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             Rating                           No such thing a stupid question
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 26 Apr 2015 16:34
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from:
RichardS
Norwich, United Kingdom

 

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There's no such thing as a stupid question, so they say. 'They' haven't met me!  Hopefully I exaggerate.

I've been tinkering with Templot but as yet haven't quite got to grips and maybe I am trying to run before I can walk although I have read much, watched the tutorial videos and experimented.

I am planning a model based on the junction at Boscarne (but it won't ,you'll be relieved to know, be Boscarne.) As everybody knows this is a single line which splits into two and has 2 sidings. All of which are joined at both ends, one via a fan of sidings and the other a sort of Y junction. The four lines run parallel. Shouldn't be too difficult, he says nonchelently

So thinks Richard, 'I'll scan a map, use it as background and it will be easy to plan the tracks over the top of it. Easy.'  Wrong Slipper, not easy.

First problem is getting a map that once enlarged isn't too fuzzy. I found a super site for old maps at the National Library of Scotland - if you haven't seen this you must have a look - and downloaded copies of the 6" OS map for the area from 1887,1907 and 1938. In themselves the maps are fascinating as it is possible to follow the development of the line.

But even at this scale enlargements come out fuzzy. I tried tracing the lines, simplifying the drawings, using colours, but nothing seems to work very well. I expect it's me but I'd welcome any pointers that folk might be able to offer.

Secondly, I realise that Templot makes bespoke templates but the enlarged maps are so approximate that it's pretty difficult to tell when the turnouts are 'right'. It maybe that turnouts never are actually 'right' and that I am expecting a too higher degree of fidelity to a plan which itself may not be 'right' anyway. 

I did wonder if somewhere on the web there would be information of what the track geometry actually used was for this (or any other place for that matter). But I can find nothing. Probably such records no longer exist if indeed they ever did.

The turnouts at the 'Y' end of the junction are special, or at least look to be to me. The ones at the fan of siding's off the 'mainline' look to me to be standard straight turnouts 1 LH and 2RH.

So here's the stupid question. Where there are straight turnouts can one use a standard template, for example say a B7? If so, how do you know which one to use?  Would this be affected by the track spacing?

Many thanks in anticipation.

RichardS

    


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2nd message | this message only posted: 27 Apr 2015 06:03
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Richard,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

The OS 6-inch maps are really too small in scale to provide any detailed track planning information.

Generally the smallest scale that is usable in Templot as a background guide are the 25-inch maps (1:2,500).

If you go to the old-maps web site you will see in the column on the left several 1:2,500 maps available at different dates for Boscarne Junction:

  https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/204180/67425/12/100954

(It's a clunky web site -- zoom out a bit if you can't see anything.)

Unfortunately that site can be expensive -- £9.99 per month subscription to view the maps zoomed in far enough to see clearly (from which you could take a screen capture), or £16 for a PDF A3 download.

The Alan Godfrey printed 25" maps are much less expensive, and you may find they have one which covers Boscarne Junction. You could then scan it yourself:

  http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/corn3402.htm

OS maps over 50 years old are out of copyright, so you may find somewhere else which can supply copies or scans at a lower price. For example the Cornwall County Record Office or Cornwall Libraries services would be worth contacting:

 https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/community-and-living/records-archives-and-cornish-studies/cornwall-record-office/

You will be very lucky to find recorded details of the actual track geometry installed at any location, but with a large enough map as a background guide in Templot you can get a good idea. How fuzzy it is depends on the original scale and the scanned resolution.

For example this is a 50-inch map of Crewkerne, showing a 1:8 diamond in Templot as the basis for the single-slip:



regards,

Martin.

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3rd message | this message only posted: 27 Apr 2015 11:23
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from:
RichardS
Norwich, United Kingdom

 

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Martin, thank you for your usual comprehensive and helpful reply. I hope you didn't spend too long looking for the various sites. I rather expected you to say that 1:2500 was the best. Smaller scales are too small (profound) as I have found.

I may try drawing the plan. Provided I can copy the general line of the curves at the Bodmin end from the 6" maps and estimate the track spacing for the sidings. (I found a great 'end on' photo on line) I should be able to arrive at the approximate angles (I think). It's worth a try. We shall see.

Regards

RichardS

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4th message | this message only posted: 27 Apr 2015 14:29
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Hi Richard

Hi Richard

There are specified spacing's for the distance between running lines and between running lines and sidings. Nominally 6ft 6ins, more on ex GW broad gauge lines and 10 ft for sidings, that's rail to rail. So that will give you some idea of your track layout. As for turnouts, this may be more down to your minimum radius and the space available to fit it in.

