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 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
1st message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 05:47
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from:
rynd2it
Stalham, United Kingdom



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Hi Martin,
I have read the various threads on this subject and I have to say that I am mightily confused as to why you have not followed normal "Windows" practice by placing the file name on the top bar of the window. It says "trackpad ....[no mouse actions active]. I get your comments about how the filename is not created until you save it but if I load a box file then it would be a great help if the screen showed that and not have to use two or more mouse clicks find the most recent loaded file.

As others have said, we save various stages of development in separate files and knowing at a glance which one I loaded from would be a significant help.

From a software development viewpoint ( 40+ years) the Windows platform works because developers all use the same protocols and standards. Therefore anyone using a program running on Windows knows what the keys and buttons do and where information is stored. Deviating from this causes confusion.

Having said that - I am very impressed with the scope of Templot and find it very useful indeed. But it would be good if I could see which version of my work I am working on at a glance.

Cheers

David

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2nd message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 08:43
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
rynd2it wrote: I am mightily confused as to why you have not followed normal "Windows" practice by placing the file name on the top bar of the window.

It says "trackpad ....[no mouse actions active].

it would be good if I could see which version of my work I am working on at a glance.
Hi David,

Thanks for your comments.

Templot is not a Windows program and was never intended to be.

I wrote it originally for my own use on other operating systems. 20 years ago I ported it to run under Windows so that others could use it if they wished. But I made no attempt to follow Windows conventions because at the time I had no idea what they were (and wasn't very impressed when I found out). I was simply faced with a brand new unknown computer and a program which I wanted to make work on it. Nothing much has changed in the subsequent years and isn't now likely to. :(

There are others with more Windows software experience who have written similar programs, and clearly if full Windows compliance is important those could be used instead. For example Jeff Geary has created Trax3, and there is S21 ModelGleis from Bernd Steimann and Christian Sender.

However, I don't believe Templot is difficult to use provided you don't start off expecting it to be something which it isn't.

In the early days most folks had much smaller screens, and keeping as much of it as possible clear for track design was important. So for example the mouse action panel can be hidden from view if it is in the way (the Delete key toggles it, or simply click on it), but the action information remains visible in the trackpad top caption bar (title bar) while using a mouse action. I found that extremely useful, and if Bill Gates doesn't like it, too bad.

Templot doesn't follow the Windows Document Model and in Templot there is no concept of an "open" file or document. Whether it should or shouldn't is a separate argument, but it isn't going to change now after all these years, it would simply be too much work. For more about this, see section 2 at:

 http://templot.com/companion/gs_baffled.html

You can see the name of the current project, and the .box file to or from which the most recent template data was loaded, added or saved, on the storage box dialog:



That dialog is available by pressing CTRL+B at any time.

The same applies to .bgs files on the background shapes dialog (CTRL+S).

You can browse all your .box files and see screenshots of each one using the file viewer:



regards,

Martin.  


__________
message ref: 21771

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
3rd message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 08:54
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from:
rynd2it
Stalham, United Kingdom



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Martin Wynne wrote: rynd2it wrote: I am mightily confused as to why you have not followed normal "Windows" practice by placing the file name on the top bar of the window.

It says "trackpad ....[no mouse actions active].

it would be good if I could see which version of my work I am working on at a glance.
Hi David,

Thanks for your comments.

Templot is not a Windows program and was never intended to be.

I wrote it originally for my own use on other operating systems. 20 years ago I ported it to run under Windows so that others could use it if they wished. But I made no attempt to follow Windows conventions because at the time I had no idea what they were (and wasn't very impressed when I found out). I was simply faced with a brand new unknown computer and a program which I wanted to make work on it. Nothing much has changed in the subsequent years and isn't now likely to. :(

There are others with more Windows software experience who have written similar programs, and clearly if full Windows compliance is important those could be used instead. For example Jeff Geary has created Trax3, and there is S21 ModelGleis from Bernd Steimann and Christian Sender.

However, I don't believe Templot is difficult to use provided you don't start off expecting it to be something which it isn't.

In the early days most folks had much smaller screens, and keeping as much of it as possible clear for track design was important. So for example the mouse action panel can be hidden from view if it is in the way (the Delete key toggles it, or simply click on it), but the action information remains visible in the trackpad top caption bar (title bar) while using a mouse action. I found that extremely useful, and if Bill Gates doesn't like it, too bad.

