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topic: 2534Duplicate track in background
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posted: 14 Sep 2014 17:59

from:

CoBo
 
North Of The Trent (just) - United Kingdom

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Hi guys

Getting my head round Templot quite nicely now but one thing really annoys me and I can't stop it happening. Probably my fault, but I'm unable to find the control to switch it off.

When I reload my track plan to do more work, selecting a section of track to the control (click M in drop down left menu) it changes colour to brown and goes to the control but places an identical blue ghost image below the controlled image which I then have to delete. Every time I select track to the control another blue ghost appears below, sometimes having to delete many background ghost images prior to being left with the one I'm working on.

Probably not explained that very well but an example would be - if I create a new template of any piece of track it appears on the trackpad in brown and is 'in the control', I click 'shift' and move it but there is always another 'blue ghost' left behind identical to the template I've just created.
It's annoying the hell out of me as I seem to spend wasted hours just deleting blue ghosts - can I prevent it happening please.

Mike
Last edited on 14 Sep 2014 18:01 by CoBo
posted: 14 Sep 2014 20:31

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Mike,

I think by "blue ghosts" you mean unwanted background templates?

If you press M make the control it works the same way as all the functions containing the word "make". It first stores the previous control template as a background template, and then creates a new control template. For example make crossover stores the first turnout and then creates the second turnout in the control template. In most cases this is helpful and avoids the need for you to remember to store the previous control template.

But if that is not what you want (maybe because you have already stored the existing control template), instead of M press T delete to the the control which will simply remove the clicked template from the background and copy it into the control template for further work:

2_141511_180000000.png2_141511_180000000.png

Remember that this will discard the previous control template without storing it. You may want to do some experimenting with these functions before working on your live track plan.

You mention reloading your track plan. It's possible that your plan already contains many duplicated templates, which is why they keep appearing when you try to delete them. As you delete each one, an underlying duplicate becomes visible.

Beginners often create lots of duplicate templates, and I don't really know how it happens. Perhaps the word "delete" in "delete to the control" is the problem.

There is no easy way to remove duplicates, other than going to the storage box, sorting through the templates, and deleting any duplicates you find. If your track plan consists of only 12 visible templates, there should be only 12 background templates in the storage box. If there are more, some of them must be duplicates. :)

If you would like to post your .box file here I will do that for you and re-post the file.

regards,

Martin.


posted: 14 Sep 2014 23:49

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Hi Mike.
I am rather intrigued by your problem as I cannot reproduce it. When I click on a blue Background template and choose Make the control, the Background template disappears from the Trackpad and the Storage box as intended. As Martin has pointed out any pre-existing Control template will be stored as a Background template first so if you have selected a Background template to be the Control and repeatedly select it using Make the control, you will save a copy of it each time you Make it. I rarely use Make to control preferring instead to use Wipe to the control most of the time. The Background template  will become the Control template whilst removing it from the Trackpad but leave it in the Storage box as an unused template.
I suspect overuse of the Copy to control option is the most common cause of beginners producing multiple Background templates although it does seem to happen occasionally in other circumstances and I am not always sure why. When I find duplicate Background templates I prefer to find the lower numbered template/s in the storage box and click the Wipe from background button to remove it from the Trackpad (it then becomes unused) rather than Delete which is rather final. At the end of the session I save everything in the Storage box first then, if I have generated lots of Unused templates, in the Storage box, click the Box drop down menu and then click the Delete unused templates option and save everything again for the next session. This does need to be done with care but this way you will always have the full set of Templates to go back to should you have inadvertently deleted something by mistake. You will also need to be methodical with your file naming in order to distinguish the larger file saved first (I use the default files name) from the smaller file saved second (I use sequential file names).
Hope this helps
Tony W.

posted: 15 Sep 2014 08:37

from:

CoBo
 
North Of The Trent (just) - United Kingdom

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Thank you both for your answers, but I'm still not sure I've obtained a conclusive answer - for me anyway.

