click here for a list of all existing Templot documentation
about Templot Club cookie information pre-print options:    

click image to open Templot Club in a new tab
Templot club top logo
looking for Templot? - (free)



 you are not logged in  - Login | Join


receive all messages by email: info


Recent Topics
Front Page  Search  Image Gallery  Gallery Upload  My Account  Members  Help  
make a donation  
please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors Templot Companion - User Guide
            messages archive on Yahoo
page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Share and show > Ludgate Hill North
Templot web site

                                       Ludgate Hill North
  Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page      
 Start new topic   Reply blank   Printer friendly 
  Rate this topic  
AuthorMessage
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
1st message | this message only posted: 8 Feb 2014 21:32
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello All,

I have been know to bang on about this particular bit of prototype track before and, having a bit of time by the PC this afternoon, could not resist having a play at it in Templot.  Given that the background image is just an OS map, it is interesting to see how the geometry works out.





I would really like to see a photo of this layout as it would be interesting to know just how some bits were built - but one has not yet surfaced. I would be very interested to hear people's views on the geometry and opinions on how it might have been built.

Only twenty two templates so far - just a few partial templates needed to finish it off...  Just in case anyone else fancies the challenge, I include the box and the shape files.

Best wishes,

Howard



__________
message ref: 16144
Attachment: Ludgate Hill_old_layout_attempt 1.box (Downloaded 143 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
2nd message | this message only posted: 8 Feb 2014 21:33
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
.. and bgs...

[might have been better if I had spelt the Topic Heading correctly!!  :(]

__________
message ref: 16145
Attachment: Ludgate hill old layout.bgs (Downloaded 129 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
3rd message | this message only posted: 8 Feb 2014 21:39
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
JFS wrote: .. and bgs...

[might have been better if I had spelt the Topic Heading correctly!!  :(]
Fixed. :)

__________
message ref: 16147

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
4th message | this message only posted: 8 Feb 2014 21:44
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Thanks Martin:-)
__________
message ref: 16148

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
5th message | this message only posted: 9 Feb 2014 11:51
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
OS maps are notoriously unreliable. "The Engineer" did a plan of before and after the rebuilding on 2/8/1907 - possibly from drawings supplied by the railway? These are reproduced in several publications. "The Engineer" article may give further details? I have never seen it - only the reproductions elsewhere.

Definitely a subject for building in the finer scales - P4 or S4 I would imagine.

Building the vast array of stock needed pre-1907 might be even more of a challenge than the track itself though.
__________
message ref: 16150

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 9 Feb 2014 12:43
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Ariels Girdle wrote: OS maps are notoriously unreliable. "The Engineer" did a plan of before and after the rebuilding on 2/8/1907 - possibly from drawings supplied by the railway? There are indeed discrepancies with the drawings from the Engineer and I also suspect that to be more reliable source. But I too would need to get hold of the original to be certain and in the meantime the OS source was easier to do!

I agree about the stock and certainly if it were to be built, only "dead scale" would do - which might even rule out P4!

Cheers,

Howard


__________
message ref: 16152

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
7th message | this message only posted: 9 Feb 2014 13:44
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
There are photos of other LCDR stations that might give a few clues - like Victoria and St Pauls (Blackfriars).

I suspect there would have been a fair bit of improvisation, especially as the track would likely have been relaid due to heavy usage between 1866 and before the junction was completely revised in 1907.

Pre-grouping trackwork is a sadly neglected area, but will always remain very mysterious, I suspect.
__________
message ref: 16153

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
8th message | this message only posted: 9 Feb 2014 14:01
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Ariels Girdle wrote: There are photos of other LCDR stations that might give a few clues - like Victoria and St Pauls (Blackfriars).

I suspect there would have been a fair bit of improvisation, especially as the track would likely have been relaid due to heavy usage between 1866 and before the junction was completely revised in 1907.

Pre-grouping trackwork is a sadly neglected area, but will always remain very mysterious, I suspect.
Fully agree, and the photos of Holborn viaduct show some pretty tight formations there also. 

I agree about pre-grouping track and the drift towards today's monotony started about 1923!!

Just for completeness, here is a pic which compares my box file with the scan from "The Engineer"



...not spot on, but surprisingly not too far out.

Cheers,

Howard



__________
message ref: 16154

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
9th message | this message only posted: 9 Feb 2014 14:48
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Looking at your original .box file, some of those curves are very tight, to say the plan is more or less to scale.