Templot doesn't follow the Windows Document Model and in Templot there is no concept of an "open" file or document. Whether it should or shouldn't is a separate argument, but it isn't going to change now after all these years, it would simply be too much work. For more about this, see section 2 at:

 http://templot.com/companion/gs_baffled.html

You can see the name of the current project, and the .box file to or from which the most recent template data was loaded, added or saved, on the storage box dialog:



That dialog is available by pressing CTRL+B at any time.

The same applies to .bgs files on the background shapes dialog (CTRL+S).

You can browse all your .box files and see screenshots of each one using the file viewer:



regards,

Martin.  

Martin, as ever thank you for a comprehensive reply and I take your point re Windows. It isn't the best (by a long way) and any software written prior to 1995 isn't likely to comply with it. I didn't realise Templot was of that vintage ;-) - it certainly doesn't look it.
I shall continue on, so much the wiser 

David

__________
message ref: 21772

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
4th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 09:34
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
rynd2it wrote:any software written prior to 1995 isn't likely to comply with it. I didn't realise Templot was of that vintage ;-) - it certainly doesn't look it.Hi David,

Some early history of Templot here:

 http://templot.com/martweb/templot_history.htm

That page itself is now history, having been written 18 years ago.

Suddenly I'm feeling old. :)

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 21773

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
5th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 09:48
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from:
rynd2it
Stalham, United Kingdom



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6502 processor - I used to build & sell systems based on that in the 1980's - Ohio Scientific C2-OEM
Happy days

David

Martin Wynne wrote: rynd2it wrote:any software written prior to 1995 isn't likely to comply with it. I didn't realise Templot was of that vintage ;-) - it certainly doesn't look it.Hi David,

Some early history of Templot here:

 http://templot.com/martweb/templot_history.htm

That page itself is now history, having been written 18 years ago.

Suddenly I'm feeling old. :)

regards,

Martin.


__________
message ref: 21774

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 10:18
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin
I haven't read that history for a while, it was interesting re-reading it!  At one point I had a pen plotter borrowed from work and produced some templates on it as I only had a dot matrix printer at the time.  Do you remember my photo of the Canon inkjet with a roll paper holder cobbled up at the back of it?  I've still got some rolls of telex paper in the loft, I think, although that printer has long since died and I can no longer use roll paper.

David - when I started using Templot not far off those 20 years ago, file handling confused me as well, but then it clicked.  The way I think of it is that you're working on a plan, using templates imported from a file.  You can import templates from more than one file, so for a large project you could design sections independently, then add them to the trackpad you're working on.  For instance, if I need a scissors crossing, I'll add my scissors crossing file to the trackpad - so now I've "loaded" two files - which one should be shown as the one you're working on?  Neither, of course!

Cheers

Paul

__________
message ref: 21776

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
7th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 10:24
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from:
rynd2it
Stalham, United Kingdom



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Paul Boyd wrote:   For instance, if I need a scissors crossing, I'll add my scissors crossing file to the trackpad - so now I've "loaded" two files - which one should be shown as the one you're working on?  Neither, of course!

Cheers

Paul
Yes, but you will (or should!) save your work frequently so what will you name it? That should be the name on the blue window bar - or somewhere visible. 
BTW Martin, I just discovered that if I reload previous work then the CNTRL-B does not show a file name, just "restored from previous".

Cheers

David

__________
message ref: 21777

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
8th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 10:33
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Paul Boyd wrote: Do you remember my photo of the Canon inkjet with a roll paper holder cobbled up at the back of it?  I've still got some rolls of telex paper in the loft, I think, although that printer has long since died and I can no longer use roll paper.Hi Paul,

Yes I remember. I had a similar arrangement on the old dot-matrix printer, although in that case the roll holder was mounted on the wall behind the printer. It was necessary to carefully align the printer with the holder to prevent mis-tracking of the paper.

I think I too have an unopened box of telex roll paper somewhere -- don't ask me to find it right now!

Thanks for your explanation of the file handling -- as often others manage to explain things in better words than mine.