Imagine if you will building a layout on a board with actual track pieces, you place track in position and gradually build up your formation, but then want to change a point handing, you pick the point up to change it only to see an identical point sitting in the same place.

In Templot I'd like to do the same, adding pieces as I go, gradually creating my desired formation. If I need to amend a piece, I'd like to click on it, adjust it, click again to place it back on the background and then move on, not have to create or remove a duplicate first.

It must be the way I've learned to use Templot (which I think is brilliant by the way) suck it and see, learn as you go method - how do I get it to do this? find a way (usually by trial and error or reading/viewing a tutorial), then use it.

Tony W mentioned he was unable to reproduce my problem - try this Tony.
Start Templot to the opening screen with a track piece displayed, this is shown as being in or under control, click 'insert' and it will change to a background template, click on it again, click 'M' in the menu which changes it back to being again in the control. Now click 'shift' and move it up the screen and you should have that one and a 'blue ghost' where the original one was.

Obvious to me that my problem is operator error!!

I've never used T, C or Y to the control, only M and, when taking something out of control, I use 'insert'. Then click on the next piece 'M' to get it under control, adjust it, 'insert', and so on, then, when I'm happy with what I've created, click on 'save all templates'.

Clearly I'm doing something I shouldn't, or not doing something I should. Could it be using 'insert' on my keyboard to take something out of the control, or is it simply using 'M - make the control' instead of 'T - delete to the control'?.....

MMmm.... A suck it and see exercise using 'T - delete to control' produces exactly the same as above in the "Tony W mentioned...." paragraph, so obviously not that.....
then;-
Rebooted Templot to the first screen showing a track piece under control and, without doing anything else, clicked 'shift' to move it, and still had the ghost below.?????
but;-
Rebooting again doesn't let me reproduce what just happened.....

'Confused of dot com land'

posted: 15 Sep 2014 10:34

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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CoBo wrote:
Imagine if you will building a layout on a board with actual track pieces, you place track in position and gradually build up your formation, but then want to change a point handing, you pick the point up to change it only to see an identical point sitting in the same place.

In Templot I'd like to do the same, adding pieces as I go, gradually creating my desired formation. If I need to amend a piece, I'd like to click on it, adjust it, click again to place it back on the background and then move on, not have to create or remove a duplicate first.
Hi Mike,

Building up a track plan by gradually assembling individual pieces isn't really the best way to use Templot. It works, but it doesn't always produce flowing pointwork through curves, and it is not very prototypical, at least for plain track.

Have a look at this video, and you will see that no individual track pieces are ever fitted together. What you normally do is to create the running track alignments and then insert pointwork into them. That usually means extending the initial template length, splitting off part of it, inserting pointwork in it. Then extending it again and repeating the process:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/flash/starter/em_starter.html

Sorry it's now a rather old video. Note also that the F10 swell function at the start is now on CTRL+F10.

But you can of course work the way you want if you prefer. Try this as a test:

1. start Templot from scratch and don't reload your previous session for this test.

2. you should see the control template and nothing else. Press the HOME key a few times to confirm there is nothing else there.

3. use F7 to shift it about. No ghosts ok?

4. press INSERT once to store a copy of it on the background (or click the button with 2 orange down arrows). Don't press or click it again.

5. Press the HOME key a few times to confirm there just the one background template (in blue) and the identical control template still immediately above it (in brown).

6. use F7 to shift the control template about some more. Still no ghosts, just the one background template and the moving control template?

7. click on the blue background template and then make the control.

8. the control template is now copied onto the background, and the clicked background template becomes the control template. In other words they swap over. Still no ghosts and only the two templates visible, one background template and the control template?

9. make some changes to the control template.

10. repeat the process. Click on the background template and make the control again. Now you can make some changes to that one.

11. repeat this a few more times and make some more changes each time. Still no ghosts?

12. note that while you are using make the control, you don't need to press INSERT at all. Just keep clicking on the background template which you want to change, and let the previous one be stored automatically each time.

13. it is only when you have created an additional template that you need to press INSERT to add it to the background templates comprising your track plan.

14. now repeat all of that from the start, but this time click delete to the control each time. Note that in this case no background templates get created automatically, and if you want to keep the changes to the control template you need to press INSERT each time before deleting the next one to the control.
The make the control function simply does that for you in case you forget, and to speed things up.

I hope this helps. Ask again if it's not clear. :)

Note that reloading your working plan may get confusing if it already contains duplicate templates. You do need to get rid of them all for the above to work without any confusion. If you post your .box file here I will remove any duplicates for you and re-post it.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Sep 2014 12:45

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Hi Mike.
Thanks for the explanation. I now understand what is happening.
Both pressing the insert key (store and background) and using M Make the control create a Blue background template copy of the control template so you are storing two copies of it every time. Even if you have set Templot to hide the Control template after pressing the insert key the control template will still exist and using the Make the control function will create a second background copy of it. If you use the Make option, you do not need to press the insert key first. I will not repeat what Martin has already explained but I suspect most beginners approach Templot from a 'piece it together' perspective as that is what most of us have previously done with model track sections. It takes a while to realise there is a better way, been there, done that.
Regards
Tony W.

posted: 15 Sep 2014 13:40

from:

CoBo
 
North Of The Trent (just) - United Kingdom

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Thank you Martin - I'll give it a go and let you know how I get on....
One question please;- If memory serves me correctly, when I started using Templot I recall using long sections of normal track to lay down the initial route and then inserting a point into it, once I'd done that, I tried but couldn't get another point into the same section of track, so abandoned this way of trying to do it and I think this may have been when I started doing it the piece by piece way, in order to simply achieve something. Now I've done a bit of 'suck and see' I assume one has to first use 'split and make separate exit track/approach track' followed by 'insert point into plain track' to do it - is this correct or is there another way of accomplishing multiple points in one length of track?

Thank you also Tony - I'm guilty as charged I'm afraid!
I think like many others I am a creature of old habits, continuing as we did when we first started playing trains placing sections of track one after the other in order to build a layout, compounded later no doubt by trying to use on-line track design software, again building piece by piece. I know Templot is not specifically designed to do this but old habits die hard.

Thank you both for the heads up on this one.

Mike
Last edited on 15 Sep 2014 13:45 by CoBo
posted: 15 Sep 2014 13:52

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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CoBo wrote:
Now I've done a bit of 'suck and see' I assume now one has to first use 'split and make separate exit track/approach track' followed by 'insert point into plain track' to do it - is this correct?
Hi Mike,

Yes that's correct. A template can contain only one turnout or half-diamond, so you must split it into two templates before you can insert another one. And then perhaps split it again and so on.

Notice that the make split functions work the same way as all the other "make" functions -- the shortened existing control template is stored as a background template first, and then the split-off section is created as the new control template. So you don't need to store anything yourself.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 15 Sep 2014 14:04

from:

CoBo
 
North Of The Trent (just) - United Kingdom

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Thanks Martin.....

posted: 16 Sep 2014 08:13

from:

CoBo
 
North Of The Trent (just) - United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Note that reloading your working plan may get confusing if it already contains duplicate templates. You do need to get rid of them all for the above to work without any confusion. If you post your .box file here I will remove any duplicates for you and re-post it.

regards,

Martin.
Martin - Tried that and find it much easier, but I'll keep practising.

Re: above. I've managed to clear out all the duplicates from the file so ok now, but thank you.

Mike

posted: 16 Sep 2014 14:28

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hello,
       Sometimes when I encounter unwanted copies under the control template I just hide the control template via trackpad/hide the control template. . After left clicking on the template I then proceed to delete the unwanted background templates till they are gone. When the space is clear I then show the control template again.
Regards. :)

posted: 4 Oct 2014 10:30

from:

DaveJ61
 
Northampton - United Kingdom

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Hello all, I am having this problem too, you are not alone Mike. :)
I came to this forum and hey presto, the first post I saw was this exact same problem that I was having.
I was making a length of plain and curved track from a number of sections. When I got to the end I then clicked "make double track MS" and this appeared to be fine. However, I then clicked on the previous single track section and selected "make control" from the popup menu. As soon as this happens, the previous control template spawns a duplicate and so on all the way back down the line.
I actually had to go back and delete the offenders, occasionally having to redo track sections as I deleted the wrong pieces.
I have tried all the above but cannot seem to stop this from happening.
Last edited on 4 Oct 2014 10:31 by DaveJ61
posted: 4 Oct 2014 11:19

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Dave,

I think you must have pressed INSERT / store and background at some stage. So long as you keep using functions which contain the word "make" there is no need to do that. Here is a bit of Jing video showing that I didn't do any storing myself while using the "make" functions:



It may take a few seconds to load. If you can't see it, click:

 http://screencast.com/t/aY3laFN6IEdP

If you have stored the first template, start the sequence with delete to the control. You can then continue using "make" without creating any duplicates.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Oct 2014 13:09

from:

DaveJ61
 
Northampton - United Kingdom

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Aha, that makes sense. Thanks Martin. I'll give this a try a little later... but for now I have some tiling to do... :?

posted: 10 Oct 2014 16:32

from:

DaveJ61
 
Northampton - United Kingdom

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I have tried this and seems to work to some degree. However, I am still getting some duplicates or background templates creeping in. I can't seem to work out how it is happening. I'll keep persevering and work it out. Thanks anyway, but I suspect I may be back with other problems.:)

posted: 10 Oct 2014 18:11

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Dave,

Take a look at this item I posted yesterday, and see if it helps.

topic 2539 - message 17421

Scroll down to about half way down the posted item, to where you see the sentence;

" All duplicated templates have been taken from the trackpad, but are still in the storage box as unused templates"

and then read on.

I would refrain from using the menu option < M  make the control >, on background templates on the trackpad.

All the best,

Brian
Last edited on 10 Oct 2014 19:00 by Brian Nicholls
posted: 28 Oct 2014 16:12

from:

Les G
 
 

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DaveJ61 wrote:
I have tried this and seems to work to some degree. However, I am still getting some duplicates or background templates creeping in. I can't seem to work out how it is happening. I'll keep persevering and work it out. Thanks anyway, but I suspect I may be back with other problems.:)


I am returning to Templot after a longish rest; and  find that I am also getting too many duplicates. Partly, it is due to my failure to remember what happens as a result of each of the menu choices; the differences between wipe, delete, make, and default storage behaviour for example.

Perhaps a brief summary of the menus and selections with result would help understanding [or is there one that I have missed?]

As a returned beginner, I am making a number of false starts; but, it occurs to me that another reason for so many unwanted templates is that there does not appear to be an obvious way to abandon an unwanted control template, without it being stored in the box. [or have I missed that one too?]

regard

Les G 

 

 

Last edited on 28 Oct 2014 16:13 by Les G
posted: 28 Oct 2014 16:29

from:

Brian Nicholls
 
Poole - United Kingdom

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Hi Les G,

Les G wrote:
As a returned beginner, I am making a number of false starts; but, it occurs to me that another reason for so many unwanted templates is that there does not appear to be an obvious way to abandon an unwanted control template, without it being stored in the box. [or have I missed that one too?]


Is all you need to do in this case is to totally ignore the current "in the control" template and simply call in the next one you want to use.

The original template you were working on (in the control) will just disappear and the new one will take it's place on the trackpad. No duplicate made.

All the best,

Brian
Last edited on 28 Oct 2014 16:31 by Brian Nicholls
posted: 28 Oct 2014 17:40

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Les,

You may like to watch this video again:

 http://www.templot.com/martweb/videos/flash/starter/em_starter.html

Notice that no duplicates are created. What are you doing different? :)

Note that the F10 swell mouse action in the video is now CTRL+F10.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 28 Oct 2014 19:41

from:

Les G
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Les,

Notice that no duplicates are created. What are you doing different? :)


Hi Martin,

Thanks for response;  I am using a background image of an existing model fiddle yard to create a Templot version for later inclusion into a room layout to be designed and built using Templot templates.

