Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 2373Crash after Hibernate
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posted: 8 Jan 2014 20:08

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin,
I know you have other priorities, but when you have a mo...
I was hoping to do some work with Templot at my club evening where there is no internet, so I hibernated Templot at home.  When I woke my machine up, Templot appeared to be working, but any attempt at input resulted in this error:-
undefinedundefined1129_081505_350000000.jpg1129_081505_350000000.jpg

This includes attempting to close the window, so the only way out was Task Manager to kill the app.
My machine runs Win 7 64b on Intel processors.
Sorry to bring a problem...

Best wishes,

Howard

posted: 8 Jan 2014 20:35

from:

John Lewis
 
Croydon - United Kingdom

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When I woke my machine up, Templot appeared to be working, but any attempt at input resulted in this error:-

Howard,

What does the error say, please? I can't read it!

Best wishes

John

posted: 8 Jan 2014 20:57

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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John Lewis wrote:

What does the error say, please? I can't read it!



It is readable in the uploaded image, but here is the critical bit  :-)
1129_081556_350000000.jpg1129_081556_350000000.jpg

Cheers.


posted: 9 Jan 2014 11:16

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Howard,

I'm sorry, I don't have an answer and I don't know where to look. I have three systems here, all of which Hibernate and Resume without any problems, including Windows7 64-bit. However, they are all running on AMD processors.

A couple of possible ideas which may or may not help:

1. Before hibernating, start Templot with Run As Administrator.

2. Before hibernating, access the sketchboard at least once.

I'm not feeling positive about Templot these days. There is just too much hassle. I write code; I test it here; it works; I upload it for anyone who wants to try it; I do my best to explain it. I want that to be the end of my involvement. If it doesn't work for someone else or they can't understand it, don't use it.

Martin.

posted: 9 Jan 2014 11:47

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Howard

This isn't necessarily a Templot problem - it happens when two programs both try to access the same block of memory where one of them has failed in some way, not necessarily the one giving the error.  It could just as easily be one of the many background programs causing the issue - anti-virus programs seem to come in for a bit of stick regarding this.

Does this happen every time the machine comes out of hibernation, or just occasionally?  It looks like you have Word running - was that also running when you hibernated?  Do you get the error if Templot is the only program running when you hibernate? (apart from background stuff)

Martin - you're not alone in writing programs that apparently don't always work on every computer, although in this case it probably isn't a Templot issue.  Microsoft, for instance...   a particular annoyance for me was their SkyDrive as implemented on Windows 8.1 - it simply doesn't sync, making it useless - back to Win 7 on that machine!
or they can't understand it
Your patience levels on that score lately have been nothing short of astonishing.  Beyond the call of duty, in my opinion :shock:

posted: 9 Jan 2014 15:04

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,
I think you do a marvelous job with Templot.Your efforts far exceed those of Microsoft when it comes to sorting out problems for windows users.Perhaps you should refer people with problems using windows to the Microsoft organization.They have resources in the Billions and the staff employed for that purpose.I can't help noticing that you seem to be inundated with windows problems more and more.Perhaps it would be a good idea to advise people with problems using windows that you do not provide services for Microsoft.Perhaps if Microsoft spent more effort in making their current products more fault free instead of introducing another batch of gremlins people would be able to use mature software like yours without so many issues.
Trevor.

posted: 9 Jan 2014 15:44

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Howard,

I'm sorry, I don't have an answer and I don't know where to look. I have three systems here, all of which Hibernate and Resume without any problems, including Windows7 64-bit. However, they are all running on AMD processors.

A couple of possible ideas which may or may not help:

1. Before hibernating, start Templot with Run As Administrator.

2. Before hibernating, access the sketchboard at least once.

I'm not feeling positive about Templot these days. There is just too much hassle. I write code; I test it here; it works; I upload it for anyone who wants to try it; I do my best to explain it. I want that to be the end of my involvement. If it doesn't work for someone else or they can't understand it, don't use it.

Martin.
Hello Martin,
Well I was only submitting the info in case it was useful - not to complain, nor in expectation of a fix!  I for one am prepared to take Templot it for what it is!
I am admin on my machine, but I had not accessed the sketchboard - so that is one for me to try.

As one who publishes software myself I understand both the frustrations and the usefulness of user feedback!

Mine is here should anyone wish to pull it to bits!
http://www.blockpostsoftware.com

Best wishes,
Howard



posted: 9 Jan 2014 16:26

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Howard,

I'm sorry, I don't have an answer and I don't know where to look. I have three systems here, all of which Hibernate and Resume without any problems, including Windows7 64-bit. However, they are all running on AMD processors.

A couple of possible ideas which may or may not help:

1. Before hibernating, start Templot with Run As Administrator.

2. Before hibernating, access the sketchboard at least once.

I'm not feeling positive about Templot these days. There is just too much hassle. I write code; I test it here; it works; I upload it for anyone who wants to try it; I do my best to explain it. I want that to be the end of my involvement. If it doesn't work for someone else or they can't understand it, don't use it.

