click here for a list of all existing Templot documentation
about Templot Club cookie information pre-print options:    

click image to open Templot Club in a new tab
Templot club top logo
looking for Templot? - (free)



 you are not logged in  - Login | Join


receive all messages by email: info


Recent Topics
Front Page  Search  Image Gallery  Gallery Upload  My Account  Members  Help  
make a donation  
please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors Templot Companion - User Guide
            messages archive on Yahoo
page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > help with crossovers on transition curves
Templot web site

                                       help with crossovers on transition curves
     
 Start new topic   Reply blank   Printer friendly 
  Rate this topic  
AuthorMessage
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
1st message | this message only posted: 26 Nov 2017 21:28
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
madscientist
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides


Im having a little issue with " make ordinary crossover " on a transition curve.  Specifically turnout 23 below, This is made the control and the crossover is generated .  What I do find is the crossover turnout so created is not exactly parallel to the exit track , i.e. if I extend the approach track it does not exactly run parallel to the exit of the initial  crossover turnout.  despite the screen shot the tracks are all connected accurately 
the next step is to make the short exit track of the crossover bottom left, straight , doing this shows up that the loop straight line is not aligned with the crossover straight ( K is 0.57 ) 

box file attached 


thanks as always 
just to add, after the crossover is created I can go in to " Geometry - Straight" and this creates a straight track and removes the transition , but then I have to rotate the turnout on Peg 5 position to get the K = 180 ( if you follow me ) , but isnt that creating a little kick at the peg 
__________
message ref: 22881
Attachment: club0gauge.box (Downloaded 6 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
2nd message | this message only posted: 26 Nov 2017 22:00
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Dave,

It is not mathematically possible for two transition curves to be exactly "parallel" within the transition zones.

This means that it is not possible to fit a crossover with both turnouts exactly aligned at their CTRL-5 mid-points (which is what the make crossover tool does).

If you do that on a transition curve, you get a warning that the new transition curve may need adjustment to achieve the desired alignment.

If as in your plan it is important that the new track is parallel/concentric with the original track (beyond the transition zones), do this instead:

1. on the first turnout do geometry > turnout-road exit length > crossover.

2. do tools > make double-track TS. Without a crossover to consider, Templot can do an automatic adjustment on the new transition zone position. Select the automatic option.

3. insert a turnout in the new plain track, and swap it facing-trailing (CTRL+N).

4. do geometry > turnout-road exit length > crossover again.

5. then roam it into the required position with its turnout road aligned with the first turnout (CTRL+F9 mouse action). Zoom in to see it. There will likely be a slight overlap.

6. if necessary you can adjust the length(s) of the turnout road(s) using the CTRL+F12 mouse action.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22883

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
3rd message | this message only posted: 26 Nov 2017 22:21
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
p.s. Dave,

You have barely any running clearance on those curves:



The track spacings need widening a fraction. There is a video showing how to do that with the dummy vehicle, see:

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=5TKjRjhcaeHNM176Xf2xUg2

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22884

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
4th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2017 13:45
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
madscientist
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
thanks martin

I actually followed the sequence you laid out when I was designing this layout , that is I created two complete ovals representing the Up and Down lines with transition curves ( easement to straight ) on the curves

Then I inserted the turnout and then created a " ordinary crossover"

This works fine where the other crossover is also on the transition

However in this case of the " loop " line, the crossover is too a straight track

in this case I find the toe of the turnout does not align correctly and the K is not 180 ( or 0) but 0.07 etc , i.e. off by a bit

By the way is there any way to speed up the tedious process of correcting lengths, I use snap features sometimes as I keep forgetting what all the peg acronyms mean ( a drawing would be useful to print out by the way!)

Thanks re clearances, 80mm was the number given in the Gauge 0 manual, it seems a little tight alright

time to start version 2 ( as I discovered that in practice I cannot have curved crossovers on 6'foot radius main lines without severe radius reductions in the crossovers ( face palm)
__________
message ref: 22888

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
5th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2017 14:01
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
madscientist wrote: in this case I find the toe of the turnout does not align correctly and the K is not 180 ( or 0) but 0.07 etc , i.e. off by a bit Hi Dave,

If you follow the sequence I posted in my previous reply, it won't be off.

By the way is there any way to speed up the tedious process of correcting lengthsSee the extend/shorten to meet functions:

 http://templot.com/companion/link_existing.php

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 22893

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 27 Nov 2017 19:49
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
madscientist
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin I have another issue

On occasion when using extend shorten, I get a "inaccuracy error " message ,i.e. with an option to go ahead anyway , I know its a tiny thing , but I cant see how I am generating these alignment issues in the first place

any pointers ?
PS thanks for the tips on transition crossovers, I created the blank plain tracks first and the crossovers aligned as yu say 


cheers

dave

__________
message ref: 22910

 
This is topic ID = 3137     Page created at 05:36 (local time)  
You can type a quick reply to this topic here.

Click in the box to begin.


But to reply to an individual message, or to include images, attachments and formatted text, use the reply buttons on each message above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start new topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.

             Start new topic 

 click to jump to a different forum:     Back to top of page

Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > help with crossovers on transition curves
about Templot Club

list recently active topics Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Old Templot Companion Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines only

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.

The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.
Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2017  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems