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topic: 2342Help With First Track Plan
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posted: 12 Nov 2013 10:31

from:

Chris Dark
 
 

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Hi all, I am very new to the world of handbuilt trackwork and Templot, I have decided to stop designing my 18X4ft peco code 75 layout in favour of a 8x4ft P4. I have made this decision as I feel I would gain more satisfaction, plus the fact is is more achievable project.

I have come up with a design which gives me some usability but I would like some help/advice on some of my track settings:

Firstly the points at the far end of the run-around loop look far too long. I had drawn up a rough plan in Scarm to give myself an idea of layout which I then sketched over. Can somebody explain how I can shorten the points but keep the curve of the track?

My second question is how to add a straight piece of track. I created a separate piece by adding a branch from an existing point then moving using the f7 command and snapping onto the end of another piece. But I can't get any closer to be straight then visual.

I have attached the plan as I hope this will help to answer my queries, also please feel free to offer advice on any other areas that I haven't done properly. Like I said this is my first ever Templot design so expect that I have made unrecognised errors along the way.

Thanks
Attachment: attach_1685_2342_8ft_box.box     377

posted: 12 Nov 2013 13:51

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Chris Dark wrote:
Firstly the points at the far end of the run-around loop look far too long. I had drawn up a rough plan in Scarm to give myself an idea of layout which I then sketched over. Can somebody explain how I can shorten the points but keep the curve of the track?

My second question is how to add a straight piece of track. I created a separate piece by adding a branch from an existing point then moving using the f7 command and snapping onto the end of another piece. But I can't get any closer to be straight then visual.
Chris,

To shorten the length of your crossover,  you could try altering the crossings to a lower number - like 1:7 or 1:6.   As you go to the lower numbers,  the radius of the turnout road will lessen and how far you go will depend on what minimum radius you can stand.   If you have the template information box showing (F2 toggle) you will see the minimum radius displayed as you vary the crossing angle.   You can also try changing the type of switch used - say from the REA semi-curved B switch you have used to something like the shorter straight heel switches (select from Template/Switch Settings).

For straight track you can use the Quick function - Ctrl-Q - which gives you the option to select straight, plain track.  Or you can select a piece of already curved track,  select track curving (F6) and enter a slash - "/" in the radius box which will alter your track to be straight.

NB:  By select,  I mean delete to control.   These damned Windows commands keep cropping up. :D

Jim.

posted: 12 Nov 2013 21:46

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
For straight track you can use the Quick function - Ctrl-Q - which gives you the option to select straight, plain track.  Or you can select a piece of already curved track,  select track curving (F6) and enter a slash - "/" in the radius box which will alter your track to be straight.
Or just click geometry > straight menu item. :)

Martin.

posted: 14 Nov 2013 04:25

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Chris Dark wrote:
Firstly the points at the far end of the run-around loop look far too long.

Can somebody explain how I can shorten the points but keep the curve of the track?
Hi Chris,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

The easiest way to make the control template dead straight is to click the geometry > straight menu item.

Your crossover is using B-8 turnouts. That is a good prototype size for a release crossover, but in a restricted space you may want to use something a bit shorter, say B-6.5

To change the size of a turnout without changing the curving, use the F5 size mouse action. Then to position it within the template use the the CTRL+F9 roam mouse action. These basic mouse actions are also available on the beginner buttons at the top of the trackpad.

I have made you a bit of Jing video showing how to do this -- see:

message 15592

(Jing screen videos are scruffy because there is no means to edit them. Sorry about that, but they are very much quicker to do than a proper video tutorial.)

You seem to be wanting 7ft way for your run-round loop spacing, so I increased the spacing from the default 6ft way by 4mm to 48.67mm for the crossover, as you can see in the video. (The model scale for 00/EM/P4 is 4mm per ft.)*

For the turnout at the start of the loop you have used a left-hand turnout. It would be very much better to use a right-hand turnout there, so that there is no switch deflection in the running line. I will make a separate video shortly showing how to do that and re-align the existing templates.

You may find it helpful to watch this beginner video. It is a bit out-of-date now but shows all the most common mouse actions:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/flash/starter/em_starter.html

Please note that the F10 swell mouse action shown there is now CTRL+F10, more about that here:

 http://templot.com/companion/index.html?swell_function_ctrl_f10.htm

* I have to include this basic info in replies because we have readers all over the world.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 14 Nov 2013 11:43

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Chris,

Here is the next video.

This one shows how to shift a group of templates into alignment with some other template, using the notch-linking functions. I then inserted a right-hand template to start the run-round loop in place of your previous left-hand one, and created the return curve into the loop.

Note that in adjusting the existing loop template to the return curve I made a mistake, using F4 overall length instead of F3 approach length mouse action. The video shows how I corrected that using several clicks on the undo changes button (blue left-arrow). There isn't a beginner button for F3, so I pressed the F3 key -- the video can't show me doing that. (All the mouse actions are also available in the action menus if you don't have the F keys on your keyboard).

Here is the video:

 message 15594

I'm sorry the video is so scruffy. If I made a proper video from it I could edit out the fumbles and add some notes and explanations. Unfortunately it would take me all day to do that and at present I am very short of Templot time.

You still have a misalignment between the turnout templates at the crossover into the sidings. In the next video I will show how to correct that.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Nov 2013 10:26

from:

Chris Dark
 
 

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Hi Martin, thank you very much for you help. I will have a look at the videos when I am home from work tonight. As I learn more about Templot it is really quite enjoyable producing trackwork so i am "playing" most of the time just to see what can be achieved.

posted: 16 Nov 2013 11:36

from:

Andrew Duncan
 
Reigate - United Kingdom

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Hello Chris and Martin,

Martin

I've attached Chris's plan that I've tried to copy what you did to correct/revise it. I was particularly interested in the Notch Under function that I still don't really understand, but following your video I made it work I think. However when I came to adding the return curve in the loop it doesn't match the track coming from the heel of the point as it should.