The yard is in two parts, and the idea is to make a Group of each part for later manipulation. The first board, 12 plain track roads is complete.  I have been using curve and swell to match to the image. First attempts did not quite line up correctly so there has been a fair amount of editing of the Templates.  I am also reacquainting myself with Notch and Peg, probably making a few more errors along the way.

I have been selecting a background template for editing by using Wipe to Control. Perhaps Delete to Control would be better?

I have watched the video a few times, and found it to be helpful. My model image has a variety of  track formations including slips and a tandem; I see it as a useful training ground in preparation for the task of designing the main layout.

Being a forgetful bear, an aide memoire of what does what is being made as I go along.
 
Regards

Les G

posted: 28 Oct 2014 20:06

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Les G wrote:
I have been selecting a background template for editing by using Wipe to Control. Perhaps Delete to Control would be better?
Hi Les,

Wiping a template removes it from the screen and printing, but leaves it in the storage box (and the .box file) as an "unused" template. If you look in the storage box you will see it coloured blue instead of red.

Deleting a template removes it entirely from the stored templates and the file.

Which to use? Well it depends why you are doing it. If you know that a template is completely wrong as it stands and will never be needed like that, delete it to the control and make whatever changes are necessary. Or delete it entirely, and start again with a fresh control template. If you want to try making some changes, with the option of reverting to what you had before if it doesn't work out, wipe it to the control. You can always delete it from the storage box later if the changes are successful.

If you are not too sure what you are doing, wiping is always the safest. It doesn't do any harm to accumulate unused templates in the storage box. There is a function in the box menu on the storage box to delete them all later when you have finally decided that you don't need them.

Duplicate templates are only a nuisance when they are background templates on the trackpad screen (showing red in the storage box). Unused templates don't cause any problems, unless you have so many (in the hundreds) that you can't find what you are looking for in the storage box, and the file size gets too big for comfort.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Oct 2014 00:00

from:

Les G
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
... Duplicate templates are only a nuisance when they are background templates on the trackpad screen (showing red in the storage box)...

This is the bit that has been causing a bit of a nuisance.  I just came across your Jing video on using the Make function which appears to be a method which avoids leaving multiple overlaid copies on the track pad.

If I understand this correctly, when Make is selected, the Current control is saved to background, and the object of Make becomes the control. If the selection is Make The Control, then a copy is saved as Unused Template, and the selected Trackpad template becomes the control.

I will experiment with this during my next session; I feel that the fog of uncertainty is beginning to clear.

regards

Les G

 

posted: 29 Oct 2014 02:38

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Les G wrote:
I will experiment with this during my next session; I feel that the fog of uncertainty is beginning to clear.
Hi Les,

I hope so, because sometimes it seems to me that I have been explaining these things every day for the last 15 years, and am destined to go on explaining them for the rest of my life. :)

I know it must be the words I use, but unfortunately I don't know how to say these things any other way. But someone else may be able to do that. Any takers?

I will have another go now. If anyone doesn't follow this, please can you say which bit you don't understand.

1. "the control template" is a graphical representation of the output from the template generator. It is not part of your track plan. It appears in brown and black colours in front of everything else on the trackpad screen.

2. when you have finished making adjustments to it to fit your track plan, you store a copy of it in the storage box as a "background template". A background template appears in blue and green colours on the trackpad screen behind the control template. Several such stored background templates can make up a track plan.

3. you can store a copy of the control template as many times as you like, but each time you will create another background template. If you didn't make any changes to it, the background templates will be identical duplicates, serving no purpose. Unless you are building a complex formation from partial templates you should normally store only one copy of the control template.

