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page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Trackbuilding topics > Masokits Etched Brass Chairs
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                                       Masokits Etched Brass Chairs
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 23 Jul 2013 23:40
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from:
Charles Orr
Leicester, United Kingdom

 

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Hi

I've been researching the use of these fold up brass chairs and found a lot of information here on the Templot site as well as RMWeb.

There appear to be articles in two issues of MRJ (119 and 162)  that explain how they are used as well as providing designs for  jigs for folding them.

I am a current subscriber to MRJ but did not start until issue 169 :(.

I wonder if there is some kind soul out there who could supply  me with  photocopies or scans of these articles.

I would of course be happy to reimburse any costs involved.

Best regards

Charles

 

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2nd message | this message only posted: 24 Jul 2013 09:39
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from:
R C Lake
 

 

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The articles show a slightly quirky way of doing things - unnecessarily complicated in my opinion. I found the Masokits instructions far more useful, to be honest.

The system is very good, even though the chairs are not quite as 3 dimensional as cast or moulded chairs. The finished product is very strong and easily adjustable. The tedium of folding the chairs is the only real down side. I find it best to fold them all up in a batch rather than do them individually as required.

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3rd message | this message only posted: 24 Jul 2013 13:25
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Charles

I sort of agree with "RC" in that the articles suggest what seems to be a slightly odd way of doing things, but John Hayes' little jig for forming the chairs I found invaluable.  That was just about the most useful thing I got from the article, and there's a photo of the one I made here.  It's just a piece of rail soldered to a lump of brass allowing the foot of the chair to pass underneath, so that you can make the fold on the jig instead of the track.  One end is open to allow slide chairs to go under the rail.  I also find this makes it easier to batch-fold the chairs, which I have to agree is total and utter tedium!  More photos of track built with this method on my website page.  It's up to you to decide whether the lack of 3D detail with the Masokits system is noticeable - I don't think it is from a normal viewing distance.

Otherwise, Masokits' instructions are pretty good, but it does take a while to get the hang of which bit is which.  If you still want copies of the articles, you can usually get back-issues from eBay or WSP at shows, which also avoids any copyright problems!

Hope this helps!

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4th message | this message only posted: 24 Jul 2013 13:38
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from:
Charles Orr
Leicester, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Paul

Many thanks for that information.

I've now put an order in the post for some.

Do you have a preferred way of soldering track (to chairs?) to sleepers?

Best regards

Charles

 

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5th message | this message only posted: 24 Jul 2013 14:49
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Charles
Do you have a preferred way of soldering track (to chairs?) to sleepers?Not really!  I just position the rail and chair, then solder the lot in one go with plenty of Green Label flux to help the solder flow right through - the etch is designed to help the solder flow.  One tip I picked up here was to varnish the templates before trackbuilding - you can then wash the whole lot under a tap (or in the bath!) after each session to keep it all clean.  I prefer liquid flux to paste flux for track as it easier to clean off around all the nooks and crannies.

I've also discovered that it's best to start soldering a length of rail at one end and work your way along, rather than from each to the middle, for instance.  Don't let it all get too hot though otherwise you'll still end up with expansion problems.  To be honest, I'm still trying to optimise that aspect, so if anyone else has any ideas, I'll be glad to hear them!

Cheers

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6th message | this message only posted: 24 Jul 2013 15:05
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from:
Charles Orr
Leicester, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks Paul, I'll give it a go when I've got all the bits.

By the way, are we both in Leicestershire?

Some of the pictures on your web site suggest this.

Best regards

Charles

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7th message | this message only posted: 24 Jul 2013 15:35
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from:
GeoffJones
Shropshire, United Kingdom

 

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Paul Boyd wrote: Hi Charles

I've also discovered that it's best to start soldering a length of rail at one end and work your way along, rather than from each to the middle, for instance.  Don't let it all get too hot though otherwise you'll still end up with expansion problems.  To be honest, I'm still trying to optimise that aspect, so if anyone else has any ideas, I'll be glad to hear them!