The design of the real thing must have caused a lot of head scratching. There are locking bars and other paraphernalia to fit in too. Presumably, knowing the LCDR, it was all done down to a budget.

Get your date right, and most of the sleepers would be covered in ballast though, which would neatly avoid a few headaches.
__________
message ref: 16155

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
10th message | this message only posted: 9 Feb 2014 17:39
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Tight they certainly are. Even after rebuilding, and the simplification at the time of electrification, some of the basic connections survived to be photographed and they really were as tight as they look. And as for short switches...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holborn_Viaduct_2020606.jpg

The LCDR was an enigma, yes they understood budgets, but equally, they had no right to put a railway here at all, and no expense was spared on the station frontage.

And they built Crystal Palace High Level!

Cheers,

Howard

__________
message ref: 16156

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
11th message | this message only posted: 11 Feb 2014 10:54
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
rodney_hills
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello,

Ludgate Hill is covered in Alan A Jackson's book "London's Termini", David & Charles 1969.
It reprints both the 1890s plan and the 1910 rebuilding plan from an article in the Dec 1964 Railway Magazine.
I have both book and magazine, but the latter article is online here: http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/
line: Ludgate Hill Station:
http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/LudgateHillStation.pdf

The article say that more detail of the 1910 rebuilding appears in the June 1910 Railway Magazine.

I'm sure I've seen a photo of the pointwork, but cannot recollect/locate at the moment.

Regards, Rodney Hills
__________
message ref: 16167

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
12th message | this message only posted: 11 Feb 2014 14:08
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
JFS wrote:The LCDR was an enigma, yes they understood budgets, but equally, they had no right to put a railway here at all, and no expense was spared on the station frontage.

And they built Crystal Palace High Level!

Cheers,

Howard
I think the LCDR used nominally independent companies to further its aims on some projects like the Crystal Palace branch  - lots of smaller bubbles, rather than one very large one.

Incidentally, how are you planning to draw the diamond crossings, as I thought Templot wouldn't create these automatically on transition curves? Just curious, as I want to learn!

__________
message ref: 16169

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
13th message | this message only posted: 11 Feb 2014 14:59
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Ariels Girdle wrote:Incidentally, how are you planning to draw the diamond crossings, as I thought Templot wouldn't create these automatically on transition curves?Hi Ariels Girdle,

Not automatically, but it's not difficult to do:

Move the peg to the intersection, then geometry > constant radius.

Repeat for the other track if it's also a transition.

make diamond-crossing

align the main road of each half-diamond over the underlying transition template.

Adjust the V-crossing angle using F9 mouse action on each half-diamond until it best aligns with the underlying templates. Don't change the K-crossing angle.

Not always a perfect fit, but usually close enough in practice. If you want a perfect fit, it's necessary to split out all the crossings onto partial templates, and copy the closure rails from the underlying templates.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 16170

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
14th message | this message only posted: 11 Feb 2014 16:44
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Ludgate Hill is covered along with Holborn Viaduct, St Paul and other stations of the line in the Middleton Press book 'Holborn Viaduct to Lewisham' ISBN 0-906520-81-9

Not too many early pics to give much clue as to the trackwork construction.

Rob


__________
message ref: 16171

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
15th message | this message only posted: 11 Feb 2014 18:55
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote: Ariels Girdle wrote:Incidentally, how are you planning to draw the diamond crossings, as I thought Templot wouldn't create these automatically on transition curves?Hi Ariels,

Not automatically, but it's not difficult to do:

Move the peg to the intersection, then geometry > constant radius.

Repeat for the other track if it's also a transition.

make diamond-crossing

align the main road of each half-diamond over the underlying transition template.

Adjust the V-crossing angle using F9 mouse action on each half-diamond until it best aligns with the underlying templates. Don't change the K-crossing angle.

Not always a perfect fit, but usually close enough in practice. If you want a perfect fit, it's necessary to split out all the crossings onto partial templates, and copy the closure rails from the underlying templates.

regards,

Martin.
Ta Martin - and sympathy for JFS ;)

__________
message ref: 16173

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
16th message | this message only posted: 11 Feb 2014 20:41
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
John Lewis
Croydon, United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Rob wrote:
Ludgate Hill is covered along with Holborn Viaduct, St Paul and other stations of the line in the Middleton Press book 'Holborn Viaduct to Lewisham' ISBN 0-906520-81-9

Not too many early pics to give much clue as to the trackwork construction.

