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                 Update download installation blocked by Panda
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 09:19
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from:
Jon Timothy
High Peak, United Kingdom

 

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Hi,
I run my laptop with Windows 10, and have successfully used Templot for 2-3 years.
I have recently updated my security to Panda Adaptive Defense 360.

When I tried to update my Templot to the latest version, the following occurred:





 I clicked on the update now button on the Templot start screen.
 The download proceeds normally, and creates an .exe
file called Templot 2 setup.

 User account control allows me to download this
file, and I am able to extract the file normally.

 When I then try to open the
file, I get a setup error message from Panda as follows:

 



" Unable to execute file




C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\templot_2.exe




Create process failed code 5




Access is denied "








In the Panda Adaptive Defense 360  list of latest detected threats,
C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\templot_2.exe is listed as an Execution attempt, and is Blocked.



I have contacted Panda, but they have not come up with a response as yet. It would seem that the Panda software does not recognise Templot as a safe download. Also, there does not seem to be a way for me to alter or override the Panda decision from my computer.
In the end, I temporarily deactivated Panda, completed the download and installation of Templot, and then reactivated Panda again.
This seemed to work, but it shouldn't be necessary. Perhaps Templot can negotiate with Panda to have the program recognised as safe?


Jon Timothy




 





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message ref: 22342

 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 09:45
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Jon
See the many threads on this subject. Really, you’ve answered your own question in saying that Templot worked until you installed Panda. Uninstall it. You don’t need it with Windows 10 as it has a perfectly good security system built in, for free.

Paul

__________
message ref: 22343

 
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3rd message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 12:33
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from:
Jon Timothy
High Peak, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Paul,
Thanks for your reply. I guess you are absolutely right, but I do not have as much confidence in Windows 10 security as you do.
As Templot is now working OK, and Panda also, I will continue as I am for now, until the next update, anyway.
Regards
Jon
__________
message ref: 22348

 
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4th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 14:15
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Jon,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

In the Panda Adaptive Defense 360 list of latest detected threats, C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\templot_2.exe is listed as an Execution attempt, and is Blocked.Did Panda explain why it regards Templot as a "threat"?

That's not a word to describe my work which I'm happy with. It might even be actionable.

Panda could have simply said that it was "unknown" or "unrecognised".

I'm with Paul. On Windows 10 the (free) Windows Defender is much better than the dozens of unnecessary 3rd-party anti-virus programs available, and it doesn't interfere with Templot downloading its own updates.

To mid-day today there have been 548 downloads of Templot version 215d. I have received only a handful of reports of any problems installing it -- and every single one has been caused by 3rd-party anti-virus programs.

regards,

Martin.

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message ref: 22353

 
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5th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 18:24
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from:
Alan Turner
Dudley, United Kingdom



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Trend anti virus blocks the up date as well. However you just download the up date and then install that.

regards

Alan

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message ref: 22362

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 20:28
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from:
Jon Timothy
High Peak, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin,

I fully understand your concern at the use of the term "threat", so I have gone back over the wording on the Panda screens.

When I open Panda Adaptive Defence 360 I get a start screen which contains a section entitled "programs  Blocked"

When I click on those, a new screen opens with a section entitled "Latest detected threats"

Under that section there is a heading "Events" and under that a list of "execution attempts" and these include the templot_2.exe files.



So they do use the term "threat" on these screens.



I hope that clarifies matters. Panda have not given me any explanation of why they consider the .exe file to be a threat.



Regards

Jon 

__________
message ref: 22363

 
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7th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 22:36
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from:
Matt M.
Australia

 

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Hi Jon,

Panda and all anti-virus software consider all unknown .exe files to be
dangerous until proven otherwise. All programs on your computer run
an exactable file. They are just too easy to use to infiltrate a virus into a
computer system.

Traditionally anti-virus software just used to ask if you wanted to run an unknown
program but given the recent failures of this method world wide, anti-virus software
companies now appear to be operating from a default list of .exe files that they approve.
Anything unknown they seem to want to check personally.

This is possibly safer for small to medium businesses with a small overworked IT
department, or, fairly commonly, no on-site IT support at all with multiple users
doing stupid things.
But it is annoying for those of us who have managed to take care of our own
computer systems choices so far.

Matt M.
__________
message ref: 22364

 
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8th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 22:53
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Matt M. wrote: Panda and all anti-virus software consider all unknown .exe files to be
dangerous until proven otherwise.
Hi Matt,

There is a difference between considering something dangerous, and announcing to the world that it is dangerous.

Templot users have given permission for Templot to run. It is therefore perverse to regard files downloaded by Templot as unwanted by the user. Seemingly Windows Defender can grasp this point, so why not other 3rd-party anti-virus programs?

And having decided that they are not sure about a file, why not scan it and see? Simply announcing that because a thing is unrecognised it must be dangerous is a cop-out, and ripping off the user who paid good money for such a program to protect his computer, not to have it prevent him from using it.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22365

 
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9th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 23:03
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from:
Trevor Walling
United Kingdom

 

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Hello,
Perhaps the onus should be on Panda to ensure it is fit for purpose. I certainly consider Templot to be. But then again I don't use Windows* or Panda anyway.
Regards.
Trevor.:D
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message ref: 22366

 
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10th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 23:09
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from:
Trevor Walling
United Kingdom

 

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Hello,
     I couldn't resist this.
Perhaps Panda Adaptive Defense 360 is not adaptive enough or better still too defensive all round? :D
Regards.
Trevor. :)

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message ref: 22367

 
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11th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 23:14
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Trevor Walling wrote: is not adaptive enough or better still too defensive all round? :D
Regards.
Trevor. :)
Sounds like Arsenal on Saturday afternoons :shock:

Rob


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message ref: 22368

 
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12th message | this message only posted: 13 Oct 2017 23:37
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from:
Matt M.
Australia

 

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HI Martin,

As I have mentioned in a previous post regarding AVG's new policy I
don't agree with it. But I do understand it. In the case of AVG there
was a work around. Panda I don't know about having never used it.

AVG appeared to make it okay reasonably fast according to what
I read on the forum. And that would be some form of identification
or scanning. If something is new your anti-virus software will not
be able to scan it to identify what it is from its library of viruses.

Don't take the extreme language they use as a personal attack.
It's that old saying, if you are a hammer (anti-virus software)
everything looks like a nail.

As far as programs interfering with what I can do on the computer
the OS companies do it all the time. Apple has a hit list of programs
that they openly discourage and block. One of the Tif file systems
won't run on native programs as it is considered a security risk.
Java is blocked from interacting with the OS.
Then there is Apple's hate, hate relationship with Adobe and Flash
which they consider a security risk as well. (I almost got caught there
a few years ago except I was running 'Little Snitch' ( another program
that Apple doesn't like) which a fake Adobe Flash update with a trojan
was programmed to see and quite running if Little Snitch was installed).

Not to mention the annoying changes they make to their own OS
which disable things that users were finding useful.
Labeling was one of the losers wham Apple went to Mavericks
a few years ago. A lot of people were not happy about that.
I used that a lot to sort large visual file collections.
But Apple doesn't care.

I personally found two large bugs in the Mavericks OS and
spent two weeks talking with the 2IC of programming in
America. They still haven't sorted it out properly.

With the sandboxing of their OS by Microsoft and Apple
I think this 3rd party software acceptability problem may get worse.

Matt M.
__________
message ref: 22369

 
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13th message | this message only posted: 19 Oct 2017 16:16
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from:
Jon Timothy
High Peak, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin,



I have at last heard back from Panda, and they have reclassified the Templot software as "goodware".



Regards

Jon

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message ref: 22454

 
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14th message | this message only posted: 22 Jul 2019 10:31
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from:
Kenilworth59
United Kingdom



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Hi Martin.

I have been trying to download 223b_setup onto an XP and a Win7 laptop which both have Panda and it gets "neutralised" so it appears Panda have reclassified Templot again.

I thought I'd mention it sooner than later, at the moment I do not have time to work this out although I am fairly pc competent.

Cheers

Paul
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message ref: 27308

 
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15th message | this message only posted: 22 Jul 2019 11:19
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Thanks Paul.

If an anti-virus program interferes with Templot being installed, please switch it off while you do so.

There are anti-virus programs for XP and Windows7 which don't do that, such as Microsoft Security Essentials.

On Windows10 no anti-virus is needed because it includes its own anti-virus, Windows Defender.