4. having stored a copy of it, you then move on and adjust the control template to fit the next location in your track plan. And then store a copy of it again there to repeat the process and build up the collection of background templates which form your track plan.

5. to store a copy of the control template as a background template you should do one only of any of these things: 

 a. use any function containing the word "make". These are in the tools menu but also "make the control". Templot will store a copy of the control template before modifying it.

Or  b. click the top tool-button 2_090940_020000000.png2_090940_020000000.png.

Or  c. click the main > store & background menu item.

Or  d. press the INSERT key.

Or  e. press CTRL+V keys.

Or  f. press the ` key (top-left key)*.

*in the next program update.

In the case of b. to f. the control template will remain unchanged and possibly obscure the background template just copied from it. Don't store it again. Press the HOME key if you need to check if there is a background template under the control template.

Provided you don't do more than one of the above between making changes to the control template, you won't create any duplicate background templates.

If you are careful to do only one of these things when you are ready to add a copy of the control template to your track plan, you won't create any duplicate background templates.

And after writing that I will just go and check that I haven't got any duplicates in my own .box files... :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Oct 2014 10:53

from:

Trevor Walling
 
United Kingdom

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Hi Les,

I hope so, because sometimes it seems to me that I have been explaining these things every day for the last 15 years, and am destined to go on explaining them for the rest of my life. :)

Hello Martin,
        Perhaps a lot of this has to do with peoples preconceived ideas of copy and paste in other Windows based software that occurs by default.If you move or try to copy a file with the same name into the same folder a warning pops up to alert you.It would probably be tiresome if you had such a feature operating in Templot as the same template is likely to occur many times .Maybe a link to the answer for those with the same question would save you having to keep doing it repeatedly?(Duplicate/multiple templates)
Regards,
Trevor.

posted: 29 Oct 2014 12:15

from:

Les G
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Les G wrote:
I will experiment with this during my next session; I feel that the fog of uncertainty is beginning to clear.
Hi Les,

I hope so, because sometimes it seems to me that I have been explaining these things every day for the last 15 years, and am destined to go on explaining them for the rest of my life. :)

I know it must be the words I use, but unfortunately I don't know how to say these things any other way. But someone else may be able to do that. Any takers? ...


Thanks Martin,

The fog of uncertainty is not so much a problem in understanding your vast body of explanatory writing and videos, as the magnitude of the task for a beginner/refresher to sufficiently understand the workings of your (magnificent) creation, and progress beyond the simpler tasks.

As a former flying Instructor, I have some experience of learning and teaching complex inter-related subjects. This has given me some insight into the technical beginners' mind set. [including my own]  For example: consider the tendency for the inquisitive to look at commands and think, "Now, what does this do?"  - to then try it and observe the result; followed by, "Oh... what just happened! - now why did it do that?

I would like to be helpful; by drawing upon the processes of my current project of re-learning Templot whilst designing a new layout.  I have some ideas about how this might be achieved, perhaps we could continue this discussion with a brief exchange of private emails, in which to explore this further?

regards

Les G
 

posted: 29 Oct 2014 14:40

from:

dharma66
 
United Kingdom

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Trevor Walling wrote:
Hi Les,

I hope so, because sometimes it seems to me that I have been explaining these things every day for the last 15 years, and am destined to go on explaining them for the rest of my life. :)