The Engineer is available on line. For the Ludgate Hill plans see the issue of 6 Sep 1907:

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1907_Jul-Dec

There is a photo of the south end of St. Paul's station in "Railway Archive" No.34, page 56. The view is after 1908. There was also a view looking the other way on Page 50 of RA No.33. The one in RA34 was taken from the centre of one of the tracks so there is a good view of a tandem tunout and some other complicated trackwork.
__________
message ref: 16176

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
17th message | this message only posted: 12 Feb 2014 12:38
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Thanks to everyone for the prototype references - sadly nothing new yet but please keep em coming!

Ariels Girdle wrote: Ta Martin - and sympathy for JFS ;)

I was not going to do any detailing, but though I would give it a go for some of the more interesting bits - progress to date...



As you say Ariel, the transition curves present their challenges, and as martin says, the geometry is not 100% but it is a lot nearer than I could do with paper and scissors!

This is not the trickiest bit - I am leaving that till I have got my hand back in with Templot!

Best wishes,

Howard



__________
message ref: 16177

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
18th message | this message only posted: 12 Feb 2014 14:06
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Wow, that is really coming to life!

Not a criticism - just an observation - but the clearance between the 2 tracks going bottom left to upper right looks a bit tight.
__________
message ref: 16178

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
19th message | this message only posted: 12 Feb 2014 19:04
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Ariels Girdle wrote: Wow, that is really coming to life!

Not a criticism - just an observation - but the clearance between the 2 tracks going bottom left to upper right looks a bit tight
Many thanks.

Yes indeed - the locking must have been arranged to preclude conflicting movements.

Cheers,

Howard

__________
message ref: 16180

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
20th message | this message only posted: 12 Feb 2014 20:37
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Trevor Walling
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello,
It always amazes me how the results of drawings from engineers and cartographers are so accurate from those times.
Regards.
Trevor.
__________
message ref: 16181

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
21st message | this message only posted: 13 Feb 2014 01:03
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Chris Mitton
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
JFS wrote:   - progress to date...

This is not the trickiest bit - I am leaving that till I have got my hand back in with Templot!
Go on Howard, you know you really want to build this!    In P4.    With powered third rail.   And working locking / FPLs.....

Your Minories is pretty inspirational but this is just insane!
Regards
Chris

__________
message ref: 16183

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
22nd message | this message only posted: 13 Feb 2014 08:34
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Chris Mitton wrote: Go on Howard, you know you really want to build this!    In P4.    With powered third rail.   And working locking / FPLs.....

Your Minories is pretty inspirational but this is just insane!
Regards
Chris
Chris, thanks, you are very kind.   The only good news would be that it was not electrified until after simplification.

I am trying not to be distracted from Minories - but failing badly - then again, I need something to demo at Scalefour North / Scaleforum...

Now, get thee behind me Satan...

Best wishes,

Howard.


__________
message ref: 16184

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
23rd message | this message only posted: 13 Feb 2014 14:27
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
TimRKirby
Saint Paul, USA

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
John Lewis wrote:
Rob wrote:
The Engineer is available on line. For the Ludgate Hill plans see the issue of 6 Sep 1907:

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1907_Jul-Dec



Actually I think you'll find that the article on the alterations to Ludgate Hill station is on page 119 in the August 2nd issue

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/The_Engineer_1907/08/02

... because I was curious and I curse you because II was sucked in to The Engineer and I can see a lot more time being lost that way ;-)

Tim
__________
message ref: 16185

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
24th message | this message only posted: 25 Sep 2017 20:21
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Just to mention that I have just discovered that nls now have the 5 feet to the mile edition of London

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=20&lat=51.5139&lon=-0.1039&layers=163&b=1

Shows a bit more detail than the 40inch series, maybe not enough to build it!

Sorry if this is old news to many of you.

Best wishes,

Howard
__________
message ref: 22089

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
25th message | this message only posted: 25 Sep 2017 20:31
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Howard,

A lovely part of London it used to be too. Made me get out my Middleton Press Holborn to Lewisham book for a quick read tonight.

The view east from Fleet Street just isn't the same since they took the bridge down. Oh for the days when churches dominated the landscape.

Rob


__________
message ref: 22090

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
26th message | this message only posted: 25 Sep 2017 21:12
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Howard,

You haven't been paying attention. :)

I purchased an API subscription for these London maps, so that Templot can load them directly as tiled maps and scale them automatically to match your model scale.

