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                                       Moving from Computer to Layout Construction
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 9 May 2017 05:40
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from:
Rick
Australia

 

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I love Templot.
Having spent a good deal of time over the last couple of months learning / relearning the intracacies of Templot that make this software so fantastic, I can now say that it's time to put down the mouse and keyboard and pick up some glue, sleepers and rail. Construction has started.

I was able to print the many A0 size sheets of paper that was generated by Templot to a PDF file, use these to help cut the benchwork to size and then glue them down to the plywood ready for track laying.

It's been about 12 years since I handlaid any rail so I'll have to make a soldering jig to build the turnouts.
Sleepers are being laid and this can be a very therapeutic exercise in its own right.

I've added a photo to show some progress.

Thanks to Martin for developing this exceptional piece of software and thanks to the many contributors on this forum who add to the understanding of using the tool.


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2nd message | this message only posted: 9 May 2017 07:40
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from:
wcampbell23
Hamilton, Scotland, United Kingdom



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Hi Rick

That looks very intriguing, so now you have our attention, would you like to post a copy of the whole track plan?

Regards.

Bill Campbell.

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3rd message | this message only posted: 9 May 2017 08:57
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from:
Rick
Australia

 

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wcampbell23 wrote:
That looks very intriguing, so now you have our attention, would you like to post a copy of the whole track plan?

Sure Bill ... no worries.  Box file attached.
I'm working in On30 and the layout sits on two walls of my trainroom measuring 5.2m x 4.9m with an island for a wye to turn engines.

It's point to point at the moment and I don't think it'll expand behind/around/through the other activity sharing the space with my trains. Maybe .....

It's a switching layout with car card operation in mind.
The two "branches" on the RHS wall are at different elevations ... the one along the wall up higher than the aisle branch sidings in front by about 3 inches for visual separation and grades for the engine to work with dcc sound.

Haven't run trains in about 12 years so keen to get something going.
The first of the rails have been laid today after making the turnout soldering jig and testing it out.

The photo I posted originally is taken from near the origin in the box file.

Best regards,
Rick




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4th message | this message only posted: 9 May 2017 09:55
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from:
wcampbell23
Hamilton, Scotland, United Kingdom



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Hi Rik

Thanks for posting the box file - it looks as though your layout will have lots of operating potential.

I am sure that I am not the only one who would like you to keep us abreast of developments.

Best wishes.

Bill.
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5th message | this message only posted: 9 May 2017 11:37
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Nice one. As a matter of interest, what are you using for track underlay?

Nigel
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6th message | this message only posted: 9 May 2017 14:17
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from:
Rick
Australia

 

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Nigel Brown wrote: Nice one. As a matter of interest, what are you using for track underlay?

Nigel
Hi Nigel :
The layout is/will be handlaid code 83 rail on wood ties.
The base of the layout is constructed of pine timber framework with 15mm construction-grade (cheap) plywood sheet cut as needed to support the roadbed.
Roadbed is 5mm thick white foamboard glued down to the plywood and Templot plan sheets are glued to that with spray adhesive to stop the large paper plots from shrivelling when glued up.  I have used the foamboard on a layout before with great success ... it's relatively cheap compared to say cork sheet and gives a perfectly smooth surface for the ties. And it's very easy to work with a razorblade.

so from top to bottom : rail->sleepers->Templot paper plots->foamboard->plywood.

The Micro Engineering rail spikes are longer than the ties are deep so there needs to be something between the ties and the plywood. They won't go into the plywood. This is where the foamboard excels.

Best regards,
Rick
 

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7th message | this message only posted: 9 May 2017 16:56
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Thought it looked like foamboard. Never occurred to me to try that. I'll bear it in mind.

Does it have any sound-deadening properties? I like quiet layouts. My current layout uses MDF, which I thought might deaden sound, but it acts like a drum :(
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8th message | this message only posted: 15 May 2017 03:34
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from:
Rick
Australia

 

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Nigel Brown wrote: Thought it looked like foamboard. Never occurred to me to try that. I'll bear it in mind.

Does it have any sound-deadening properties? I like quiet layouts. My current layout uses MDF, which I thought might deaden sound, but it acts like a drum :(
Hi Nigel :I've been waiting to get some rails laid before I answered your question to confirm what I thought would be the answer ...

In essence, the foamboard with handlaid track on wood sleepers is definitely noisier than an alternate roadbed such as Peco flextrack laid on 3mm thick cork, whereas Peco flextrack laid on 5mm foamboard is only marginally noisier than the flextrack/cork combo.  And all those three comparisons are laid on the same 15mm thick plywood subroadbed.

