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41st message | this message only posted: 17 Nov 2015 08:05
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Here is a photo of my simple jig for holding the rails in a Vee shape whilst being soldered. My 25 watt iron has to be very hot as the aluminium strip acts as a heat sink
The strip is easily bought from a local DIY store and its 10 x 2 mm
I guess a more ingenious person could invent an adjustable one, but the chocks have to be the correct size.
These jigs can be made from sleeper strip (ply or copperclad) or even thick card, for 4 mm scale 1.06 copperclad strip is fine
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42nd message | this message only posted: 17 Nov 2015 12:19
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Jim Guthrie wrote: Another method which works very well is to dip the hot iron tip into Carrs 188 solder paint when you get an almost instant tinned tip. 
A similar idea; if you can get a blob of solder to attach to the tip, just dunk quickly in 188 flux.

I find the wet sponge method works fine. I use it before and after every single application of the iron; it becomes automatic after a time.

The only time I get any crust building up on the iron is if I accidentally leave it on for a couple of days :shock:. Gentle prodding with a file will remove it without scratching the metal shield on the tip. Once the shield goes then crud builds up a lot quicker and I think it's better to invest in a new tip.

Nigel

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43rd message | this message only posted: 17 Nov 2015 13:27
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from:
Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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Nigel Brown wrote: Jim Guthrie wrote:
The only time I get any crust building up on the iron is if I accidentally leave it on for a couple of days :shock:. Gentle prodding with a file will remove it without scratching the metal shield on the tip. Once the shield goes then crud builds up a lot quicker and I think it's better to invest in a new tip.
 
Nigel,

In my case I found it of great use with my 100W Weller iron.  When I got the iron,  the plating on the bit wasn't very good and I filed it off to work with the copper underneath.  And just like the old days,  the copper oxidises through time and a regular dunk in the 188 solder kept it in good shape.

Jim.

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44th message | this message only posted: 18 Nov 2015 14:13
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Richard,

Another method which works very well is to dip the hot iron tip into Carrs 188 solder paint when you get an almost instant tinned tip.   I got a bottle of the 188 just for this from Brian Lewis some years ago and the only problem is that it has now dried up. :)

Jim.
Hi Jim

I have been told that it is possible to revive solder paste by adding Carrs Green Label flux to it and giving it a good mixing, I have not yet had to try it myself.

Cheers Phil

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45th message | this message only posted: 18 Nov 2015 22:04
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from:
Paul Willis
 

 

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Phil O wrote:
Richard,

Another method which works very well is to dip the hot iron tip into Carrs 188 solder paint when you get an almost instant tinned tip.   I got a bottle of the 188 just for this from Brian Lewis some years ago and the only problem is that it has now dried up. :)

Jim.
Hi Jim

I have been told that it is possible to revive solder paste by adding Carrs Green Label flux to it and giving it a good mixing, I have not yet had to try it myself.

Cheers Phil
I rarely comment on the Templot forum as my knowledge of the program and the prototype track is far surpassed by many others.  But I do know a little bit about this...

I had a good conversation with Brian Lewis at Scaleforum two or three years ago.  My pot of 188 solder paint was also drying up even though it was only half empty.  Brian confirmed that the best way of reviving it was indeed adding Green Label flux, and stirring it until it was of the correct consistency.

However, if the solder paint had dried out and solidified, it could not be redeemed.  Adding flux and scraping it together would not change the solid lump back into a smooth liquid.  The best that you would get would be flux with flecks of solder in it.

So if you've managed to catch the drying up process early enough, you can save it and reuse the pot.  I know this, as it has worked for me.  But if it has dried solid, I'm afraid that it is too late.