Martin.
Hello Martin,
                   Have you thought about recruiting some volunteers from the forum to assist in answering peoples questions in order to ease your workload?I am sure there are members who would be willing to help.You never seem to sleep and the speed of your replies on many occasions is so quick other members don't have time to respond.Most forums don't rely on one person alone and I think letting a few people assist you would help you to feel more positive about what is after all an amazing  creation for modellers to use.
Trevor.

posted: 9 Jan 2014 16:33

from:

John Lewis
 
Croydon - United Kingdom

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Howard wrote:

> Mine is here should anyone wish to pull it to bits!



Howard 
 
 Did you mean , please? :-))
 
 
John
 

posted: 9 Jan 2014 16:34

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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the speed of your replies on many occasions is so quick other members don't have time to respond
Trevor has hit the nail on the head there, and this has come up before.  I for one like to ponder a question before attempting an answer, by which time Martin has usually answered it :?

I do have a low tolerance threshold for people who won't help themselves though, or those seeking basic help in how to drive Windows...

posted: 9 Jan 2014 16:39

from:

John Lewis
 
Croydon - United Kingdom

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John Lewis wrote:
Howard wrote:

> Mine is here should anyone wish to pull it to bits!
http://www.blockpostsoftware.com"


Howard 
 
 Did you mean http://www.blockpostsoftware.co.uk , please? :-
John   I seem to be having trouble with the reply


posted: 9 Jan 2014 18:32

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Thought the whole point of the forum was that anybody who could assist was here to do so. Maybe it would help if people with problems didn't address them specifically to Martin. Perhaps when people do we should suggest they address them to the whole forum.

Just a thought.
Nigel

posted: 9 Jan 2014 20:53

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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This is the sort of thing I seem to be up against, typical of comments on various forums these days:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79740-lswrsr-bodmin-town-station/page-2?hl=templot

First of all an assumption that Templot is too difficult for ordinary mortals, and then words put into my mouth.

I have never said that Templot is optimized for creating individual templates rather than track planning. I have simply said that is its primary intended function. That doesn't mean it is non-optimal for its secondary function of track planning.

Perhaps I should ignore such things, and I intend to do so in future. I'm weary of replying and correcting misinformation about Templot. I had to do the same on the Scalefour Society forum a few days ago.

I do find it so unfair to beginners for them to start off with misunderstandings, but perhaps it is simply the way of the world.

Martin.

posted: 9 Jan 2014 21:17

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,
Are you going anywhere nice for your holidays this year.Seriously it sounds like you could do with a break.I am sure people would still find using Templot possible even if you took more of a back seat and just let people get on with using it to the best of their own ability.
Unfortunately people will always want more whatever you give and the only person that can draw the line is yourself.Perhaps if you stopped continuously developing Templot people who use it could get up to date with its use more easily.As far as I am aware there is nothing else available that enables modellers to produce trackwork in such a realistic manner.Best wishes.
Trevor. :)

posted: 10 Jan 2014 09:19

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin

People will always misunderstand or not attempt to understand any software, and they will always spread their misconceptions far and wide.  The model railway word especially seems full of froth - just look at the complaints about new model releases not being quite right (heaven forbid doing any actual modelling to make it how you want it!!), and Hornby being forced to backtrack on detail to satisfy the minorities who complain about pricing.  There's nothing you can do about that and it sounds like you're falling into a dark place in trying to do so.  Just let them get on with it!  Anyone serious about using Templot will find their way to this forum.

That link to RMWeb showed another classic case:-
Now I need to download Templot and see if there is any chance of me being able to work it. The track is interesting as I thought there were 2 double slips and a single one.
Apprently no previous history of Templot use, and straight away wanting to make double slips!  I do accept that this particular poster may very well be prepared to spend the time learning Templot, but typically people just "Say I've installed Templot, I can't create Clapham Junction overnight so Templot is rubbish."  Again, just leave them to it.  If they're not prepared to put the effort into learning it, why should anyone put in the effort to help them?  I wonder just how many people are using Templot quite happily, compared to those vocal minority who complain about it?

Once again, I agree with Trevor :) Take a break!





posted: 10 Jan 2014 09:20

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Trevor Walling wrote:
Seriously it sounds like you could do with a break.
Hello Trevor,

Re-reading my replies yesterday I think you are right. The men in white coats are on their way.

Thanks for your concern. I'm ok today. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Jan 2014 09:57

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Thanks Paul. :)

We seem to have strayed off Howard's problem, to which I still have no answer despite a couple of hours Googling. There are lots of Hibernate/Resume issues, but most relate to Windows not resuming at all, rather than in specific software. Also when running Windows in a virtual machine on Apple devices.

Well done for spotting that Howard was running Word at the same time. In my experience that awful program is the cause of more grief than any other software. Most developers believe it uses special undocumented Windows functions.

Howard, have you tried Hibernate/Resume when Templot is the only application running?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Jan 2014 12:13

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Another thing Howard might try is running Checkdisk on his machine. I suggest this from recent experience when I had to sort out an occasional BSOD on my daughter's laptop and the fault turned out to be bad sectors on her hard disk.