I've used foamboard in the past for an exhibition layout where the foamboard roadbed was glued to 40mm thick extruded foam sheet to achieve an extremely light weight layout. While the switching layout currently under construction is fixed to the walls and is going nowhere, I've kept to the foamboard material for convenience of installation, relative $$ cheapness and giving a smooth, even base for laying sleepers.

If I wanted dead quietness, I'd go for flextrack laid on cork.

The issue you are experiencing with mdf seems to me to relate more to the baseboard design and construction than the material used. The thicker and more solid that the baseboard material is, then generally the quiter it will be too. Well that's my experience and others could equally claim differing opinions on that issue. Some modellers say that the use of specific glues for attaching the roadbed to the baseboards will make a difference in sound drumming but I'm not convinced. It could be true.

Back to track laying ...



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9th message | this message only posted: 15 May 2017 11:24
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Hi Rick

Thanks for the reply. I'll ditch the foamboard idea! I used cork on top of ply on my one-time American HO layout and found it quite loud, although I was using PVA and it's possible a more flexible glue would have been quieter.

Currently I'm using MDF on a framework of 6mm 4" deep ply sides and 12mm ends, with a few 6mm cross-pieces, just tacked and glued around the edges, with the track laid directly on the MDF, using matte medium to fix track and ballast. It's possible that the framework I'm using means the MDF acts like a drum.

I've had a look at Woodland scenics track underlay but reckon it's not firm enough for handlaid track.

Nigel
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10th message | this message only posted: 15 May 2017 13:55
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from:
stuart1600
United Kingdom

 

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I'm intrigued as to why Sundeala seems to be so out of fashion these days.  It's unique facility of enabling you to just push pins in to secure track work still seems to be worthwhile to me - and if you need to adjust something subsequently it's easy to extract the pins.  Once you've hammered a pin into MDF it's pretty much there for good.
Is there some drawback to Sundeala that has eluded me?  I hope not, as I've just invested in a load of 8'x4' sheets for my "long-in-the-planning-finally-to-be-built-layout" :?

Regards,
Stuart

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11th message | this message only posted: 15 May 2017 14:06
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
stuart1600 wrote: I'm intrigued as to why Sundeala seems to be so out of fashion these days.Hi Stuart,

I'm also a fan of Sundeala. It does tend to be more expensive than other fibreboards:

 https://www.sundeala.co.uk/sundeala-hobbyboard-z-69.html

But only as a top roadbed -- it is not self-supporting over more than a few inches between framing and will eventually sag and warp if used without a flat sub-base such as ply.

In addition to taking pins easily, it can be cut cleanly with a Stanley knife to make precision fits, such as a removable bridge section.

regards,

Martin.

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12th message | this message only posted: 15 May 2017 14:21
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Sundeala has a bad reputation on web forums, probably for the wrong reasons. It needs to have adequate bracing underneath to prevent sagging, or placed on top of say a plywood sub-base. It deteriorates in damp conditions, but who would build a layout in damp conditions? The same is said of MDF and I've never had problems.

Suspect the poor reputation is from people just having baseboard framing around the edges and no cross-bracing.
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13th message | this message only posted: 16 May 2017 02:35
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from:
Rick
Australia

 

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It's a lot of fun and very easy to set up jigs for building turnouts with a Templot template.




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14th message | this message only posted: 17 May 2017 22:59
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from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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Hi Stuart.
At the risk of hijacking this thread, I too have recently purchased a large quantity of Sundeala board for my new layout project as my inexperience with it has much to commend it. It does need more than adequate support and in spite what is recommended on the instruction sheet that comes with it, I would not countenance a greater unsupported span than 12" to avoid sagging. It is certainly more sound absorbing than plywood. My previous layout used Sundeala for the scenic boards and Plywood for the fiddle-yard both under a layer of cork. There is a noticeable difference in sound level as trains cross the baseboard join between the two materials.
Regards
Tony.

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15th message | this message only posted: 18 May 2017 07:58
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from:
stuart1600
United Kingdom

 

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Tony W wrote: Hi Stuart.
At the risk of hijacking this thread, ....... I would not countenance a greater unsupported span than 12" to avoid sagging. It is certainly more sound absorbing than plywood. ....
Regards
Tony.
Tony,
It's really me who should be apologising for hijacking the thread. I should perhaps have started a new thread but as ever one thing seems to lead to another in these discussions....
I'm laying the Sundeala on a 6mm plywood sub-base which is itself supported on fairly hefty timbers spanning the kitchen base units that serve as "legs".  Otherwise I would agree with you that a 12" grid of supports is advisable.  I'm sure that the doommongers who disparage Sundeala do so because they haven't provided adequate support for it.
Regards,
Stuart

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