Cheers
Paul Willis


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46th message | this message only posted: 19 Nov 2015 17:22
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Paul

This was my experience, once solid absolutely usless
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47th message | this message only posted: 20 Nov 2015 11:15
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from:
Godfrey Earnshaw
 

 

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Hayfield wrote:
Here is a photo of my simple jig for holding the rails in a Vee shape whilst being soldered. My 25 watt iron has to be very hot as the aluminium strip acts as a heat sink
The strip is easily bought from a local DIY store and its 10 x 2 mm
I guess a more ingenious person could invent an adjustable one, but the chocks have to be the correct size.
These jigs can be made from sleeper strip (ply or copperclad) or even thick card, for 4 mm scale 1.06 copperclad strip is fine
Ever so humble Mr Hayfield but I find the statement about the chocks having to be the right size a little strange.
I have found that the use of vee shaped chocks is completely unnecessary. I use a simple round one, usually a cheese head screw. You only need a point of contact on each rail so basically any shape will do. Saves a lot of filing.
Sorry for nit picking.
Cheers 
Godders
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48th message | this message only posted: 21 Nov 2015 06:13
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Godders

Good response, not nit picking as I and I guess others are open to suggestions. I would agree with you that for something that will not be used that often filing up a metal Vee chock may not be necessary. A simple thick piece of card would also work. I am guessing its not a counter sunk head screw, great idea

I have found that if making a few the extra work making a metal one is more than paid off as it takes a few seconds to use, especially as I turn the Vee over and solder the other side.
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49th message | this message only posted: 24 Nov 2015 09:29
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from:
Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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I've been making intermittent progress with my turnout, as you can see on this rather grainy recording. The BBC programme in the background is doubtlessly copyrighted (sorry BBC).
http://www.skoletube.dk/video/1509642/c1c04872725bd055eff4

Things I've learned include:
  1. Use track and check gauges at all times!
  2. It's quite difficult to make the turnout road smooth at the vee. It doesn't show it here, but the wagon snags slightly. I'm going to try repositioning the switch rail and the check rail very slightly
  3. It's complicated doing a combined pcb/plywood turnout, because of the chairs. The 0.5mm copper square under the rail still doesn't quite fill the gap, and as a result the soldering gets messy.
  4. The vee is incredibly smooth! No bump at all when it's aligned properly!!
Progress is very slow because of the very limited time I can give, and because I've spent some time reading, thinking, redoing, and waiting for things I've ordered to arrive. But all these things are useful experiences for the next one, and I am very grateful to you all for the advice and encouragement you have been providing. I think I will build a couple more turnouts, but I am nearing the time when I have to clear up the train room, which doubles as far too many other things, and get designing some baseboards.



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50th message | this message only posted: 24 Nov 2015 09:44
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Martin may be able to add further, check the back to back gauge of the wheels first

As for soldering, tin the items first with very little solder, its much easier if the spacers are narrower than the sleepers. use plenty of flux once soldered to the rails file/grind back to rail sides
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51st message | this message only posted: 24 Nov 2015 09:59
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from:
Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Hayfield wrote: Martin may be able to add further, check the back to back gauge of the wheels first

As for soldering, tin the items first with very little solder, its much easier if the spacers are narrower than the sleepers. use plenty of flux once soldered to the rails file/grind back to rail sides
Hi, and thanks for the immediate response!!
I don't think it's a back to back issue. I think the problem was that I didn't curve the turnout switch enough at the vee. If I check the alignment it is a tiy tiny bit out, which I think is causing the bump. But it was quite late and not well lit when I looked, so I'm going to check again before unsoldering. I will also check the check rail again. As Gordon S points out in his ET thread, he feels the positioning of the check rail is vital to smooth running, and this seems logical to me. Here it could be, as you point out, useful to check the back to back gauge. I assume I can also buy a gauge from C+L whilst purchasing some proper flux... It's a good thing it's nearly Christmas! The items themselves are not at all unreasonably priced, but it is quite expensive getting them sent over here each time!

