click here for a list of all existing Templot documentation
about Templot Club cookie information pre-print options:    

click image to open Templot Club in a new tab
Templot club top logo
looking for Templot? - (free)



 you are not logged in  - Login | Join


receive all messages by email: info


Recent Topics
Front Page  Search  Image Gallery  Gallery Upload  My Account  Members  Help  
make a donation  
please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors Templot Companion - User Guide
            messages archive on Yahoo
page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Trackbuilding topics > Building Yeovil Pen Mill in EM
Templot web site

             Rating                           Building Yeovil Pen Mill in EM
  Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2       
 Start new topic   Reply blank   Printer friendly 
  Rate this topic  
AuthorMessage
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
41st message | this message only posted: 24 Oct 2017 14:53
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Duncan
Reigate, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello Tony

Thanks very much for your thoughts and experience which I think maybe just what I'm looking for. I've a couple of questions for you which I've put in your text below...

Tony W wrote:

Hi Andrew.

That all looks quite neat and tidy.

Documenting your layout wiring is often overlooked but certainly essential for anything more than a shunting plank, but can seem a pretty thankless task. A combination of circuit drawings and wiring lists is a good starting point  By Circuit drawing do you mean as I described above, a Templot plan printed out at a reduced scale, and what is a wiring list ? My aologies for asking what may sound obvious to you ,but this is the first time I've been / tried to be so thorough in my approach and this admin side of layout building is all a bit new to me!  
My preferred wiring method relies on soldered tag strips which can be numbered. A list of connections between tags, the colour of the wires and the function of each wire helps fault tracing. Colour coding is also very helpful as you are doing. Standardisation of repeating circuits is a good idea. What do you mean by repeating circuits? Make a record of the wiring through connectors between baseboards pin to tag strip each side. Do you have a copy of what you've done that you might be able to show me, a photograph or scan of one of the pages perhaps?

You maybe regretting having answered my questions so fully now, but any help that you can give me would be most appreciated.

Kind regards

Andrew

__________
message ref: 22543

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
42nd message | this message only posted: 25 Oct 2017 17:25
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Andrew Duncan wrote: Hello Tony

Thanks very much for your thoughts and experience which I think maybe just what I'm looking for. I've a couple of questions for you which I've put in your text below...

Tony W wrote:

Hi Andrew.

That all looks quite neat and tidy.

Documenting your layout wiring is often overlooked but certainly essential for anything more than a shunting plank, but can seem a pretty thankless task. A combination of circuit drawings and wiring lists is a good starting point  By Circuit drawing do you mean as I described above, a Templot plan printed out at a reduced scale, and what is a wiring list ? My apologies for asking what may sound obvious to you ,but this is the first time I've been / tried to be so thorough in my approach and this admin side of layout building is all a bit new to me!  
My preferred wiring method relies on soldered tag strips which can be numbered. A list of connections between tags, the colour of the wires and the function of each wire helps fault tracing. Colour coding is also very helpful as you are doing. Standardisation of repeating circuits is a good idea. What do you mean by repeating circuits? Make a record of the wiring through connectors between baseboards pin to tag strip each side. Do you have a copy of what you've done that you might be able to show me, a photograph or scan of one of the pages perhaps?

You maybe regretting having answered my questions so fully now, but any help that you can give me would be most appreciated.

Kind regards

Andrew
Hi Andrew.
Basically yes.
A circuit drawing or diagram can cover any number of scenarios, from the trackwork with section power feeds, crossing feeds, isolating gaps, section breaks (although if using DCC you may not have any), to the control boards for said layout.
A wiring list is simply a list of connections between tags, the colour of the wires and the function of each wire.
Repeating circuits.
If a circuit is duplicated several times, it makes sense to use the same colour wires and physical layout each time within that circuit although not necessarily for the control wire to it. That commonality means you will be more familiar with individual circuits that go to make up the whole.
I will scan some examples for you. Most of the originals are in .doc format for ease of editing as changes are made.
Regards
Tony.


__________
message ref: 22609

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
43rd message | this message only posted: 25 Oct 2017 22:52
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Duncan
Reigate, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Thanks very much Tony. I’ll look forward to seeing some examples as well when you have a moment. Kind regards 
Andrew

__________
message ref: 22612

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
44th message | this message only posted: 2 Nov 2017 01:01
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Andrew.
Well that has proved a useful exercise. On visiting some of the files I wished to send you as examples of how I did things, I discovered that they either needed correcting or were in the process of being updated but had not been completed, so has spurred me on to do so.
Rather than post them as pictures, I think it better to add them as attachments as some of the text will be too small to read otherwise. This will take three postings.
The first file is the Track plan wiring schematic for Green Street and may take a bit of studying.
Board 1 is to the left of the vertical dotted line, then board 2 to 4.
The tracks are numbered from the bottom upwards.