Hello Martin,
        Perhaps a lot of this has to do with peoples preconceived ideas of copy and paste in other Windows based software that occurs by default.If you move or try to copy a file with the same name into the same folder a warning pops up to alert you.It would probably be tiresome if you had such a feature operating in Templot as the same template is likely to occur many times .Maybe a link to the answer for those with the same question would save you having to keep doing it repeatedly?(Duplicate/multiple templates)
Regards,
Trevor.
Yes, I agree. That was certainly my issue, and not just with pre-conceived ideas about copy/paste, but also 'save'.
When working on a PC, one of the habits I have is to save my work very frequently. So when writing a document in MS Word, for example, I'll typically press 'CTRL-S' to save my work once every minute or two.
When I started using Templot, one of the first things I looked for was a way to save my work, and I also used 'Make Control' in a rather slap-dash manner, because I thought it was the equivalent to 'Save' in an document based program. So I also ended up with a storage box and background littered with multiple copies of everything.
What I eventually realised is that 'making' would put the current state of the 'control' into the storage box, and in fact, that can be very useful indeed. I now use it as a kind of 'version control' system - which I'm sure is what was intended by the design.
So, when working on a new set of points or whatever, I may get to a position where I think its ok, and I'll 'make control'. I'll then change the control name slightly (say adding something like 'extended runout', or 'tighter curve'), and make the changes I want. I might make several versions like this, trying them in turn until I decide which one I want, then I just delete all the others from the storage box.
It only took me a little while to realise this was the way things worked, and I am starting to think that maybe it's because I'm a programmer, perhaps I think more in the same way Martin does than some others might?
I'd love to volunteer to Martins earlier suggestion that someone else has a go at some documentation, as I have done some technical authoring in the past, for complex software systems aimed at laypeople. But in all honesty, I really can't make any promises, due to lack of time.
However, absolutely no promises, but I may try to make some notes whilst I'm still figuring things out myself, and see if I can later knock them into some kind of shape. But, really, no promises I'm afraid (either about delivery, or about quality  :D ).
PSI just saw that Les made a similar, but stronger commitment. Probably best that Les takes it up...
Last edited on 29 Oct 2014 14:41 by dharma66
posted: 29 Oct 2014 19:28

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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dharma66 wrote:
When working on a PC, one of the habits I have is to save my work very frequently. So when writing a document in MS Word, for example, I'll typically press 'CTRL-S' to save my work once every minute or two.
Hi,

There is no need to do that because Templot does it for you. Every change to the storage box contents is copied to a rolling backup file.

Go on, try it -- trip over the computer mains cable. :)

Templot will come back up with your track plan as you left it and only the most recent changes to the control template will be lost.

Note however that this does not apply to BGS background shapes files, or SK9 sketchboard files, so it is worth saving those occasionally if you have done a lot of work on them.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 29 Oct 2014 20:06

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Les G wrote:
I would like to be helpful; by drawing upon the processes of my current project of re-learning Templot whilst designing a new layout. I have some ideas about how this might be achieved, perhaps we could continue this discussion with a brief exchange of private emails, in which to explore this further?
dharma66 wrote:
I'd love to volunteer to Martin's earlier suggestion that someone else has a go at some documentation, as I have done some technical authoring in the past, for complex software systems aimed at lay people.
Trevor Walling wrote:
Maybe a link to the answer for those with the same question would save you having to keep doing it repeatedly?(Duplicate/multiple templates)
Hi all,

I was really thinking only in terms of the words I use to explain the duplicate templates. There are already two good general tutorials written by Allan Ferguson and Tony Wilkins:

 http://templot.com/companion/index.html?getting_started_allan_ferguson.htm

 http://templot.com/companion/index.html?beginners_guide_tony_wilkins.htm

But of course more of the same are always welcome. :)

Trevor it is my intention that everything will eventually be in the Templot Companion so that I can simply link to it when needed. My replies here in the Templot Club forum are really only a stop-gap until that happy day arrives. After 15 years, don't hold your breath. :)

I'm intending that most of the new documentation will be in the FBR video format for the Templot video player. As you know I recently did most of a single-slip tutorial that way, see:

 topic 2511

 http://templot.com/fbr/ladder_single_slip.fbr

I now see that I still haven't updated that from the first draft, nor changed the link on the video list page. Sorry about that. I will get back to it as soon as I have got this dpi-aware stuff finished and a new program update done.

