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                                       Making a start on shoving timbers
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 16 Jul 2017 20:22
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from:
d827kelly
Coventry, United Kingdom

 

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With kind help from here and the Scalefour forum, I've got a workable plan that both myself and my co-operator are happy with.

Now I need to turn to sorting out something I've not really looked at before now, timber shoving.

I've looked at the prototype for the area the layout is based upon, Shepperton, and it seems to suggest straight-on timbering, which is what it is already, so that should be fine.

I've made a start on the crossover in the station/platform area. Lengthened some, moved others. I think I'm getting there. Some feedback before I carry on with other points would be helpful.



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message ref: 21666
Attachment: Shepperton - v11.0.4 - Attempting Timber Shoving.box (Downloaded 6 times)
 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 16 Jul 2017 22:20
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from:
d827kelly
Coventry, United Kingdom

 

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Done some googling and further reading of various timber shoving threads, etc, Attached is attempt at shoving timbers on all the turnouts on the plan. I think I've mostly got it right, probably needs further tweaking and may have used more longer sleepers than would have been normal (era is 1959-62, BR(S)).



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Attachment: Shepperton - v11.0.4c - Attempting Timber Shoving.box (Downloaded 6 times)
 
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3rd message | this message only posted: 16 Jul 2017 22:55
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from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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Hi Kelly.
I have had a look at your first attempt posted earlier. You must not move the timbers supporting the crossings as you have done, only lengthen / shorten and twist them. Their spacing is predetermined by the crossing angle. This has been stated many times before but people still do it. Trying to timber crossovers correctly can be quite difficult sometimes. It is often easier to adjust the track spacing slightly to get the timbers to align before attempting anything else. I have reset the timbering of the platform crossover and adjusted the track centres to 44.9mm which gives a much better starting point. The ideal spacing will vary according to the crossing angle. I have realigned the approach curve to match. Take a look at which timbers I have shoved as a guide to what to do. I have only lengthened the turnout timbers without moving any. The sleepers on the exit roads have been shoved / moved forward / back to fit into the gaps between the timbers of the adjacent turnouts. I have also altered the turnout timbering of the yard turnout to give you an example of a correct way to do things for your period.

Regards
Tony.

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message ref: 21668
Attachment: kelly_shepperton_timbering revised.box (Downloaded 9 times)
 
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4th message | this message only posted: 16 Jul 2017 22:59
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from:
d827kelly
Coventry, United Kingdom

 

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Tony W wrote: Hi Kelly.
I have had a look at your first attempt posted earlier. You must not move the timbers supporting the crossings as you have done, only lengthen / shorten and twist them. Their spacing is predetermined by the crossing angle. This has been stated many times before but people still do it. Trying to timber crossovers correctly can be quite difficult sometimes. It is often easier to adjust the track spacing slightly to get the timbers to align before attempting anything else. I have reset the timbering of the platform crossover and adjusted the track centres to 44.9mm which gives a much better starting point. The ideal spacing will vary according to the crossing angle. I have realigned the approach curve to match. Take a look at which timbers I have shoved as a guide to what to do. I have only lengthened the turnout timbers without moving any. The sleepers on the exit roads have been shoved / moved forward / back to fit into the gaps between the timbers of the adjacent turnouts. I have also altered the turnout timbering of the yard turnout to give you an example of a correct way to do things for your period.

Regards
Tony.
Hi Tony,

Thanks. I thought I might have been going wrong in some aspects, but unless you have a go and make mistakes you don't learn i find.

I'll have a proper look tomorrow and compare what I did with what you have done so I can clearly see what you mean.

Thanks,

Kelly

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5th message | this message only posted: 17 Jul 2017 15:44
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from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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Hi Kelly.
On taking a further quick look I notice that the track spacing between the two curved running lines is at standard spacing. This needs to be widened considerably for the radius used. I will have a closer look later. Better to find out now than later. I know of a layout where sadly this was not discovered until the track had been laid.
They who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Regards
Tony.

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message ref: 21670

 
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6th message | this message only posted: 17 Jul 2017 16:31
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Kelly,

Use tools > spacing-ring • dummy vehicle to check for clearance conflicts:



regards,

Martin.

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7th message | this message only posted: 17 Jul 2017 17:58
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from:
John Palmer
 

 

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When I posted the boxfile forming the basis of Kelly's current design on the Scalefour Society forum, I should probably have issued a stronger warning than I did that clearances should be tested - I plead guilty to having adopted standard spacings, as my principal concern was to arrive at a layout meeting the required operational criteria.

The attached boxfile widens the running line centres to 49mm.  This seems to maintain 6" clearances between dummy vehicles of 4-SUB dimensions, but may still not be aceptable.  I didn't alter the carriage line and shunting neck clearances as these already provided more than the standard six foot.

I've done some timber shoving which may or may not be to your taste.

I've also provided a trap at the approach to the outer crossover, which I think is what you require.  If, instead, you want to trap the 'oil terminal' points on the inside of the layout, the storage box includes a couple of single tongued traps in what I think are appropriate positions.



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Attachment: kelly_shepperton_mod_2017_07_17_1835_50.box (Downloaded 7 times)
 
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8th message | this message only posted: 17 Jul 2017 18:28
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
John Palmer wrote:I didn't alter the carriage line and shunting neck clearances as these already provided more than the standard six foot.Hi John,

The standard for those is 10ft way (60.67mm centres) from a running line.

Or 9ft way minimum, 56.67mm centres, where space constraints make it unavoidable -- for example between bridge parapets.

However, often on a model we have our own space constraints. :)

Martin.

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9th message | this message only posted: 17 Jul 2017 19:45
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from:
John Palmer
 

 

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Yes, I thought I had adopted the 10' spacing both between running line and carriage line and between carriage line and neck, but on re-visiting this I find that I must have adopted a rather smaller value close to nine foot - can't now recall why I did so.  I admit to having been lazy this time and not opening out the spacing of these tracks!

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10th message | this message only posted: 20 Jul 2017 01:43
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from:
d827kelly
Coventry, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks for all your assistance and comments. Thanks also to John for his efforts over on the scalefour forum to get to the starting point at the start of this topic.

Always something to learn, I'm certainly in a position of lots to learn!

Unfortunately I've not been able to take a look at the changes due to being away from home and not having a computer with Templot set up on available at present until I am back home again.

Hopefully I can get the last niggles sorted out so I can make some kind of start with track building soon, but we'll see.
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