It's working now in the latest version 215 (Templot will update itself), and was also written up in the latest issue of Scalefour News.

You can add and remove rows and columns of tiles at will. This means the map can be any size and is not restricted by the size of the screen as are screenshot maps. See bottom row of tiles loading:



background > maps menu item.

Templot can also now make screenshots for you from other NLS (and other) maps, and scale them for you.

But as usual, I'm still working on the actual docs for this. It should be fairly clear from the dialog. For the tiled maps it's easy:

1. enter a name

2. select a tiled map

3. specify the location. You can do that by pasting the URL from your browser.

4. click the load map button.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22091

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
27th message | this message only posted: 25 Sep 2017 21:57
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote: You haven't been paying attention. :)

...

regards,

Martin.
Hello Martin,

Maybe not for the first time ...

In truth, I have been following the development of the functionality - but overlooked the all-important detail about the map series!

Now all we need is a photo or two to understand how on earth this formation all worked...

I did a quick check and from the stops at Holborn Viaduct, to the far end of Ludgate Hill Train shed is 1350 feet (less than 20 feet in 4mm) ...  Rather less than the length of Moretonhampstead (1389ft.)...  Surely it must tempt someone :D

Keep up the good work!

Best wishes,

Howard

__________
message ref: 22092

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
28th message | this message only posted: 25 Sep 2017 22:29
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Howard,

That location is also available in 1951 version at 50"/mile, 1:1250:

 http://maps.nls.uk/view/102904585#zoom=5&lat=3272&lon=3081&layers=BT

Templot can make a screenshot and scale it for you. Paste the URL (into upper box) and follow the dialogs.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22093

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
29th message | this message only posted: 26 Sep 2017 08:28
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Martin,

Many thanks for this of course the layout is not quite as interesting as that which existed pre-1910...

But I must resist the temptation to get distracted from current modelling tasks!

Best wishes,

Howard
__________
message ref: 22096

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
30th message | this message only posted: 26 Sep 2017 13:51
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Howard,

Here I have overlaid the 1951 version (transparent) over the 1890s version (white area):



Notice a couple of things.

1. Templot has got them both to the same scale for 4mm/ft. Which may not seem much of an achievement on the face of it, but in fact I'm very pleased that it has worked ok. :)

The 1890s map has been resampled and georeferenced by the NLS for their "slippy" map on the web site, and the scaling maths is based on the latitude and zoom level using the known circumference of the Earth at the Equator.

The 1951 "Find by place" map has not been georeferenced, it is displayed by the NLS exactly as scanned from the original sheet based on the OS National Grid, which uses a different map projection. I spent a long time looking at different maps on the NLS web site to establish scaling factors for use in Templot.

2. Because of the different map projection, in order to get a match it was necessary to twist the 1951 map. The angle varies according to the location. There are tools on the OS web site to perform such conversions, but in practice trial and error is probably just as good for the old maps. I found that this one needed a twist of -1.7 degrees.

In most cases Templot users will be using one or the other, not both, so this angular difference is of no significance. The finished track plan is likely to need shifting and rotating anyway for convenient printing and to match the railway room.

p.s. The transparent option is useful for aligning different screenshots and maps, but it prevents deep zooming when aligning tracks over them, and makes zooming and panning significantly slower. So having got it in the right place, it is better to switch off the transparency for actual use. Just how much difference it makes depends on the graphics capabilities of the system. 

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22098

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
31st message | this message only posted: 26 Sep 2017 14:18
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello Martin,

This is indeed a powerful verification of some impressive technology!

Interesting that the two maps differ by about 4 feet at the bottom end in terms of the track plan - though the error is much less for other map features. I suppose with the vagaries print-on paper coupled with the digitisation process there must always be errors, but it does point out the potential limitations in the original surveys. For certain, the track never moved on the ground.

Many thanks again and best wishes,

Howard
__________
message ref: 22100

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
32nd message | this message only posted: 26 Sep 2017 15:20
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
JFS wrote:For certain, the track never moved on the ground.Hi Howard,

Are you sure? There is 60 years between the maps.

Notice that on the 1951 map the viaduct appears to have been widened on the west side (curved wall is straight on the 1890s map):



I cropped the 1951 map (upper) and set it solid for easier comparison of the mismatched rails. Only the track on the left is significantly mismatched, suggesting a remodelling at some time.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22102

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
33rd message | this message only posted: 26 Sep 2017 16:23
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello Martin,

Well, I WAS certain, because the basic structure of the station (train shed walls etc) remained unaltered until the whole lot was demolished in 1990, and, as this photo shows, there was not a lot of room. But looking at the original and modified layouts in the original plans from The Engineer the alignment of that road does look to have shifted away from Holborn V. towards the Low Level implying that the platform and viaduct might have been widened on re-building.