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52nd message | this message only posted: 24 Nov 2015 11:09
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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The full set of gauges are quite expensive and international postage does not help that much, but once you have them they last hopefully for ever

Good light is a must
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53rd message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2015 18:13
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from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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Hi Jubilee 42.
Just catching up on this thread. I noticed that in your test picture posted on the 13th that the rail on the left is upside down. It is easily done if you were not aware, Bullhead rail has a larger head than the foot, which will cause problems with functional chairs if used the wrong way up. I think you have probably already had enough advise about soldering already without me adding to it!
Good luck with your project.
Tony W.

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54th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2015 20:37
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from:
Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Tony W wrote: Hi Jubilee 42.
Just catching up on this thread. I noticed that in your test picture posted on the 13th that the rail on the left is upside down. It is easily done if you were not aware, Bullhead rail has a larger head than the foot, which will cause problems with functional chairs if used the wrong way up. I think you have probably already had enough advise about soldering already without me adding to it!
Good luck with your project.
Tony W.
Is it? ........
Thank you, that's very useful! I didn't realise there was a right way up with bullhead rail. I thought the whole point of it was to be able to wear out the top and then turn it upside down to wear out the new top. The photo you refer to was only to show the relative height difference between my trunout and SMP rail. The rail was just resting there. However, since there are several individual pieces of rail in a turnout and I have a 50% chance of getting each one right, then I have almost certainly put some bits on upside down. Although this is not nice to know, it's still much better to be aware of it now than in a few months time when I have built several more. I'll go and check now.

Although I have finished all the glueing and soldering I have had problems with the crossing area. Wheels glide through onthe main road, but I have not managed to line up the turnout road successfully enough, and although nothing actually derails, there is a definite bump, especially with the middle wheels of a  6 wheeled chassis. The problem is that the inside closer rails (hope the terminology is correct - it has come from one of Bob Essery's books) are too close together. I'll take a picture..

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55th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2015 21:36
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from:
Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Here is the turnout as of now:
I've not finished the slide chairs. Considering I've never built a turnout before, it's not been a complete disaster. Your helpful advice and encouragement has played a large part in this!
 The switch rails I am particularly pleased with, and the filing and construction of the vee went much better at the second attempt. Everything also runs like a dream through the main road.

The problem is here:

I would ask you all to try to ignore my rather messy soldering (and not least resoldering). At the position marked the wheels hop, some more than others. This is because of the insufficient space between the rails, and because the turnout side closure rail bends just a fraction before the other one, so the wheels hit the other rail. I may have a go at it this weekend if I can find some time (unlikely), but having already unsoldered it once with successful but messy results, I am not sure how much of my attention it can stand. Next time I build a turnout I will spend more time getting it perfectly bent and aligned before any solder is allowed to touch it (although I thought I had this time too).

Finally, yes, some of the rails are upside down:
I hadn't even vaguely considered this, so I'm very grateful to you, Tony, for pointing it out. It explains why some of the chairs threaded easily, and some were obstinate! I think I will run a red marker pen along the bottom edge of the unused rails, because I can only make out any difference through my glasses and a magnifying glass.

Anyway, enough from me. Enjoy your weekends, every one of you!

Best wishes
Richard

PS. Do any of you know whether C+L Pete is OK? It says on the website he was taken ill at a show? He has also sent me several very helpful e-mails recently.

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56th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2015 22:22
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Jubilee42 wrote:The problem is here:



Hi Richard,

Here's some stuff which I have posted before. It looks that your knuckle bend is a bit too sharp (red line below):

The knuckles should be radiused, the knuckle gap being wider than the crossing flangeway gap.

Here's a diagram which may help when setting the wing rail knuckles:



The blue infill shows the theoretical ideal with a sharp bend at K exactly matching the angle of the vee and in line with it. In practice on the prototype it is not possible to make such a sharp bend because of the 1:20 inclination of the rails.

Instead, a short curve is used, as shown by the green line, making the knuckle gap wider than the flangeway gap. It works fine, and can help if replicated on the model. Some companies made this curve quite gentle and obvious as shown -- the NER for example. On the GWR the curve matches the crossing angle in feet, so for example a 1:7 crossing has the knuckle bend curved at 7ft radius.