See:

 http://templot.com/companion/installation.php

Scroll to the bottom and click: "Problems downloading or installing? click here".

Problems are less likely if you let Templot update itself. :)

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 27310

 
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16th message | this message only posted: 22 Jul 2019 19:59
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from:
Trevor Walling
United Kingdom

 

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Hello,
I think it is a false security using third party programs for obsolete Windows operating systems.As Microsoft products are closed source it remains highly unlikely such companies can really provide the same support simply due to financial considerations alone.If these third party security software providers can hack into the obsolete operating systems why would the baddies be any different. It is one of the reasons operating systems require updatable support in the first place.
I think it is unfair to expect Martin to be responsible for such situations. Surely it should be a case of " Caveat Emptor" for users of such third party security products.
Regards.
Trevor.:)
__________
message ref: 27313

 
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17th message | this message only posted: 22 Jul 2019 21:08
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from:
Kenilworth59
United Kingdom



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Hi Martin and Trevor.

Thanks for the advice and yes, still using XP is an issue all round but I still need it for some work related software - Panda is also company supplied (Endpoint Protection ver 8.0.12)so I can't turn it off! Although I primarily use the Win7 lappy I don't get on with its keyboard layout and go back to the comfort of the XP one. I'll have to bite the bullet and use Templot on the Win7 only but as I mentioned I haven't the time at the moment to sort this. I have actually completed most of my templates.

BTW, I was going to post my efforts to the sharing page; I've been looking at Kenilworth station in 3mm to complement Alan Searle's 3mm junction that I now have guardianship of. I had practiced by looking at Sutton Coldfield and Bedworth (my Greatgrand father was station master at both)having got to grips with the importing of the NLS maps.

PS. Great software Martin. I think the key is practise, practise, practise. I've followed your examples and solutions and even though I have had to take long breaks between sessions I find easier to return to each time.

Cheers
Paul
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message ref: 27315

 
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18th message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 10:49
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from:
Kenilworth59
United Kingdom



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Martin Wynne wrote:
Problems are less likely if you let Templot update itself. :)

Hi Martin.

But of course you were absolutely right!

I was trying to be too clever by going directly to the Templot website and downloading the file ( so as if I was a new user) at which point Panda grabs it and throws it into quaratine.

Having started up Templot and following through the update process I am now up todate on both my laptops. But of course (and rhetorically) did that work  because of the different version of Panda to Jon or the reclassification Jon says they did in 2017? But actually Jon, were you then able to update successfully?

Cheers

Paul

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message ref: 27502

 
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19th message | this message only posted: 24 Aug 2019 09:40
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from:
Kenilworth59
United Kingdom



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Hi Martin.

I too think that the onus should be on Panda to ensure it is fit for purpose but I thought you'd like to know of my latest experience with Panda.

As I said before, I was able to load Templot 2.23b without interference by Panda as per my last post but now with 2.23c (and z) unfortunatley Panda makes that route impossible too. I see that it "snatches" it from C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\internal\upd\.

Meanwhile I tried renaming (to preserve) my current version (b) and substituting in version z as Templot_2.exe but Panda whisked that away too. I was able to get 2.23b working again though.

I guess I need to find an alternative platform with non Panda protection as I don't have Panda admin rights to turn it off. I don't even know if turning it back on after updating Templot will not again neutralise it.

Cheers

Buzz
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message ref: 27641

 
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20th message | this message only posted: 24 Aug 2019 10:48
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Kenilworth59 wrote:I guess I need to find an alternative platform with non Panda protection as I don't have Panda admin rights to turn it off.Hi Paul,

If it's your own computer obviously you have the right to turn it off or uninstall it completely. A good way to get it turned off might be to stop paying the subscriptions. :)
 
If it's not your own computer you shouldn't be using Templot on it, see paragraph 4 at:

 http://templot.com/companion/terms_of_use.php

If it was my computer I would uninstall it pronto, and any other 3rd-party antivirus programs. Microsoft provide an entirely acceptable free antivirus program as part of their Windows operating system, called Windows Defender.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
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21st message | this message only posted: 24 Aug 2019 18:12
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from:
Kenilworth59
United Kingdom



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Hi Martin.

I believe I can be compliant by getting admin rights to the Panda. The laptops are no longer company ones but the Panda licenses are provided by it.

Cheers

Paul
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