David thanks, you have drawn to my attention that the sketchboard doesn't display the most recent .sk9 file name anywhere. I will add it somewhere -- probably in the caption bar. :)

Also the background shapes dialog doesn't show the file name of an imported DXF file. I will see if I can find somewhere for that.

p.s. The Templot web site and this forum is hosted in Ohio.

regards,

Martin.

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message ref: 21778

 
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9th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 10:50
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
rynd2it wrote:Yes, but you will (or should!) save your work frequently so what will you name it?Hi David,

No you shouldn't, at least not for the track templates -- Templot does that for you. Go on -- try pulling the computer plug out in mid-session and then see what happens when you restart Templot next time.

Save your work only when you have a good reason to do so, not because you haven't saved it for 10 minutes.

When you do so, always create a NEW file name. Don't overwrite a previous file -- you might will need it again. Templot suggests a suitable new name.

BTW Martin, I just discovered that if I reload previous work then the CTRL-B does not show a file name, just "restored from previous". That's because the previous work didn't have a file name. Your work is never an open document. It's simply a collection of template data. But it does have a project name -- look in the storage box top caption bar (title bar) after "restore previous".

regards,

Martin.
__________
message ref: 21780

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
10th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 11:01
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from:
rynd2it
Stalham, United Kingdom



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Martin Wynne wrote: rynd2it wrote:Yes, but you will (or should!) save your work frequently so what will you name it?Hi David,

No you shouldn't, at least not for the track templates -- Templot does that for you. Go on -- try pulling the computer plug out in mid-session and then see what happens when you restart Templot next time.

Save your work only when you have a good reason to do so, not because you haven't saved it for 10 minutes.

When you do so, always create a NEW file name. Don't overwrite a previous file -- you might will need it again. Templot suggests a suitable new name.

BTW Martin, I just discovered that if I reload previous work then the CTRL-B does not show a file name, just "restored from previous". That's because the previous work didn't have a file name. Your work is never an open document. It's simply a collection of template data. But it does have a project name -- look in the storage box top caption bar (title bar) after "restore previous".

regards,

Martin.
Martin - after 40+ years it is ingrained in me to save my work personally frequently and not rely on "auto-save" - and I suspect many other users as well. So although your system may be 100% reliable this NOT standard practice under any operating system I ever came across. We'll just have to agree to differ on this issue.
But point taken on file names and project names, I hadn't named the project so it came up as "Midland Central" :)

Cheers

David

__________
message ref: 21781

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
11th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 11:22
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
rynd2it wrote:Martin - after 40+ years it is ingrained in me to save my work personally frequently and not rely on "auto-save" - and I suspect many other users as well. So although your system may be 100% reliable this NOT standard practice under any operating system I ever came across. We'll just have to agree to differ on this issue.Hi David,

It's your computer. :)

But if you save frequently you are either going to be overwriting old files which you might need later, or building a massive collection of new files which you will never look at again.

I've been using Templot on Windows for 20+ years without losing anything yet. I wish I hadn't said that. :)

p.s. if you install AJC Active Backup (highly recommended) and point it at everything in the C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\ folder* you will have a rolling backup of everything you do, including Templot's own rolling backup:

 http://www.ajcsoft.com/active-backup.htm

*or wherever you installed Templot.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 21782

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
12th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2017 12:02
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from:
rynd2it
Stalham, United Kingdom



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Martin Wynne wrote: rynd2it wrote:Martin - after 40+ years it is ingrained in me to save my work personally frequently and not rely on "auto-save" - and I suspect many other users as well. So although your system may be 100% reliable this NOT standard practice under any operating system I ever came across. We'll just have to agree to differ on this issue.Hi David,

It's your computer. :)

But if you save frequently you are either going to be overwriting old files which you might need later, or building a massive collection of new files which you will never look at again.

I've been using Templot on Windows for 20+ years without losing anything yet. I wish I hadn't said that. :)

p.s. if you install AJC Active Backup (highly recommended) and point it at everything in the C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\ folder* you will have a rolling backup of everything you do, including Templot's own rolling backup:

 http://www.ajcsoft.com/active-backup.htm

*or wherever you installed Templot.

regards,

Martin.
I do run a back-up system but I'll look at the rolling back-up as well
Cheers

David

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