But it's important to get the flangeway gap correct alongside the nose of the vee at X in the diagram, otherwise there is a risk of wheels dropping into the gap in front of it.

What you must not do is make the knuckle bend too sharp, as shown by the red line. This is guaranteed to cause problems.




p.s. Here's a diagram of bullhead rail section, with the thicker edge on top.


If you have trouble identifying the top edge, try pressing the rail end into a bit of Blu-Tack (or Cheddar cheese) and looking at the impression left. Nowadays for me at least it is easier to see the rail section that way than looking directly at the rail. (40 years ago when I was building track commercially, I could identify the rail just by feel. :) )

The idea of reversing bullhead rail was abandoned because of the indentations in the foot after long use in the chairs. The reason for the heavier top edge is to allow for wear.

regards,

Martin.

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57th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2015 22:47
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from:
Rob Manchester
 

 

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Richard,

If using C&L or Exactoscale chairs they should slide onto the rails easily, just make sure to deburr the rail ends. Putting them on the thicker top of the rail will distort or bend them.

Send the unused cheddar cheese to me for tasting.........

Best wishes to Pete @ C&L, no update on the website as yet.

Rob


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58th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2015 23:42
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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My favourite mistake is shoving the chairs on the rail with the outside on the inside. Not easy to notice until the wheel rims start bumping along the tops of the chairs :(

Nigel

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59th message | this message only posted: 28 Nov 2015 23:02
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from:
Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Martin Wynne wrote: Hi Richard,

Here's some stuff which I have posted before. It looks that your knuckle bend is a bit too sharp (red line below):

The knuckles should be radiused, the knuckle gap being wider than the crossing flangeway gap.

 
regards,

Martin.
Hi Martin
Thanks - that advice was invaluable. I have been tweaking the turnout in line with your recommendations and the result is ... smoothness!! Here's another video taken in rather poor light:
http://www.skoletube.dk/video/1526094/1f94c8544fef6dd7912d
 I am indebted to all of you who have contributed on this thread with much valuable advice, and appreciate that very many of you have extensive trackwork building experience, so perhaps one more or less turnout construction is no big deal, but I, having never tried any of this before, am extremely chuffed! I am planning on this being the first of many turnouts and other more complicated trackwork, and have had a lot of valuable experiences with this first one. There are a few things remaining - isolating the crossing area, attaching dropper wires, gluing the remaining chairs, but the back of this exercise is most definitely broken, I hope.

There is something I am wondering about, though. Soldering the whole turnout would provide strength to the unit, and I can see from attaching little bits of extra track to the approach and exit roads, that the plastic chairs still allow the rail to slide within them. I am slightly concerned that when I lift the turnout from the paper, that it will start to open out (the main side has a slight positive curve). Is this a legitimate worry? At the moment the paper and sticky tape are holding all the timbers in place. Would it be best to just leave the paper and cut round it? Am I worrying needlessly?

I know I have said this before, but I am so so grateful for all the help I have had! A huge thank you to all of you!

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60th message | this message only posted: 29 Nov 2015 00:04
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Jubilee42 wrote:There is something I am wondering about, though. Soldering the whole turnout would provide strength to the unit, and I can see from attaching little bits of extra track to the approach and exit roads, that the plastic chairs still allow the rail to slide within them. I am slightly concerned that when I lift the turnout from the paper, that it will start to open out (the main side has a slight positive curve). Is this a legitimate worry? At the moment the paper and sticky tape are holding all the timbers in place. Would it be best to just leave the paper and cut round it?

Am I worrying needlessly?
Hi Richard,

Well done. :)

It's a long time since I built my first turnout as a teenager, but I can still remember the pleasure of getting it working, and it led to a lifetime interest in railway track.

You are not worrying needlessly. All-soldered copper-clad track is quite robust and can stand some rough handling, but other forms of construction are more fragile, especially in the switch area.

Generally I suggest leaving it attached to the template and burying the whole lot in the ballast. Trim the paper close to the timber ends*, and cut some slits in the paper so that the ballast adhesive can penetrate through into the underlay.

*if you plan ahead when fixing the paper to the work board, this also releases the template from the board. :)

However, this does rather depend on the quality of paper used. Generally I suggest 160gsm as much better for construction templates than ordinary 80gsm office paper. Or even thicker if you can get it and your printer will accept it.

I have seen it suggested to use a penetrating cyano glue on the chairs to fix them to the rail, after assembly is complete, but I haven't tried it so can't comment.

Some builders use Loctite 435 to fix the switch slide chairs to the rail, which otherwise have a habit of falling loose after removal from the template.

regards,

Martin.

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61st message | this message only posted: 29 Nov 2015 00:20
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from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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Hi Richard.
Yes, there is a risk that some timbers using functional chairs can move along the rail once the track is removed from the tape, but it should be a simple matter to gently place the track back over the Templot print and reposition the timbers before laying in place on the layout. It is probably best to leave the track on the plan until one is ready to lay them in position on the baseboard. If you pre-curve your rails (as you should) your constructed track alignment should not really alter.
Martin has already made most of the comments I was going to make, but I would like to emphasise the importance of making sure the two bends at the knuckle are absolutely opposite one another or you will encounter problems as you have discovered. My method of building vee crossings is to make the vee as you have but then lay a smooth flat file on top of my workbench and gently rub the diverging side (i.e. the splice rail side) of the vee back and forth along the top file surface to remove any burrs etc. this will show you where there are any proud spots as you will see the shiny areas where the file is removing the metal.
Once the vee is soldered in position, I fit the straight wing rail by tack soldering two joints checking the crossing flangeway with the Crossing Flangeway gauge and then check the alignment through the vee using a steel rule, there should be no gaps between the rule and the rails. It is important to get this right before proceeding as you have only two solder joins to undo if you need to move the wing rail at this stage. Once you are happy with the first wing rail the second one can be fitted ensuring that the two knuckle bends are opposite each other. If one wants to be really picky, they should be opposite a line bisecting the crossing angle.
Building pointwork is an art and each one will be an improvement on the one before as we learn from experience.
All the best
Tony W.


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62nd message | this message only posted: 29 Nov 2015 01:26
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from:
Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Tony W wrote: Hi Richard.
...
Once the vee is soldered in position, I fit the straight wing rail by tack soldering two joints checking the crossing flangeway with the Crossing Flangeway gauge and then check the alignment through the vee using a steel rule, there should be no gaps between the rule and the rails. It is important to get this right before proceeding as you have only two solder joins to undo if you need to move the wing rail at this stage. Once you are happy with the first wing rail the second one can be fitted ensuring that the two knuckle bends are opposite each other. If one wants to be really picky, they should be opposite a line bisecting the crossing angle.
Building pointwork is an art and each one will be an improvement on the one before as we learn from experience.
All the best
Tony W.

Hi Tony, and thanks. I think my mistake was to think that after I'd managed to solder the vee and file the switch rails I assumed the knuckle would just work, so I laid the closer rails from the Templot plan alone. The plan is excellent, and I'd never have got to starting without it, but it doesn't allow you to dispense with gauges, and soldering too much without checking everything is asking for trouble (I discovered!). However I am now wiser, and nearly ready to commence work on a Y-turnout. But not before some sleep!!

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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Richard

Removing the backing from timbers depends on a couple of things, firstly if you wipe some solvent over the top of the chairs (where the keys are) when the solvent dry's the chairs stick to the rail, not a strong bond but enough

Next is how much tape you have used, I cut strips about 2mm wide, just about enough tack to keep the timbers in place

Flood the plan where the tape is with white spirit, this will degrade the glue on the tape
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64th message | this message only posted: 29 Nov 2015 20:11
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Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Hayfield wrote: Richard

Removing the backing from timbers depends on a couple of things, firstly if you wipe some solvent over the top of the chairs (where the keys are) when the solvent dry's the chairs stick to the rail, not a strong bond but enough

Next is how much tape you have used, I cut strips about 2mm wide, just about enough tack to keep the timbers in place

Flood the plan where the tape is with white spirit, this will degrade the glue on the tape
Dear Mr H
Thanks! Using thinner strips of tape seems eminently sensible. I dabbed the tape with a teatowel as per Gorden S's recommendation, so some of the stick will be gone, but the meths suggestion is very useful. As I mentioned several posts ago, I haven't any baseboards yet, so I think I will put the turnout carefully out of harm's way and on its paper backing until it's needed.

Every few hours I pop downstairs just to run something over the turnout. I am delighted by the way everything glides through! This might sound a little childish, but I can live with that! :D

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65th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2015 00:50
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Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Quick update!
Having got most of the way through building a Y-turnout up until 1½ hours ago, all was going exceedingly well until I managed to knock over almost the whole bottle of Butanone, flooding the trunout and most of the work area. I can confirm that it stinks, and dissolves all sorts of plastics, not just chairs. It also seems to be good at getting paint of pencils.

After much frantic drying up and disposal of kitchen paper, during which our cat coincidentally wet our bed, I have now tried to seal off the rooms and opened all the windows. Not a very happy end to an evening's modelling, and the turnout is looking very much the worse for wear. Thank goodness I wasn't building it in situ! :(
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66th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2015 01:15
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Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Oh dear! Sorry to hear that Richard. :(

We have all been there, but usually only once. After that some ideas like this are added to the workbench:

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/a-useful-item-that-might-be-going-spare-in-your-kitchen.4023/

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/squeeze-bottles/5474226/

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pipe-clips-clamps/6195255/

regards,

Martin.

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67th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2015 07:47
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from:
alan@york
 

 

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My solution:A small butanone bottle is placed in a larger tin, the gap between them was filled with small stones, which were then glued in with PVA. The small bottle is then topped up as required.Forty years on, it is still in use. 
a@yPS Had similar accident too. 
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68th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2015 08:06
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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I just top up a bottle by 1/3rd each time I use it up for both solvent and flux (Clean out flux bottles in between fills), must get round to either buying one of those gismos or drill a hole in an off cut of wood
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69th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2015 09:17
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from:
polybear
 

 

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I buy Butanone from Plumber's Merchants, as "Polypipe CF250 Pipe Cleaner", which is Butanone (NOT "Polypipe Solvent Cement", which is thick gooey stuff). Comes in a short dumpy plastic 250ml screw-lid container - very difficult to knock over. Or buy it from Ebay - 1 Litre of the stuff is currently available for £7-29 incl. delivery; there's several suppliers to choose from. HTH
Brian
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70th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2015 20:52
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Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Thanks for the helpful comments! I can see from the number of spelling mistakes in my post that the fumes were perhaps more heady than I realised! I've still got about 1/3 of the bottle left, so the need for more is not acute, but I am wondering whether I can get some over here. I'm not sure whether you can send Butanone through the post. It's a bit annoying, as it was virtually a full bottle - I'd only glued about 30 chairs with it. Never mind - at least no one got hurt, and I think I might be able to save the turnout if I can get the semi-dissolved chairs off. Luckily it was only one end that got drowned. However the capilliary action spread the glue through the plan and dissolved a lot of the sticky tape. So now I can see for myself what happens when a turnout is removed from the plan..
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71st message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2015 21:11
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from:
Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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Jubilee42 wrote: ... but I am wondering whether I can get some over here. I'm not sure whether you can send Butanone through the post.
Check on your local Ebay in Denmark.   Traders in Ebay in the UK seem to be able to send all sorts of chemicals which you would think that they could not.   You can certainly get 99.9% MEK (Butanone) or an alternative is Dichloromethane (Plastic Weld) which I actually prefer to Butanone since the fumes don't have as much effect on me.