__________
message ref: 22674
Attachment: Track plan electrics.GIF (Downloaded 29 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
45th message | this message only posted: 2 Nov 2017 01:04
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
The second file is for the connecting cable between boards 1 and 2 and are I hope largely self explanatory.

__________
message ref: 22675
Attachment: Wiring list 1.GIF (Downloaded 19 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
46th message | this message only posted: 2 Nov 2017 01:12
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
The third file may be of some use if you have a Three throw turnout to deal with. As the blades overlap, it is important that the two point motors throw sequentially to avoid stressing the drive mechanisms. I have used Fulgurex point motors modified with 10 way connectors and ribbon cable jumpers to allow easy disconnection if required. A major consideration with an exhibition layout.
I am sure you will have further questions once you have studied these.
Regards
Tony.

__________
message ref: 22676
Attached Image (viewed 280 times):

Three throw turnout.GIF
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
47th message | this message only posted: 2 Nov 2017 10:18
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Tony W wrote:
The first file is the Track plan wiring schematic for Green Street and may take a bit of studying.

Hi Tony,

Very interesting!

But a bit of clarification needed - sorry if you have given this elsewhere and I have missed it.  What are the lines A,B,C and D?  Also the Ind and Ex designation - which I might be able to guess!  The diagram looks as if each of the switches 1 - 12 are just three pole, but if it were that simple, then as-drawn, throwing any one of them shorts a,b,c together - which cannot be the case - in which case, what are each of the three "poles" for, and what stops them being operated together?

Best wishes,

Howard

__________
message ref: 22678

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
48th message | this message only posted: 2 Nov 2017 12:37
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
JFS wrote: Tony W wrote:
The first file is the Track plan wiring schematic for Green Street and may take a bit of studying.

Hi Tony,

Very interesting!

But a bit of clarification needed - sorry if you have given this elsewhere and I have missed it.  What are the lines A,B,C and D?  Also the Ind and Ex designation - which I might be able to guess!  The diagram looks as if each of the switches 1 - 12 are just three pole, but if it were that simple, then as-drawn, throwing any one of them shorts a,b,c together - which cannot be the case - in which case, what are each of the three "poles" for, and what stops them being operated together?

Best wishes,

Howard
Hi Howard.
That is the problem of publishing one page of a manual intended for personal use out of context. I suspected that further explanation would be required.
A,B,C,D are the four controller buses nominally available to switch to a track section.
Ind is short for Industrial and is the power station empire. If you have operated the layout you will know what I mean by that. Controller D is permanently connected to this.
Ex is short for extra and is unused at present.
The three switch poles on section feeds 1 - 12 are individual relay contacts.
The long term plan was for micro processor control of the signal box interlocking and power feeds to sections 1 to 12 will be selected using 2 bit binary control, hence only one relay contact can be made at a time with "00" being off. At present, as a temporary measure and we all know about those, only controllers A and B are available via centre off toggle switches, in effect manual Cab control.
You are correct about the shorting issue, it is not uncommon for an operator to forget to restore a section feed switch when they have finished with it and then set up another route using another controller. If the loco overruns the section gap between the two controllers, a short occurs and Pentrollers don't like it up em as we discovered the hard way long ago.
Hope this answers your questions.
Regards
Tony.

Edit:
Perhaps the attached file may help.

__________
message ref: 22679
Attached Image (viewed 238 times):

Section feeds and isolators.gif
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
49th message | this message only posted: 2 Nov 2017 17:41
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Many thanks Tony - I guessed correctly with "ind" - but incorrectly with "Ex"!!

Best wishes,
__________
message ref: 22681

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
50th message | this message only posted: 3 Nov 2017 22:51
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Duncan
Reigate, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello Tony

Thanks very much for downloading these for me. I'll take a closer look over the weekend and see what I do and do not understand and come back to you with any questions if I may?



Kind regards

Andrew 

__________
message ref: 22692

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
51st message | this message only posted: 3 Nov 2017 23:40
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Andrew.
I thought it had all gone quiet!
By all means.
Regards
Tony.

__________
message ref: 22695

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
52nd message | this message only posted: 4 Nov 2017 17:19
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Richie Kynaston
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Very impressed with the trackwork construction. If i can achieve anything halfway as good in 7mm, i'll be happy! Keep up with the updates.

Rich
__________
message ref: 22696

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
53rd message | this message only posted: 5 Nov 2017 22:18
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Duncan
Reigate, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello Tony

Thanks for uploading the second wiring diagram it does help to get a better sense of the layout.

I've not got very far so far this weekend but have managed to scan my current record of baseboard no 5 (a print out of the current section of the layout printed at 20% sizing Edit COPY ATTACHED) of turnouts numbered and all wiring points logged on it. The position of the droppers are marked, usually in pairs,  at the point they are soldered to the rail, as I've often found in the past that I've forgotten where the feeds are, which can be very frustrating!