Paul

If you are soldering in situ on the layout then solder every third or fourth sleeper and work your way right along the length, then start again on each second sleeper etc. This way the rail never gets too hot.

If you work your way along soldering each sleeper the rail does get quite hot and although it may not cause you any problems as you work it will have expanded slightly and as it cools all those joints will be under stress.

If you are soldering single lengths on the bench it shouldn't make any difference.

Geoff

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8th message | this message only posted: 25 Jul 2013 15:08
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Charles asked: By the way, are we both in Leicestershire? I moved up here a few years ago, to the Loughborough area.



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9th message | this message only posted: 25 Jul 2013 15:13
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Geoff

Thanks for the info.  Although I tend to work "on the bench", in practise this is a temporary bench (a slab of Contiboard) that may be 6ft long and slid across the dining table as I progress, so probably not much different to working on the layout.  I've just ordered another batch of chairs from Masokits so I'll try your method when they eventually arrive!

Cheers

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10th message | this message only posted: 25 Jul 2013 17:10
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Hi Paul

In a long length of soldering, I use the method that I learnt when welding, start at the centre and work out to the ends, possibly every forth or fifth sleeper first to tack the rail in place and the go back to the centre and work you way out again, until all is soldered, this keeps the heat in one place to a minimum. On really big welding jobs we stuck it in a big oven and warmed it all up before starting and put it back in to cool slowly to stop the distortion.

Cheers Phil


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11th message | this message only posted: 15 Jun 2016 10:55
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Paul

Is there a new link to your web pages please as the earlier one is now not working

Thanks

John
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12th message | this message only posted: 15 Jun 2016 13:53
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi John

All those years ago I made the mistake of deep linking into my website, and as I've changed host those links no longer work.  My website is here. Click the Albums tab then scroll down to the Shotley album, passing many other interesting albums on the way!  Unless I change my name, that link should always work.

I've drifted away from railway modelling to some extent, but the interest is still there.  I just found I had so many things going on that I never got anything finished!

Best regards

Paul
(Edit - I've added my website to my profile)
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13th message | this message only posted: 15 Jun 2016 14:43
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Many thanks Paul. Some great trackbuilding in that album. :)

John, the Masokits pictures start about half-way down the Shotley album. Here's just one of them:


image linked from: http://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3814/11270434624_9c4bb45445_b.jpg

Excellent work Paul. But for clockwork, battery, or live steam? :)

Martin.
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14th message | this message only posted: 15 Jun 2016 16:42
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin!
Gaps in copperclad are so unsightly!!!

Martin Wynne wrote:
Excellent work Paul. But for clockwork, battery, or live steam? :)

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15th message | this message only posted: 17 Jun 2016 15:43
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Paul
I agree with you about the gaps in copperclad, but I offered to build one turnout just for the experience of building one. One thing I have done is to gap the sleepers before I start soldering, and then fill the gaps with filler and sand it flat, as its so much easier to do this without any rails in the way. You can also test the work whilst building it under power
I also sometimes use the odd copperclad timber in a chaired turnout, using a packing piece of 0.6 mm double sided copperclad strip (this insulates the rail from the timber providing cast chairs are not used) as a riser
Thanks for the album, certainly a very realistic and impressive bit of building
As for the use of these parts, the jury is out as far as I am concerned. Plastic chairs I think look better, but that's my own view.
John
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16th message | this message only posted: 18 Jun 2016 13:34
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from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

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We should remember that the Masokits etch system is very old now. At the time it was introduced many people were soldering rail direct to sleepers or using rivets in wooden sleepers, with just a blob of solder to represent the chairs.
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17th message | this message only posted: 18 Jun 2016 14:21
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Ariels Girdle wrote: We should remember that the Masokits etch system is very old now. At the time it was introduced many people were soldering rail direct to sleepers or using rivets in wooden sleepers, with just a blob of solder to represent the chairs.
Thanks for that, but I remember buying C&L chairs 30+ years ago, the copyright on the 2 bolt etches are 1999, though they may well have been earlier examples of the etches.
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