Les, I'd be happy to receive your emails, but can't it be posted here on the forum? Then everyone can add their ideas and suggestions. My email address is martin@templot.com , but see also para 11 in the Templot terms of use at:

 http://templot.com/companion/index.html?terms_of_use.htm

regards,

Martin.

posted: 30 Oct 2014 01:12

from:

Les G
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Les, I'd be happy to receive your emails, but can't it be posted here on the forum? Then everyone can add their ideas and suggestions.
Martin,
The suggestion of an email exchange was to enable me to make suggestions, and offer text which you would be able to check/verify before incorporating into the appropriate place in the companion without our exchanges becoming clogged by extraneous discussion.  I will formulate a brief proposal over the next few days, and submit it to you by private email.

regards

Les

posted: 2 Nov 2014 12:18

from:

dharma66
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
I'm intending that most of the new documentation will be in the FBR video format for the Templot video player. As you know I recently did most of a single-slip tutorial that way, see:

 topic 2511

 http://templot.com/fbr/ladder_single_slip.fbr

Martin, I just viewed this video tutorial and I have to say, it's absolutely brilliant.
I love the links out to extra information, and the inclusion of the explanatory notes.
Happily, it is also an almost exact description of what is likely to be the most complex part of my layout, except that I'm lucky in that it's happening largely on straight track... The only possible complication I may have is that I have a ladder crossing (I didn't even know that until I saw the video!), where the first couple of lines are straight, then the third is curved. But I think I can have a go at tackling that with the information I have from the video!
Many thanks for the link!

posted: 2 Nov 2014 12:42

from:

Tony W
 
North Notts. - United Kingdom

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Hi Martin.

I did begin updating my written introduction for Templot for Templot 2 but have been having problems with my increasingly geriatric Father that have been taking up most of my time of late. When the situation improves I intend to expand it to include some of the recent additions and then I will post it on the forum. In the meantime, thanks for Templot and the forum. It has been a great escape from the stress of my daily routine when time has allowed.

Regards

Tony W.

posted: 2 Nov 2014 13:49

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Tony,

Thanks for that. I had similar family pressures last winter and I know how stressful it can be.

Nature having since then taken its course, I'm hoping to have a bit more time for Templot this winter.

Sunny summer days are no time to be sitting at a computer, but when the winter evenings close in, some Templot progress can be made. Well that's the theory. I have also just obtained a Raspberry Pi to develop the interlocking on a friend's railway, so it will be interesting to see which gets priority. :)

Martin.

posted: 2 Nov 2014 14:12

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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dharma66 wrote:
Martin, I just viewed this video tutorial and I have to say, it's absolutely brilliant.
I love the links out to extra information, and the inclusion of the explanatory notes.
Hi Phil,

I'm glad you like it. Did you watch the FBR version or the web page Flash version? Which do you prefer?

Flash isn't available on all devices and can be flaky on some systems. The FBR video seems to work well on all systems including Linux/Wine, but on the other hand it is only visible if you have downloaded and installed Templot2 (or some other suitable player). It does have the advantage that the videos can be directly downloaded and opened from Templot without needing to launch the browser. Now that we have our own half-server I don't need to be too concerned about bandwidth and most of the docs can be re-done in FBR video. In due course -- to use my favourite meaningless phrase. :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 2 Nov 2014 14:31

from:

dharma66
 
United Kingdom

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Hi Martin, I've watched the flash version so far. I've also downloaded the fbr, which I'm going to use to follow along later today (time permitting).

posted: 4 Nov 2014 19:23

from:

Les G
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
... Les, I'd be happy to receive your emails ...
Hi Martin,

I emailed a proposal to you 1 Nov at 18:41; did you receive it?

regards

Les

posted: 4 Nov 2014 19:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Les G wrote:
Hi Martin,

I emailed a proposal to you 1 Nov at 18:41; did you receive it?
Hi Les,

Yes I did, and I'm still thinking about it.

That is the main reason I don't like emails and much prefer everything to be here on the Templot Club forum. With an email there is an obligation to reply, and as soon as possible. On the forum there isn't.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 4 Nov 2014 22:00

from:

Les G
 
 

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Martin,

No Worries

Les



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