09

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Paul Boyd wrote:
Then select fixed at... , OK, then enter an appropriate number - this is trial and error unless Martin can say otherwise!
Hi Paul,

By mouse action:  SHIFT+F11 (Templot2 shortcut) or action > mouse actions: control/real > adjust V-crossing entry straight menu item.

There is a video showing it in use somewhere.

It was in 091c. :)

For a Type 2 scissors crossover you should do this on the first turnout before you start, so that the entry straight starts before the first V-crossing in the diamond. Then all 4 crossings in the diamond will have the same angle. This applies for a straight or curved scissors.

On a short scissors it won't be possible because of radius constraints.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 19 Sep 2012 18:26

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Thanks, Martin!

I can see it's time for me to have a refresher bumble through the menus again to remind myself of what's there :D

posted: 16 Oct 2012 00:32

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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A bit late joining this thread, but attached is a curved scissors in O-MF from Plan Y

Ian
Attachment: attach_1514_2056_Coulsdon_Scissors.box     345



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