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topic: 2408K-crossing check rails on double slip
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posted: 18 Feb 2014 01:10

from:

Len Cattley
 
Bracknell - United Kingdom

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Does anybody know how to put the wing rails on a double slip, I have put the other rails on but don't know how to do the rest? I have put a file attachment so you can see what I have done.

Len

Attachment: attach_1760_2408_S7_V10_double_sissors_crossing.box     374

posted: 18 Feb 2014 02:49

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Len,

I think you mean the K-crossing check rails?

Because the crossing is flatter than 1:8 you shouldn't have a fixed K-crossing. The prototype rules do not allow it -- it would be very unreliable with vehicles frequently mis-tracking, and the same applies for a model. Instead Templot has drawn a 1:10 switch-diamond with movable K-crossings. Such crossings do not have check rails.

If you insist on having a fixed K-crossing, you can get Templot to draw it, including the check rails, by setting the real > K-crossing options > fixed K-crossings (fixed-diamond) menu option.

More information about switch-diamonds:

 message 14263

 message 1587

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Feb 2014 11:15

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Hello Martin,

It looks like you could usefully put a little warning into Templot about this - Len is only the 312th person to raise this - I think I was 257th!

It is one of those things which is obvious when you know about it but not if you don't!

Cheers,

Howard.

posted: 18 Feb 2014 11:36

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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JFS wrote:
It looks like you could usefully put a little warning into Templot about this - Len is only the 312th person to raise this - I think I was 257th!

It is one of those things which is obvious when you know about it but not if you don't!
Hi Howard,

Yes, this is one of those things which I have explained so many times over the years that I can almost reply in my sleep. :)

But it is not easy to see how to put a warning that won't over-simplify the situation or annoy experienced users. There are full help notes for K-crossings at the real > K-crossings options > ? K-crossings - help menu item, which says:



     About  K-crossings
 
A K-crossing is also sometimes called an obtuse crossing or an elbow crossing. Two K-crossings are used at the centre of a diamond-crossing formation, one in each rail.
 
There are two types of K-crossing, fixed and movable. Movable K-crossings are used for crossing angles flatter than 1:8 in straight track, and for sharper angles in curved track. In a movable K-crossing the diamond point rails move into contact with the stock rails in a similar way to ordinary switch blades. A diamond-crossing with movable K-crossings is sometimes called switch-diamond.
 
If the REAL > K-CROSSING OPTIONS > AUTOMATIC menu option is selected, Templot will set the type of K-crossing to movable if the crossing angle is flatter than 1:8 and fixed otherwise.
 
You may need to override the automatic setting on curved track, according to the following rules:
 
In radius down to:   the flattest angle for a fixed K-crossing is:
60 chains ( 3960ft )........1:8
30 chains ( 1980ft )........1:7.75
20 chains ( 1320ft )........1:7.5
15 chains ( 990ft )..........1:7.25
12 chains ( 792ft )..........1:7
10 chains ( 660ft )..........1:6.5
below 10 chains............1:6
 
This information is dated 1943 for the GWR, and similar rules can be assumed for other companies. However, in models we often need to use sharp curves to represent the easier curves of the prototype. In this circumstance the choice of K-crossing type should be based on the known or likely prototype radius, not the full-size equivalent of the model radius. Otherwise nearly all the K-crossings on the model would be movable, which is not typical of the prototype where the majority of K-crossings are fixed.
-----------
 
Check rails (guard rails) are used only for fixed K-crossings in which the diamond point rails are fixed. Check rails are not required for movable K-crossings because the wheels see no break in the rail.
 
K-crossing point rails are blunted to a tip width 1/8" less than the corresponding V-crossing blunt nose, which can be set by clicking the REAL > CUSTOMIZE V-CROSSING > BLUNT NOSE... menu item.




I can't put all that in a warning. Maybe I can make the above notes pop-up the first time a user sets a K-crossing angle flatter than 1:8. It can then be clicked away and not appear again.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 18 Feb 2014 15:09

from:

Len Cattley
 
Bracknell - United Kingdom

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Sorry about causing problems Martin I forgot about K crossing angle's greater than 1:8. I want to build a small test track in S7 it will be 8ft long by 2ft wide and I would like to put in a double slip and a tandem in this space so maybe a 1:10 is to long, I could do a 1:8 with K crossing in this. What I want is for Pacific's to be able to use these crossings. Any advice would be great.

Len

posted: 19 Feb 2014 01:10

from:

Ian Allen
 
Milton Keynes - United Kingdom

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Len

There should be no issue with a Pacific type locomotive passing through a 1:8 double slip. In theory, the curves will be fairly shallow in radius (about 120" from a rough template).

Ian

posted: 19 Feb 2014 11:35

from:

Len Cattley
 
Bracknell - United Kingdom

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Hi Ian looks like I will have to change it to a 1:8 double slip. Thanks for you help.:thumb:

Len

posted: 19 Feb 2014 11:57

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Len Cattley wrote:
Hi Ian looks like I will have to change it to a 1:8 double slip.
Hi Len,

There is no need to change if 1:10 fits your site. You can have slip roads on a switch-diamond. Here is an excellent picture from Mick Nicholson showing a flat-bottom double-slip with movable K-crossings. As one switch blade opens, the other closes. You can see that this doesn't affect the provision of the slip roads in the other rails:

fb_movablek_dslip.jpgfb_movablek_dslip.jpg
© thanks to Mick Nicholson

Using movable K-crossings will give you very much more reliable running, and they are much easier to construct because you don't have to find room for the K-crossing check rails. The only downside is the need for two extra point motors (or only one if you make a suitable rocking crank device to drive both K-crossing switches from a single motor).

regards,

Martin.

posted: 19 Feb 2014 21:17

from:

Len Cattley
 
Bracknell - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin thanks for your reply, how can I add movable K-crossings to my 1:10?
Len

posted: 21 Feb 2014 22:08

from:

JFS
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:

I can't put all that in a warning.

Hi Martin,

Indeed not!

 I guess I was thinking more of a little marker that would appear which would just say "K crossing flatter than 1:10"  In the same way as the "V-Crossing angle shorter than 1:4" does - the help button is there for all the detail...  Even better, is does not interrupt what you are doing.

Best wishes.

Howard



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