Jim.

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72nd message | this message only posted: 10 Dec 2015 21:46
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Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Turnout nr 2 now finished! Soldering skills improving! Glue bottle in high-tech non tipping device. Bedtime!

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73rd message | this message only posted: 11 Dec 2015 00:23
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Health warning. It's addictive!
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74th message | this message only posted: 11 Dec 2015 10:03
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Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Nigel Brown wrote: Health warning. It's addictive!I think it's a combination of the glue fumes, the lead fumes and the 4-SF (sooo smooooth!!!!! :-D)

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75th message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 19:14
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Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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I've just had a nostalgic half an hour looking back through this thread, which helped me get started, which in turn convinced a friend, that he should have a go! (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1936/entry-19276-my-first-handbuilt-point-is-finished/)
In the latest emgs newsletter (212) there's an interesting article by one Ian Worthington on track building, and he uses pins+ply. I would like to try this method around the vee, and see how I get on with it compared with my pcb method. I can see he has some flat headed brass pins. Do any of you know where I can get hold of these?
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76th message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 20:32
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Jubilee42 wrote: In the latest emgs newsletter (212) there's an interesting article by one Ian Worthington on track building, and he uses pins+ply. I would like to try this method around the vee, and see how I get on with it compared with my pcb method. I can see he has some flat headed brass pins. Do any of you know where I can get hold of these?Hi Richard,

If he is using plywood timbers it is very likely that he is using rivets rather than brass pins -- it is difficult to find ordinary pins with a thick head to raise the rail enough to fit the chairs.

Both the EMGS and the Scalefour Society can supply suitable 1mm dia. rivets, in both 2mm dia. head and 2.5mm dia. head.

The plywood timbers need to be drilled or punched 1mm dia. holes on the rail centre-line. Templot can print a drilling template for that:



The rivets are tubular, and clenched over underneath to fix them. Ideally with a proper press tool, but many folks simply bash them with a small hammer, supporting the head in a washer to prevent crushing it into the plywood. You may see this method described as the Brook-Smith process, after the late Joe Brook Smith who invented it about 60 years ago.

An alternative, also requiring 1mm holes, is to use electronics Vero pins:



These are a push fit, having ribs under the head, so need trimming underneath rather than clenching. They work great in copper-clad, but may not hold very firm in plywood. However, if you then fit cosmetic half-chairs round them with Loctite, that would provide sufficient strength. The advantage of Vero pins over rivets is that the head is smaller (1.6mm dia.), so making the positioning of them less critical when fitting the half-chairs over them. They are also ready tinned for easy soldering.

Vero pins available here (and elsewhere):

 http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/terminal-posts/6319596/

Drawing of Vero pin here:

 http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0e57/0900766b80e578ba.pdf

See here for examples of Vero pins in use (with copper-clad):

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69145-attention-00-sf-track-builders/page-4#entry1793752

See this topic for more trackbuilding info:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2698&forum_id=6

regards,

Martin.

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77th message | this message only posted: 23 Apr 2017 09:26
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from:
Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Thanks Martin, that was (as always) extremely useful! And Templot can help me again!! What a flexible piece of software!

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78th message | this message only posted: 25 Apr 2017 07:32
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Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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I use brass lace making pins,I bought them on the net. I think I Googled buy lace making pins and got a good selection of results to choose from.

Phil
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79th message | this message only posted: 25 Apr 2017 18:34
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Jubilee42
Rødovre, Denmark



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Thanks - I could see how that could work!
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80th message | this message only posted: 3 May 2017 19:26
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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I build my crossing B and wing rails as a piece soldered to 0.6mm copper strips, cosmestic chairs then added as required . I just superglue the copper pieces to the relevant sleeper

What I do find awkward is holding both wing rails and the V in place while I solder it to the copper shim

I trying to design a jig that would hold everything , not that easy
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