Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 6 Feb 2013 22:59 from: Richard_Jones
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Hi, Does anyone have experience of sticking C&L chairs to ply sleepers, and whether it is advisable to stain the sleepers first, or after gluing the chairs on? many thanks Richard |
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posted: 6 Feb 2013 23:06 from: alan@york click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Yes, and they're very robust: I used cheap superglue which was only underneath the chairs, with no seepage. Strictly I used proper wood, rather than ply, - obechi, which is sold in the correct sizes for sleepers and timbers in 4mm. Try your local doll's house emporium. |
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posted: 6 Feb 2013 23:47 from: mike47j click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
I did not like the idea of doing this at first but it others said it worked OK, so I tried it. No problem. I use the C&L ply timber strip and chairs with lots of Butanone (plumbers plastic pipe cleaner) near an open window. I stain the ply with a dark oak wood stain before cutting the timbers and then retouch the ends after attaching them to the template. Mike Johnson |
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 08:26 from: JFS
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Ditto, BUT IMHO you must solder the crossing assemblies using thin strips of 0.6mm thick nickel silver which can then be glued in place at assembly time - don't try to hold wing rails in alignment with hacked-about chairs as I have seen advocated elsewhere! It is often asked how you make adjustments later - in truth, it is easy - just slip a scalpel blade under the chairs and the joint can be broken and re-made (of course this will not be necessary in your case nor mine) however, this is not possible with plastic sleepers - such a joint is permanent! Cheers, Howard |
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 08:55 from: wcampbell23
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This has worked very well for me in 7mm scale although I used the Exactoscale chairs and C+L ply timbering. I coloured the timbering with a mix of diluted Humbrol matt black and one of their browns after glueing to the Templot printout but before attaching the chairs. I used Plastic Weld as the solvent. The Vs were made up before laying on to the thin 1mm copperclad that C+L supply. Slightly larger than needed sections of the copperclad were glued on to the timbers with Evo-Stik to accommodate the parts of the common crossings which were made up in situ using gauges. The V and other parts of the common crossing were soldered to the copperclad and finished with cosmetic chairs after trimming the excess copperclad with a slitting disc. The ply timbering really does look much better than plastic! Regards Bill Campbell. P.S. - You can split chairs and plastic sleepers with a fine knife blade and make adjustments - been there, done that on a refurbishment project. |
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| Last edited on 7 Feb 2013 08:59 by wcampbell23 |
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 09:22 from: Paul Boyd
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Just to quickly chip in here (I'm supposed to be working!), I'll also add to the comments that this is a perfectly acceptable method and produces very strong track. I always stained the timbers first, but make sure they're absolutely dry before attempting to bond the chairs (using Butanone) to the timbers. My one reservation, which is why I've switched to Masokits etched brass chairs, is that the track formation needs the template to hold it in shape. This isn't a problem of course if you're building in situ, or using the template as part of the track formation. I should say that this is simply down to personal preference - I just like to be able to look at the finished track without any scruffy templates attached  Slide chairs were a problem until I discovered Loctite 435. When cleaned properly, you will not be able to remove the slide chair from the rail without breaking the chair and chiseling off the remains. I know from experience... Finally, I'll endorse Howard's comments about using etch waste to hold crossing assemblies together - absolutely vital. Right - back to work  Edited to stain timbers, not chairs  |
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| Last edited on 7 Feb 2013 10:57 by Paul Boyd |
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 09:30 from: Dave Summers
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I suspect that Paul stains his sleepers rather than his chairs! | ||
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 10:56 from: Paul Boyd
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I suspect that Paul stains his sleepers rather than his chairs!Er, yes!! Whoops |
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 12:28 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
wcampbell23 wrote: Yes, I use plastic chairs and plastic sleepers in 3mm scale. A dab of Plastic Weld at the edge is enough for it to seep under the chairs and fix things. A thin blade is enough to part the two if adjustment is necessary. I must confess I don't join up the crossing with extra bits of scrap. I've not had any problem. However, prefabricating the crossing does have its attractions and I might try this the next time I build some track. Nigel |
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 16:47 from: Trevor Walling
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Hello, I have a question regarding ply sleepers and plastic chair.Do people building to 00-FS use shorter timber sleepers for plain track or use scale length timbers as with EM and P4? Trevor. |
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posted: 7 Feb 2013 17:24 from: Martin Wynne
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Trevor Walling wrote: I have a question regarding ply sleepers and plastic chair. Do people building to 00-FS use shorter timber sleepers for plain track or use scale length timbers as with EM and P4?Hi Trevor, If you set 00-SF in Templot you will see that the sleepers shorten to 8ft long (32mm) instead of 8ft-6in for EM and P4. This is the usual convention which most 00 builders follow (as originally specified in the 00-BF spec by the BRMSB). But you can of course change it to whatever you want. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 8 Feb 2013 15:18 from: JohnM
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I may be a little late in replying to the use of C&L chairs on plywood sleepers. I have used both C&L and Exactoscale chairs for a number of years. Both were originally designed by the same person, and these two enterprises have recently amalgamated. In both cases I have 'glued' the chairs to plywood sleepers using butanone, The sleepers were stained afterwards. However I notice the 'new' plywood lengths (C&L) which I obtain from the EM Society come pre stained. This has caused no problems. Hence, stain before or after, makes no difference using butanone. Incidentally, if mounting your sleepers on Templot, I would stain the template before you ballast, otherwise bits of white may show through, how do I know, tea shirt comes to mind? I attach the sleepers using copydex. Using butanone and copydex, I find I can easily remove either chairs and / or sleepers and reuse, using an appropriate craft knife blade, e.g. Exacto No 18, SM 17. Very necessary for final track adjustments. Doubt whether superglue is so easily adjusted. I also find it advisable on some occasions to use the 'rivet method' (Brooke-Smith), these are drilled into the sleeper and the rail is soldered. The plastic chairs are used cosmetically. Useful for check rails, end of board joints, especially if layout is portable. Rivets can be obtained from EM Society (no doubt other sources), two sizes, brass and copper. The former are of a slightly larger diameter, latter intended for P4 use, but I prefer. Finally, if poss, I would try to visit a 'scale exhibition,' where demos are usually available. Hope my ramblings are of some use. Regards, John M |
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posted: 9 Feb 2013 16:03 from: Stephen Freeman
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Hi, Whilst I sometimes use rivets, the only drawback is hiding them with the cosmetic chairs. Nowadays I prefer to use a special super glue when gluing to plywood (Plastizap) as it forms a better bond without making the chairs brittle as some other superglues do. Works with plastic timbering too. If you need to soften it, super glue remover will do the job but be careful not to melt the chairs. |
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