So maybe these maps are reliable after all...




Best Wishes,

Howard.



__________
message ref: 22105

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
34th message | this message only posted: 26 Sep 2017 17:56
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
There was extensive damage to the viaduct and adjacent buildings during and after firebombing during WW2. The west wall appears to have been completely rebuilt. Photos soon after the war show new brickwork.
__________
message ref: 22106

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
35th message | this message only posted: 27 Sep 2017 13:13
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Ariels Girdle wrote: There was extensive damage to the viaduct and adjacent buildings during and after firebombing during WW2. The west wall appears to have been completely rebuilt. Photos soon after the war show new brickwork.Many thanks for that. :thumb:

Evidence that the large scale OS maps are fairly reliable.

It's important always to look at the date of survey and not the date of publication. Sometimes they can be decades apart.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22108

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
36th message | this message only posted: 27 Sep 2017 15:45
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Now I have worked out what is going on - I had assumed we were comparing the post 1910 layout with the 1950 one. But we are not - we are comparing the PRE 1910 layout with that of the '50s. Of course there was an alteration to the layout - it was re-built in 1907 - two narrow platforms were replaced by one wide one - OF COURSE the track was slewed...

Silly me - sorry about that!

I just had a go at loading this map (using the link above) but it always fails with this error:-

"Error: The screenshot failed because the map browser page zoom is not set for dot-for-dot display of maps."

I tried the CTRL+0 but nothing happens - am I doing something wrong?

Best wishes,

Howard
__________
message ref: 22113

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
37th message | this message only posted: 27 Sep 2017 16:04
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
JFS wrote: I tried the CTRL+0 but nothing happens - am I doing something wrong?Hi Howard,

Click on the browser window outside the map area, but below the window top title bar. That means on just the narrow top header band with the NLS logo etc. (There is no visible change when clicked, but it switches the focus away from the NLS map script.) Then press CTRL+0 (zero, not O).

If you can't see the word "zoom" in the top URL, click the "Link to this view" button bottom left, and then move the map until you can.

Which version of Windows? Which version of Internet Explorer on your system? I've been afraid all along that this isn't going to work in some versions. Unfortunately it is necessary to use the embedded Internet Explorer control from Windows, and it is clunky to say the least.

What's frustrating is that most of these problems are specific to the NLS web site, whereas OpenStreetMap works perfectly every time.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22114

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
38th message | this message only posted: 27 Sep 2017 17:04
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Martin,

Sorry about this, and I sympathise with you in these kind of issues.

I copied and pasted the link in the thread so the zoom value in the URL is "5"

I am using Windows 7 64b and IE (which I had to run for the first time to check it) is v11.

Is there anyway I can "manually" check the offending settings?

Best wishes,

Howard
__________
message ref: 22118

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
39th message | this message only posted: 27 Sep 2017 17:22
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
JFS wrote: Is there anyway I can "manually" check the offending settings?Hi Howard,

Copy and paste this into the URL box:

file:///C:/TEMPLOT_DEV/internal/test_zoom.png

It should display exactly 400 pixels wide.

If you don't have a screen ruler, you can download a free one from:

 http://www.spadixbd.com/freetools/jruler.htm

Adjust the zoom until it displays 400 pixels wide.

If it is displaying 400 pixels wide, there may be a bug in the works and I need to do more work. :(

You could try opening your main copy of Internet Explorer and click CTRL+0 on there first.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22119

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
40th message | this message only posted: 27 Sep 2017 18:18
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
p.s. Howard.

or try this:

file:///C:/TEMPLOT_DEV/internal/test_zoom_page.html


Just tested my Win7/64 system again, and it is working ok.

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22121

 
This is topic ID = 2400     Page created at 23:33 (local time) Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page    
You can type a quick reply to this topic here.

Click in the box to begin.


But to reply to an individual message, or to include images, attachments and formatted text, use the reply buttons on each message above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start new topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.

             Start new topic 

 click to jump to a different forum:     Back to top of page

Templot Club > Forums > Share and show > Ludgate Hill North
about Templot Club

list recently active topics Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Old Templot Companion Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines only

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.

The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.
Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2017  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems