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                                       Constructing Turnouts on Templot Drawings
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 10:17
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from:
leswaters
Newcastle Upon Tyne, United Kingdom

 

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Hello
Thanks to this forum I have had a breakthrough this week on getting large Templot drawings printed by a commercial printer.  My project is a large garden railway in O gauge where there are some complex crossings.  All the drawings have been completed in Templot and I am currently working in my garden shed where an eight road fiddleyard is required.

My concerns are as follows.  Up to now I have built turnouts on melamine boards where I have used spray on photo mount adhesive to stick the Templot drawing down.  Then I use double sided sellotape to hold the sleepers in place.  Finally, the chairs and rail are installed.  When completed I carefully lift the whole assembly off the double sided tape.  This works well for single points but when I come to build larger crossing, say a double scissors, I would prefer to build the assembly in situ on the baseboard. However, with the layout being exposed to the elements I am concerned about the bonds between the baseboard (which is likely to be made from waterproof tiling board), the paper Templot drawing and the plastic sleepers.  Water based adhesives would not appear to be an option.

Has anyone on this forum any ideas on how I might achieve a good bond between them ?  What I don't want to do is spend a lot of time and effort on track work that will eventually lift off the boards.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Regards

Les

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2nd message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 11:24
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Les

How about sticking the template down to the trackbed with waterproof PVA.

PVA on the board then put the paper on to it

I would then carefully coat the template with varnish making the whole thing waterproof

Timbers can then be laid using either impact adhesive or one of the more modern glues.

Prior to laying the timbers, sand the top of the plan flat perhaps re-varnishing after the timbers are laid and stuck firm
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3rd message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 12:44
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from:
leswaters
Newcastle Upon Tyne, United Kingdom

 

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Hayfield
Many thanks for your reply.  Some good ideas here.  I understand where you are coming from with the waterproof PVA. However, I am concerned that waterproof PVA will be water based which could be absorbed by the paper drawing.  Consequently, it might stretch, wrinkle and distort it enough to cause discrepancies over large areas.  However, I am not well enough informed about adhesives to know for sure.

Thank you once again..

Regards Les

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4th message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 13:49
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Les,

Anything water-based is likely to cockle the paper. I think you would need to coat the template with something like waterproof yacht varnish, perhaps diluted with thinners a little to allow better absorption. If you spike holes in the paper under the timber locations, or even drill small holes through into the sub-base, the adhesive used to fix the timbers would penetrate down through the template into the base.

But what method of track construction are you using? Outdoor lines need a good allowance for expansion and contraction -- fixing it solidly to a board may not be ideal. You might want something resilient in between, such as a layer of roofing felt.

I myself wouldn't want to build complex pointwork in outdoor conditions. It might be easier to build it indoors on small panels of say external plywood, or even on the old traditional method of battens. For plastic timbers you could update that idea with plastic strips, such as from the Evergreen range:

 http://www.evergreenscalemodels.com/Strips.htm

e.g. 24" long x 188 thou square? (3/16" sq).

Buried in ballast the strips wouldn't be too badly affected by sunlight-embrittlement.

Just an idea, I haven't actually tried it.  :)

You might find these topics on the Western Thunder forum worth a look:

 http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/a-venture-into-the-garden.4597/

 http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/garden-railway-track-materials.4083/

regards,

Martin.

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5th message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 14:20
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from:
leswaters
Newcastle Upon Tyne, United Kingdom

 

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MartinThanks for your suggestions.  I have a friend in Australia who has an O gauge garden railway subject to temperature variations more extreme than our own.  He has used impact adhesive to glue the plastic sleepers to the baseboard (waterproof tiling panels) which is then subsequent ballasted.  The support structure is made from galvanised steel battens used in dry lined stud walls (readily available from Wickes). The completed baseboards are then mounted on steel fencing posts.  We are in frequent contact and he assures me has had no problems over the past few years.  I suppose if the plastic sleepers are well fixed and the rails are adequately gapped then all should be well.  The problem for me is my concern in fixing the Templot drawing to the baseboard with a strong adhesive that does not affect the paper.  The idea of using yacht varnish to seal the paper sounds good.  But will the plastic track base adhere to the varnished paper.  I think I will try a small test section to see if this system will work.

I would never attempt to build track outdoors so all of mine will be built indoors on each baseboard before being installed outside.

Regards Les

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6th message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 15:19
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from:
Borg-Rail
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Hi,
I'd stick (sorry for the pun) with your normal method. The complex that appears as my avatar was built this way some years ago. It made it to North America where it is still in service.
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7th message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 15:34
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Just a couple of ideas, no idea if they will work.
(1) Can you print onto something other than paper? E.g. slide film for OHPs?
(2) Can you laminate the paper templates?

Nigel
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8th message | this message only posted: 22 Apr 2017 15:38
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
leswaters wrote:The problem for me is my concern in fixing the Templot drawing to the baseboard with a strong adhesive that does not affect the paper.Hi Les,

How laborious do you want the process to be? :)

If you lay the template down with Spraymount or similar, you could then cut out each timber location with a craft knife and peel it away. The timbers could then be stuck directly to the baseboard in the slots.

A somewhat tedious process, but against that you don't have to spend time on preparing the template, waiting for varnish to dry, worrying about it distorting, etc. You can use your normal method.

If it is complex pointwork, there will be lots of long timbers rather than a mass of short sleepers, so cutting them all out may not actually take too long.

regards,

Martin.

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9th message | this message only posted: 23 Apr 2017 08:12
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Firstly I agree with Martin, do not build in situ

I have had paper stuck with spray adhesive peel off after a year or two

My advice should have said, glue (spareingly) the baseboard only, then put the paper on top
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10th message | this message only posted: 23 Apr 2017 08:42
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from:
leswaters
Newcastle Upon Tyne, United Kingdom

 

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Firstly, my thanks to all who have replied to this post.
I really want to keep any solution as simple as possible.  One problem is the sheer amount of work involved in this project.  So anything I do needs to be thought through carefully so it is not too labour intensive.  From the replies so far I think it might be well worth experimenting a little.  I will trial the tiling board with the paper template of one turnout fixed and coated with yacht varnish. Then I will build the turnout gluing the sleepers onto the template with contact adhesive and then leave it outside for a few weeks to see what happens.  I have plenty of work to get on with inside the shed anyhow.  If the trial piece fails then I have lost very little and if it works then I can proceed with greater confidence.  I have been researching garden railways for some time now and it seems that commercially available track base stands up well to UV and other environmental factors.  It seems the trick is to get the track base right with suitable rail gaps for expansion and contraction purposes.

Thank you one again for your comments.

Regards

Les

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11th message | this message only posted: 17 Jun 2017 09:37
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from:
roythebus
Aldington Frith, Ashford, Kent, United Kingdom

 

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I recently had the pleasure of visiting a friend in Germany who has a very large G scale American outdoor layout. It was about 32c in the sun and he had huge problems with track expansion. The track is loosely laid on ballast on narrow block paving. Just be warned, expansion can be a problem outdoors! Luckily it wasn't bad enough to stop trains running :)
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12th message | this message only posted: 28 Aug 2017 06:59
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from:
TonyGoodsall
United Kingdom

 

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Hello
Why not use thick card like 160g or 180g to print your plan onto then seal with a varnish. This is what I use no wrinkle problems.

Tony

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