Jim.

posted: 10 Jan 2014 13:13

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:

Howard, have you tried Hibernate/Resume when Templot is the only application running?

Hello Martin,

I am really, really regretting posting my message.  It seems to have caused a mass response which was completely unintended.

Many thanks indeed for spending some time to try and find some solution but, as I should have made clearer from the start, I don't need one - my intent (which I clearly failed to communicate) was merely to supply a bit of data to help you in the event that there were other instances reported which might build up a picture should you feel there be any need to act.  Very sorry indeed that I was not clearer. 
Just  to make the picture more complete, 

1. I have not had this issue on more than "a few" occasions - I have not been counting, but only captured this event because it was not the first.2. I am not able to replicate the problem at will (therefore by definition it is not a "bug")
3. When it has happened, it has been after the first hibernate - after it has been successfully woken up once, I can hibernate it indefinitely.
4. The symptom which made me fear it might be a Templot, rather than a Windows issue was that the programme appeared to be running fine until I clicked some action when the MessageBox appeared, closing the message box, Templot would continue to run, including screen scrolling, zooming until an action (including Close) was clicked when the message would re-appear etc, etc.
5. I have no evidence that the running of other programs has any impact (on a sample size of two!)
6. I have never had any other hibernate-related crashes though I hibernate the machine a fair bit as it takes an age to reboot.

As I say, PLEASE salt this info away for future reference if needed - no further time to be spent on it.
Just BTW, I have never experienced any issues with Word, but XL is extremely flaky on my machine - trying to open a second workbook causes an "insufficient resources" crash (with 8Gb of RAM!). I don't expect Bill Gates will lose sleep over it

Given the comments in the thread it is an irony that I was taking Templot to our club night to show some of the doubters what it can do  - to the extent that I went wondering the streets to find a house with BT WiFi but none were in range! Hence my frustration.


Please focus on the positives!

Best wishes,

Howard
Edit - to put paras back
Last edited on 10 Jan 2014 15:18 by JFS
posted: 10 Jan 2014 13:15

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Sorry the message above is not more readable - it was paragraphed when I sent it.  My fault - I should use the recommended browser.

posted: 10 Jan 2014 13:59

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
I am really, really regretting posting my message. It seems to have caused a mass response which was completely unintended.
Hi Howard,

Many thanks for reporting it anyway. :)

I'm sorry the topic went off course -- my fault. I do tend to see red when I see what appears to be a Windows problem addressed to me. I am not Mr Gates and in fact my understanding of the inner workings of Windows is limited.

I don't believe there is anything I can change in Templot to fix this -- from your description it seems to be related to the Windows menu driver. This ties in with some other reports on the internet. You could try making active a window in Templot which is without a menu bar, such as the background shapes dialog, before Hibernating. Unfortunately because I can't make it happen here I can't test anything.

p.s. re: formatting -- in Google Chrome enter two blank lines to create a single blank line in the post. Don't ask.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Jan 2014 15:11

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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No worries Martin, many thanks for the helpful suggestions - will (carefully!) keep you posted!

Best wishes,

Howard.

posted: 10 Jan 2014 15:16

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
Another thing Howard might try is running Checkdisk on his machine. I suggest this from recent experience when I had to sort out an occasional BSOD on my daughter's laptop and the fault turned out to be bad sectors on her hard disk.

Jim.
Thanks Jim but it is definitely not that - mine is an SSD, so it would fail differently if it were failing!
Cheers,
Howard.

posted: 10 Jan 2014 16:02

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
This is the sort of thing I seem to be up against, typical of comments on various forums these days:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79740-lswrsr-bodmin-town-station/page-2?hl=templot

*SNIP*
Martin.


Martin,

It seems rmweb is the root of many problems. Some of the users of that forum are complete ignoramuses when it comes to being unable to complete the simplest of tasks and then resort to blaming everyone but themselves.

You know you have a loyal and grateful following here with the Temploteers :-)

Ian

posted: 10 Jan 2014 19:56

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Ian,

With over 20,000 members RMweb is bound to contain all sorts.

It's not all  :(  -- just posted:  :)  

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74006-derwent-lms-in-the-peak/page-3#entry1297699

Martin.

posted: 12 Jan 2014 21:07

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Ian,

With over 20,000 members RMweb is bound to contain all sorts.

It's not all  :(  -- just posted:  :)  

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74006-derwent-lms-in-the-peak/page-3#entry1297699

Martin.
...and also
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73991-small-plymouth-goods-in-p4/?p=1099840

Focus on the positives!
Cheers,
Howard

posted: 13 Jan 2014 02:43

from:

Godfrey Earnshaw
 
Crawley - United Kingdom

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I reported similar problem in ...> I found a flaw > "Version 2.07.a error message".  I came to the conclusion that it was caused by my dual headed video card. It only seems to occur after I have had the second monitor on. I still have the problem. I believe there is a memory clash with Templot but as Templot was there first I have left it and put up with the occasional message and subsequent restart.

Cheers

Godders
Last edited on 13 Jan 2014 02:45 by Godfrey Earnshaw


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