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                                       Currently Unnamed 4-SF layout
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 22 May 2017 14:27
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hello all,
This is my current plan for my 4-sf layout in the loft.  Being just less than 15ft square I decided against sharp curves and shortish straights and went for a long approx 6ft radius curve to make it look a little more realistic.

The line going to the top left of the plan leads to a branch fiddleyard and the whole plan is based loosely off Pontrillas but I will set it more on a lms/lner line maybe.  I have added in some extra sidings and such at the top for some added interest that I might play around with a little later.

As for the station itself It has 2 mainline platforms and a bay with loop for the branch line and also for the goods trains to shunt around on to keep the main clear. 

The issues I have:
1. I have made a single slip on the mainline, I followed the video tutorial and I think I have done it right?
2. Because I am running out of space for the goods yard behind the station and cannot move the whole thing up I really need to add in a 3 way tandem turnout (So I can remove a point and save a little space).  Now I tried to follow all the old instructions but when I added the 3rd set with no timbers it looked horribly wrong.  So if anyone out there has experience with them that could help me get that finished that would be a big help as it's the only thing I am stuck on.

Other than that I just need to shove some timbers and wait for C&L to re-open. 

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2nd message | this message only posted: 22 May 2017 14:28
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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and the background shapes file
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Attachment: high_road_17_03_02_1841_56.bgs (Downloaded 24 times)
 
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3rd message | this message only posted: 24 May 2017 07:13
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from:
Borg-Rail
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Hi,
Slip looks OK to me, I'll have a look at the 3 way this am
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4th message | this message only posted: 24 May 2017 07:43
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from:
Borg-Rail
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Hi,
I've had a go at the 3 way, just needs the timbering sorting out now.
Borg-Rail wrote: Hi,
Slip looks OK to me, I'll have a look at the 3 way this am


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Attachment: high_road_2017_05_24_0840_57.box (Downloaded 23 times)
 
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5th message | this message only posted: 24 May 2017 10:05
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Michael,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

I noticed there are several places where you have used a regular type of V-crossing:



where it would achieve a better "flow" to use curviform V-crossings instead.

Where you have contraflexure with a regular V-crossing, the vee splice rail also has contraflexure. Sometimes this is what you want (in a curved crossover for example). But in many cases where the intention is for the tracks to diverge, it is better to change to a curviform V-crossing.

Otherwise you will have a short section of reverse curve in the diverging road. Often this doesn't show very obviously on the screen, but it will do when looking along the finished tracks. To see what I mean, here I have greatly exaggerated the effect:





I see this problem very often in uploaded track plans. I have tried to explain it so many times over the years that I'm not sure I have the strength to carry on. :)

Templot can't automatically make this change when the curving radius goes negative because there are many cases where it would not be wanted -- in curved crossovers for example.

More about types of V-crossings at:

 http://templot.com/martweb/gs_realtrack.htm

Also in the upper two of your turnouts above, you have used "A" switches where there is plenty of room for longer "B" switches. "A" switches aren't normally used in running lines because of the severe switch deflection. Admittedly, the effect is mitigated where there is contraflexure.

regards,

Martin.

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6th message | this message only posted: 24 May 2017 13:51
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from:
John Palmer
 

 

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I struggled to come up with an acceptable tandem incorporating a 1 : 5 crossing for the two outer roads, but retained the resulting tandem on the attached boxfile, for what it's worth.  With a bit of tweaking of switch positions I managed to move the 1 : 5 crossing to a position where neither of its wing rails got truncated.

On the attached boxfile I took the liberty of making a significant modification to your proposed layout with a view to improving its operational flexibility.  The modification consists of adding a shunting neck running parallel to the branch.  My rationale for this is that your original layout appeared to require occupation of the branch for any shunting of the yard.  Depending upon how the layout is signalled (particularly as regards the position of the Branch Home), any shunting operations may have to be suspended prior to acceptance of a train from the next block post on the branch.  With the neck added, shunting can proceed without conflict with any movements over the branch, including release of a branch train engine following its arrival in the bay.  In this arrangement I didn't find it neceesary to make use of any tandems.

Apologies for the liberty-taking with your design!

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7th message | this message only posted: 24 May 2017 13:56
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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Martin , have you written anywhere about the best design for a curved crossover, Are both turnouts curved , or is only one. What type of V crossing is best suited

( hopefully you'll find the will to go on :thumb:)

Dave
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8th message | this message only posted: 24 May 2017 14:14
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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madscientist wrote: Martin , have you written anywhere about the best design for a curved crossover, Are both turnouts curved , or is only one. What type of V crossing is best suited

( hopefully you'll find the will to go on :thumb:)
Hi Dave,

No problem about the will. It's the strength that's lacking. :)

The way to make a crossover is to start with the first turnout, curved or straight, and then click tools > make ordinary crossover.

What else do you need to know? What beginners sometimes struggle to grasp is that in a double-track crossover, curved or straight, both turnouts are always of the SAME hand. This is the opposite of what happens when trying to fudge a curved crossover using ready-made curved turnouts such as Peco.  

Remember to set the TS adjacent track centres beforehand, if necessary.

The V-crossings should be regular for preference, or generic. Curviform V-crossings create an instant reverse curve in the middle of the crossover road - if that's what you want you will have to create the crossover manually.

regards,

Martin.

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9th message | this message only posted: 24 May 2017 15:33
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks very much everyone. I did not know anything about the curviform crossing so thanks for pointing that out. (I really should read more tutorials)

Borg & John, Thanks very much for those template files. I was really struggling to make the goods yard "work" but now I am one step closer to getting it started now :)
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10th message | this message only posted: 27 May 2017 07:10
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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Thanks 
Dave 

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11th message | this message only posted: 11 Jun 2017 10:41
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Right,  I have made a few changes based off some suggestions to make the goods yard sidings longer and slightly operationally better.  Iv'e printed it out and layed it out in the loft and it just about fits, but the dimensions in templot say it'll fit perfectly but I wasn't taking too much care in laying out the many peices of paper!  Just got to do some timber nudging now.
I seem to have forgotten where the option is to add where the ballast shoulder should be?  Is there an easy way to apply it to all the track?

Cheers

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Attachment: theeloftplan4.box (Downloaded 17 times)
 
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12th message | this message only posted: 11 Jun 2017 11:35
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from:
Borg-Rail
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Michael Henfrey wrote: Right,  I have made a few changes based off some suggestions to make the goods yard sidings longer and slightly operationally better.  Iv'e printed it out and layed it out in the loft and it just about fits, but the dimensions in templot say it'll fit perfectly but I wasn't taking too much care in laying out the many peices of paper!  Just got to do some timber nudging now.
I seem to have forgotten where the option is to add where the ballast shoulder should be?  Is there an easy way to apply it to all the track?

Cheers
Comes under geometry - you have to group all the templates first.

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13th message | this message only posted: 11 Jun 2017 11:35
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Michael Henfrey wrote: I seem to have forgotten where the option is to add where the ballast shoulder should be?Hi Michael,

Menu items:

1. geometry > trackbed edges > trackbed intent > ballast edge + cess

2. geometry > trackbed edges > add trackbed edge TS / MS

That sets the control template.

Is there an easy way to apply it to all the track?geometry > trackbed edges > modify group to match


More info:

geometry > trackbed edges > ? trackbed - help

regards,

Martin.
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14th message | this message only posted: 11 Jun 2017 11:41
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks :)
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15th message | this message only posted: 12 Jun 2017 16:24
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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all the timbers have been nudged I think.  I hope I have done them right as I didn't touch any supporting the vee's or checkrails or where the tiebar needs to go.  I have taken to cutting some sleepers shorter rather than adding in lots of long ones.  Track edges have also been done :)
Next step is to try and align the templates and glue them down onto smaller cork sections so I can make them up a section at a time in a more comfy location :)

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16th message | this message only posted: 23 Jul 2017 10:24
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi all,
Due to the space in my loft my goods yard was still getting shorter so I had a little idea..  I have removed it from the back of the station of which I think a village scene would look really nice there and tried moving it to the front which gives me an extra ft or so of length.  It also means I don't have to lean over so much to work on the goods yard!

Now the downsides is that anything using the branch has to use the main to run around, not so much of an issue maybe as I want to keep it quite countryside based.  The other downside is that the goods yard would use the lay-by as a headshunt, so I am wondering if I could get away with using that as a headshunt but also as a lay-by for slow goods trains on occasion?



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17th message | this message only posted: 23 Jul 2017 13:16
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from:
John Palmer
 

 

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An alternative suggestion, adapted from an earlier version of your plan:
Rather than having a facing movement from lie-by into sidings, project forward from lie-by into shunting neck and lay out the sidings as a kickback from the neck.  This way, shunting can proceed independently of the recessing of a train in the lie-by.
So far as I can see, branch train engines can be released from a train standing in the bay and run round (or go on shed) without having to go onto the main lines at all.  Have I missed something?




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18th message | this message only posted: 23 Jul 2017 15:28
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks John,
Ive attached some pictures so you can get an idea of the space I have.  Unfortunately I don't think I would have that much space at the front there when points are included etc.  The branch line bit I was more on about goods incoming and outgoing from the branch/mainline as they would need to cross the main to get to it.

I'm starting to wonder if a complete re-think is needed and that it should be all dumbed down alot and have less going on..  Then again it's taken me ages to get this far and I'm not sure I have the willpower to make another track plan now





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19th message | this message only posted: 23 Jul 2017 17:52
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Think you're OK with using the layby to shunt the yard. A train can arrive in the layby, loco run around it, and shunt away.
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20th message | this message only posted: 23 Jul 2017 21:39
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Nigel Brown wrote: Think you're OK with using the layby to shunt the yard. A train can arrive in the layby, loco run around it, and shunt away.Thanks,  I have been playing around in templot a little and wondered if I could do something a little different and still retain some of the good features and I wondered about having a goods siding mich like that like Eastwood http://www.shmrc.org.uk/club-layouts/eastwood/
Anyway not messed about too much with it, added in the goods loop siding and a spur for the branch line with an interesting platform arrangement,  but not figured out how to add in a run around for the branch yet as it cannot go any higher.

Thoughts?

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21st message | this message only posted: 25 Jul 2017 15:49
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Ok,  I have had a little break from it and tried changing a few things around.  In this version I have got rid of the branch run around and instead push pulls/dmu's can go straight into the bay, anything needing to run around can join the mainline and run around there before moving to the bay.
I have tried moving the goods yard to the front (at the bottom) along with the cattle docks as that's the only place I could see to put them? and have turned the inside loop into mostly a goods yard headshunt but could also be used by slow moving goods trains to move out of the way?

The outside loop has an extension on the end for the same reason.  I do loose a small industry with this plan though? i.e timber yard/dairy/mill etc.

At the top left and left hand side behind the railway will be the country village/town that crosses over the branch line with a level crossing.  and then a small country road will lead down past the station for the entrance to that.



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22nd message | this message only posted: 25 Jul 2017 16:23
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from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

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Looking fine to me. Does the branch actually go anywhere or is it a dummy?
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23rd message | this message only posted: 25 Jul 2017 17:08
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from:
Michael Henfrey
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Nigel Brown wrote: Looking fine to me. Does the branch actually go anywhere or is it a dummy?It goes up to a fiddleyard above the mainline fiddleyard.  That's why I cannot move it any further around because of the incline.
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