Cheers Phil
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5th message | this message only posted: 27 Apr 2015 18:39
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from:
rodney_hills
United Kingdom

 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
(SNIPPED)

The OS 6-inch maps are really too small in scale to provide any detailed track planning information.

Generally the smallest scale that is usable in Templot as a background guide are the 25-inch maps (1:2,500).

If you go to the old-maps web site you will see in the column on the left several 1:2,500 maps available at different dates for Boscarne Junction:

  https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/204180/67425/12/100954

(It's a clunky web site -- zoom out a bit if you can't see anything.)

Unfortunately that site can be expensive -- £9.99 per month subscription to view the maps zoomed in far enough to see clearly (from which you could take a screen capture), or £16 for a PDF A3 download.

The Alan Godfrey printed 25" maps are much less expensive, and you may find they have one which covers Boscarne Junction. You could then scan it yourself:

:::::::

You will be very lucky to find recorded details of the actual track geometry installed at any location, but with a large enough map as a background guide in Templot you can get a good idea. How fuzzy it is depends on the original scale and the scanned resolution.


Hello

In http://www.localhistory.co.uk/la/cats/cat69.htm there is an item in the Cornwall section:
------------------------------
Bodmin Road to Bodmin Railway GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY. CORNWALL RAILWAY. BODMIN BRANCH 2 CHAIN SURVEY 1904. M 274 to M 280. Containing sheets Nos. 1-2 inclusive and with 2 sheets not numbered. 4 hand-coloured lithograph printed sheets, each sheet mounted on linen with a single vertical fold, overall size approx. 25" x 40", recently bound in half cloth paper boards, paper label on top board. Size of the volume approx. 25" x 23". There are two plans of the railway line, each showing 1 mile of track, on each Sheet. Scale 2 chains to 1". Compass rose and scale bar on each sheet. Verso of maps very slightly dusty, otherwise a clean set, small piece missing from foot of last leaf, not affecting the lithographed surface. London: Thos. Kell and Son, Lithographers. 1904. £180.00 -- See Illustration
¶ The plans show the route of the railway from Bodmin Road Station to Bodmin Station, and include fine detailed plans of each station, and a small separate plan of Boscarne Junction. They include the adjacent buildings, houses, signal boxes, goods sheds, cranes, taps, troughs, smithies, oil tanks, etc. The plans also show viaducts, bridges and their span, tunnels, parish boundaries, woodland, wells, quarries etc. The names of the landowners adjacent are shown with details of leases or conveyances. There are occasional later details of land transactions neatly written in red ink, up to the 1950's. The distance from Paddington is shown at quarter of a mile intervals.
-------------------------------
The "See Illustration" link displays (reduced) the plan of Bodmin Station, which I have attempted to attach, below.Two chains to the inch is (2 x 22 x 3 x 12) which gives a scale of 1:1584. Double check that: 2 chains is one fortieth of a mile -> thus (1760 / 40) yards and thus (36 / 40) x 1760 inches ... 1:1584.
Note the price of the set of plans .... As this is an old list, perhaps it would be possible to contact the buyer, via Mr Aitchison, to see if he could make the Boscarne Jct plan available to our researcher?

Regards,
Rodney Hills
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6th message | this message only posted: 27 Apr 2015 20:24
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from:
RichardS
Norwich, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks Phil. Helpful. From my measurements on the photos I have these figures are what the arrangement appears to be.

I was curious about Boscarne because effectively form the signal box it is two single lines with alternate sidings and not sure if this would be different.

Plus of course as the GWR are involved you cannot be certain of anything(:-)) although as the Bodmin General/Boscarne link was never Broad Gauge one would have hoped that it was 'standard.' The line from Boscarne to Wadebridge was of course rebuilt by the LSWR for the GWR when the latter ran the only passenger services whilst the former's were suspended. 

In summary, it all looks pretty standard.

Regards

RichardS    

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7th message | this message only posted: 27 Apr 2015 20:30
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from:
RichardS
Norwich, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks Rodney, I had seen that site... and the price... and moved swiftly on. Didn't notice the reference to Boscarne though. It would look to be the ideal thing.

Have to be honest I enjoy researching a place and it's railways almost as much (maybe more?) than actually making the models! Probably not alone.

I might try and contact the man as you suggest.

Thanks

Regards.

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