I've numbered the turnouts all starting 5 as the baseboard is number 5. They begin 5A, 5B etc and work there way through to 5K.

I don't, as you observed have the need for isolating sections as this is DCC, so my next job is, I think, to number the feed wires which I have already pencilled in. Again here I've used the board number to dictate the first numeral but I'm beginning to think this is over kill and I'll probably just re-number them 1-50 or so...? Then make a list of the wires and their function as you have on a separate Word document.

Any thoughts you have would be gratefully accepted.

Thanks again for your support and ideas.

Kind regards

Andrew

Edit: I've just noticed that the scan ive uploaded has cut a few inches off the left hand end of the baseboard chopping the first turnout in half!

__________
message ref: 22712
Attachment: Yeovil North Board 5 -TO Numbering - 200 DPI.pdf (Downloaded 19 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
54th message | this message only posted: 5 Nov 2017 22:29
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Duncan
Reigate, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Richie Kynaston wrote: Very impressed with the trackwork construction. If i can achieve anything halfway as good in 7mm, i'll be happy! Keep up with the updates.

Rich
Hello RichThank you for your kind words and encouragement. Its always good to hear !!

Kind regards
Andrew

__________
message ref: 22713

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
55th message | this message only posted: 5 Nov 2017 23:35
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Andrew.
Have you considered numbering the points as they are / would have been in the signal box diagram as this will save cross referencing later on. The signals will also have to be added to the scheme as well. This is the system I used on my layout, fictitious though it is. The points with an M prefix are those that would have been manually operated with hand levers had it existed.
There is no right or wrong way to do it, but at the end of the day you need to have something that works for you and that you can understand.
Also give some thought to being able to break down the DCC fed areas into smaller sections, i.e. using plugs and sockets to enable faults to be isolated more easily.
As it happens I do have a passing interest in Yeovil Pen Mill as a good friend of mine always wanted to model it in P4 but sadly never got the chance, so it is nice to see it taking shape in your capable hands.
Regards
Tony.

__________
message ref: 22714

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
56th message | this message only posted: 6 Nov 2017 22:28
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Duncan
Reigate, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello Tony
Thanks very much for the idea of using the signal box diagram. Deceptively simple ideas are often the inspired ones, and your idea seems to come very much in that category. 

You're right of course about the signals which aren't on that plan but need to be included and although I've allowed for them electronically I've not yet given them sufficient thought physically in either  location or construction method. As a result of a comment of Howard Bolton's that I came across the other day I've been following Steve Hewitt's authoritative thread in RM Web on signal construction which is both fascinating and instructive.

Now your thoughts on fault finding have set me thinking as to whether I've got enough places to "break" wires for fault finding. That'll require a bit more thinking I think, so for the moment I'll conclude by thanking you for your comments on on your connection with Yeovil and the compliment of it being "in safe hands". I was really quite touched by your words.

Kind regards
Andrew


 



__________
message ref: 22727

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
57th message | this message only posted: 7 Nov 2017 22:37
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Andrew.
One other thing. You may have noticed that the track diagram was marked issue 9. When you modify the layout, make sure you update the documentation to match.  There is nothing worse than trying to fault find with out of date reference material. Guess how I know.
Regards
Tony.


__________
message ref: 22736

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
58th message | this message only posted: 8 Nov 2017 13:18
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Duncan
Reigate, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hmm wise words Tony but that’s going to require self discipline...! When you say version 9 where they track plan changes or something elsethat you’d changed?Andrew

__________
message ref: 22741

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
59th message | this message only posted: 8 Nov 2017 22:21
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Andrew Duncan wrote: When you say version 9 where they track plan changes or something else that you’d changed?Andrew
Hi Andrew.
A mixture of things really. The layout was extended once with the addition of an off scene industrial siding, which required the replacement of a turnout with an outside slip, but mostly it was down to errors and amendments made over the course of time. The most recent change (from issue 8 to 9) was replacing the pencil drawn original with the computer graphic I posted, but I took the opportunity to update one of the point motor numbers from M2 to M2a for clarity. This change had been noted in red ink on the earlier working copy some years ago, so no, I don't exactly rush to do the updates, just make a note of them at the time.
Regards
Tony.

__________
message ref: 22746

 
This is topic ID = 2547     Page created at 02:53 (local time) Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2     
You can type a quick reply to this topic here.

Click in the box to begin.


But to reply to an individual message, or to include images, attachments and formatted text, use the reply buttons on each message above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start new topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.

             Start new topic 

 click to jump to a different forum:     Back to top of page

Templot Club > Forums > Trackbuilding topics > Building Yeovil Pen Mill in EM
about Templot Club

list recently active topics Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Old Templot Companion Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines only

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.

The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.
Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2017  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems