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                                       Make a crossover from straight to curved track
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 16 Apr 2017 11:36
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from:
Panos Tsirigotis
 

 

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Hello there.
Although I am about to complete my track plan (with all the imperfections it has), there is a specific spot marked with a red cirlce in the attached screenshot which I cannot bridge. It is a crossover from straight to curved track. My problem is that I want to insert a curved turnout with it's curvature oriented at the track's curve (If you know what I mean). It seems that the inserted turnout in the curved track has an opposite curvature. (Or there is an optical illusion?).Is there any other shortcut to make this crossover?

thank you in advance



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2nd message | this message only posted: 16 Apr 2017 12:08
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from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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Hi Panos.
I would try to link the two ends with a piece of plain track and get the alignment right first and then insert a turnout into it, after which you can play around with the handedness and curvature of the diverging road by altering the turnout type.
Regards
Tony.

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3rd message | this message only posted: 16 Apr 2017 12:20
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from:
DerekStuart
United Kingdom

 

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I agree with Tony. I think you will need to end up with the turnout further down the 'bottom right' of the screen and a far more gentle Vee though. Might be worth selecting 'curviform' too.

At the moment that turnout would give you quite a severe reverse curve.

**DISCLAIMER** I know nothing about anything.
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4th message | this message only posted: 16 Apr 2017 12:23
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Panos,

1. Try starting with the turnout on the left, set curviform and the TS spacing, and then tools > make branch crossover. You can then extend the turnout to a longer size (to increase the inner radius) with F5 mouse action, and link it to the existing curve using the make transition function.

2. Alternatively, curviform then tools > make branch track, adjust the radius to tangency (by eye) with the existing curve using F6 mouse action, and then insert a turnout into the curves at the intersection. There is a page about how to do that at:

 http://templot.com/vis_box/turnout_on_intersect/

Also at:

 http://templot.com/companion/fit_turnout_to_existing_curves.html

That page is in an experimental format which I didn't use again, sorry if it is all a bit confusing.

regards,

Martin.

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5th message | this message only posted: 16 Apr 2017 14:23
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Panos,

I have had a dabble with your previous .box file (I don't know how well that corresponds with your latest plan).



With your original B-7.25 turnout (red), the curved turnout is going to be very long, around F-20, which is not only more difficult to build, it might also look a bit out of keeping with your other much shorter turnouts.

So instead I moved your turnout to the left and increased it to a D-12. It is then possible to create a more likely-looking crossover, with the curved turnout at D-12.43

You could change that to a standard D-12 and tidy up the alignments if you wished.

I used method 2. in my previous post, inserting the turnout at the intersection. It needed a 180-degree rotation after creation (SHIFT+F8), because Templot isn't as clever as you might think. :)

I'm not going to post the .box file because your old file contains a lot of misalignments which you have probably now fixed.

I have to say that learning Templot while at the same time trying to create your intended final plan is not a good idea. I have made this point many times before, although no-one ever takes any notice. :)

It is much better to learn Templot using trial track plans and test templates. Then only when you have a good grasp of Templot, start on your intended final plan. That way is much less frustrating, because when things don't turn out as intended it doesn't matter, and you can learn as you go along.

Ideally, when designing your final plan, you should know exactly what is going to happen before you click something, instead of finding out afterwards. :)

regards,

Martin.

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6th message | this message only posted: 16 Apr 2017 18:16
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Panos,

Here's an alternative which would be a bit easier to build (shorter turnouts), at the expense of a less smoothly flowing curve through the junction.



The turnout on the left is a C-10.

The curved turnout is C-9.14 as you can see.

The outer curve in the turnout is 7215mm which in N gauge terms is very gentle, but just enough to look curved and pleasing to the eye.

You could of course use a dead straight left-hand turnout instead, but that would swap the main running road and the speed restrictions.

regards,

Martin.

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7th message | this message only posted: 17 Apr 2017 12:05
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from:
Panos Tsirigotis
 

 

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Thank you Tony, Derek and Martin for your suggestions.
Martin, the reason of my delayed response was that I did a research on the prototype track plans studying carefully the specifications of these turnouts.

Despite the fact that every solution-suggestion you made is utterly correct in terms of geometry and operation I made the desicion to follow the prototype cause it does reflect the necessity of the time the yard was built. After all it is not a main line but a local sorting yard with speed restrictions. That mean that trains pass trhrough these points with no more than 15mph. The complex crossing track area at the right of the layout it also made 

Further research of the plans at that point revealed the use of 1:8 Vee angle in both the turnouts that forms the specific crossover as you can see at the attached file. It also states that turnouts are facing Right and Left and no curved turnout is used which means that the use of a dead straight left-hand turnout as you suggested at your last quote, is probably the way to go.

I will also agree with you that one must start practicing on a blank screen before his own layout, but for me and I think for most of us out there, our track plan, our layout in general is our motivation for learning various stuff... :)

Best regards!  


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8th message | this message only posted: 17 Apr 2017 13:41
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Panos,

In that case, if they are both 1:8 straight turnouts, I suspect they are both also regular V-crossings, not curviform.

In that case it is very easy:

1. create a 1:8 turnout with a regular crossing.

2. set the TS adjacent track centres.

3. tools > make branch crossover.

It then needs to be aligned with the approach curve, or the curve aligned with the crossover.

Here I am assuming the approach curve is fixed, so I am adjusting the position of the crossover.

I added some dummy curved approach track to the branch turnout and grouped the 3 templates (click them, then G on its menu for each one).

Then using the notch linking functions I am adjusting the length of the plain track on the left while the group is linked to it, until the approach curve is in a position where the make transition function can be used to create the final approach (that means not quite tangential -- the offset determines the length of the transition zone).



More about notch linking here:

 http://templot.com/martweb/gs_mouse_notes.htm#notch_linking

And also in this old video:

 http://templot.com/martweb/videos/notch_loco_depot.exe

Sorry that's all out of date, but the basics remain the same.

A more up-to-date explanation of notch linking is in this recent video (at part 3):

help > watch a video > switch close behind V-crossing menu item.

regards,

Martin.

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