I think that this maybe because I haven't got the Track Centre correct? However I have corrected it I think and it doesn't seem to have the effect I'd expect which would be to push the return curve out by 4mm? 

I'd really like to understand what I've done wrong here and on the previous point about Notching do you have a favourite video that explains the principles? For that matter I've another question which is "what is the difference between -make the control- and -delete to control-? You seem to use "delete to control" most of the time in both these videos.

Hope that things are improving for you.

Kind regards

Andrew


Attachment: attach_1686_2342_8_box_Andrew_Duncans_version.box     348

posted: 16 Nov 2013 12:55

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Andrew,

You changed the track centre spacing on the return curve after you created it. That will only affect any subsequent templates derived from it.

To create the proper return curve, you needed to set the required TS spacing on the turnout before creating the return curve. In this case that means you should delete turnout TR047 to the control, change the TS spacing to 48.67mm, and then make the return curve.

I didn't need to do that in the video because I derived that turnout template from one on which I had already made the changed spacing setting (in the previous video), i.e.

engine release turnout,
split off the exit track,
extend it to the required length,
insert turnout in it,

and consequently the TS side spacing remained as I had set it for the engine release turnout (in the previous video -- after first trying a crossover at 6ft way and seeing that the spacing was insufficient).

In your version you seem not to have followed that sequence -- template TR047 is overlaid on the underlying one and still has the original 44.67mm default setting.

The notes about the notch-linking functions are at:

  http://templot.com/martweb/gs_geometry.htm#shift_group_notch

and again at:

  http://templot.com/companion/index.html?gs_geometry.htm#shift_group_notch

Like so much of the web site they are long out of date, but the basic functions remain the same.

I've another question which is "what is the difference between -make the control- and -delete to control-? You seem to use "delete to control" most of the time in both these videos.
copy to the control = copy the clicked background template to replace the existing control template. The background template remains unchanged but hidden below the new control template which will now be superimposed over it. (The assumption is that you are going to move the control template, although sometimes you may copy a background template simply to see its data in the info panel.)

wipe to the control = copy the clicked background template to replace the existing control template. The background template will then become an unused template. It remains in the storage box and the .box file, but it is not visible on the trackpad. As an unused template it can be easily restored to use if you find that you need it later.

delete to the control = copy the clicked background template to replace the existing control template. The background template will then be deleted from the storage box and from the .box file. The control template must be stored again at some stage if it is to remain a part of the track plan.

make the control = store the existing control template, then as delete to the control. This is simply for convenience if you know you are going to first store the control template and then delete another one to the control. With make the control Templot does both functions in one go -- this is handy to swap between two or more templates when for example shoving timbers or adjusting check rails, and when working with partial templates.

Note that it contains the word "make". All the functions containing the word "make" work the same way, i.e. they store the existing control template before doing something else. For example tools > make return curve first stores the turnout template.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 19 Nov 2013 15:04

from:

Chris Dark
 
 

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Hi Martin,
Thanks again for your help and advice, I have started again on the layout incorporating my newly found knowledge as well as your advice and video help.

I hope my final stepping stone before printing is just to sort out the sleepers, I have a gap at the return loop which I heard in tutorial Templot leaves so you can amend the area at the end, unfortunately the tutorial didn't go on as far as to explain how we do it. Also I have sleepers that overlap.

Can you advise on the best way to tidy things up please?

I would like to use chairs for the rails but after a test print they don't seem to appear, how do I go about getting a placing for these?

I hope I am not too much trouble.
Attachment: attach_1692_2342_Test_2.box     358

posted: 20 Nov 2013 21:23

from:

Andrew Duncan
 
Reigate - United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

Many thanks for your latest explanations to my questions about the return curves and the different ways to save templates and their different consequences. Those and the short cuts to the tutorials are much appreciated.

Kind regards
Andrew

posted: 21 Nov 2013 23:02

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Chris Dark wrote:
I hope my final stepping stone before printing is just to sort out the sleepers, I have a gap at the return loop which I heard in tutorial Templot leaves so you can amend the area at the end, unfortunately the tutorial didn't go on as far as to explain how we do it. Also I have sleepers that overlap.

Can you advise on the best way to tidy things up please?

I would like to use chairs for the rails but after a test print they don't seem to appear, how do I go about getting a placing for these?
Hi Chris,

You are asking for a detailed guide to turnout timbering and the timber shoving functions in Templot. I'm afraid at present I'm unable to write this, I'm just too tired tonight. Hopefully someone else will be able to step in. As a starting guide, click the real > shove timbers... menu item in Templot, and then click the ? help button at the top right of the dialog. There is a lot of track information in Templot if you go looking for it.

At present because of a serious family illness I am spending most of every day hospital visiting. This means I can't answer more than basic yes-no questions about Templot at present. Sorry. This situation is likely to last for some time.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 22 Nov 2013 08:53

from:

Chris Dark
 
 

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Sorry to hear that Martin.

I have posted a thread along these lines at RMweb where somebody advised me on the shove timbers so that will be my next project. thanks again for your help and I hope everything sorts itself out for you.

posted: 22 Nov 2013 09:44

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Chris Dark wrote:
I have posted a thread along these lines at RMweb where somebody advised me on the shove timbers so that will be my next project.
Hi Chris,

See my reply at:

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78917-help-with-timber-setting-out/#entry1235746

with some updated (easier) instructions for Templot2.

regards,

Martin.



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