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                                       3 Way Tandem
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 3 Dec 2017 16:57
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Hello,

My first post on here.  I've spent a few full days getting the hang of things in Templot and got around to having a go at a three way tandem turnout.  After many times following the various advice and examples I've finally produced the attached.  It's to be a component on a friend's O gauge layout (hopefully) so is set at 0-MF with a main curve through the centre track of 4752.32mm.

It was the first deviation away from the example in the tutorials I was following so I hope it's worked out about right.

So I'm just asking experts to cast an eye over it with a view to advice where it may be incorrect (or not).

Many thanks.

Cheers...Alan
 

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Attachment: My 1st Tandem.box (Downloaded 14 times)
 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 3 Dec 2017 17:01
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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I think I've cocked up and loaded the wrong box file. I'll try again ...doh ..
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3rd message | this message only posted: 3 Dec 2017 17:08
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Ah. No, my effort is underneath the template ...
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4th message | this message only posted: 3 Dec 2017 18:08
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Alan Kettlewell wrote: Ah. No, my effort is underneath the template ...Hi Alan,

Welcome to Templot Club. :)

Before posting a .box file for others to see, it's a good idea to set a bit of plain track as the control template, and move it away from the area of interest. That way, Templot won't try to mint a fresh control template from the background templates when the file is loaded.

Well done with the tandem. It's great for a first effort. :thumb:

A few pointers:

The left-hand turnout very likely needs to have a curviform V-crossing to match your track plan. This is often the case for contraflexure. (But not if it is part of a crossover. Templot can't make this change automatically for contraflexure because only you know what it's for.)

When you change it, the turnout radius will change, so you will very likely need to adjust the middle V-crossing to match.

Put the timbering back on for that V-crossing, and omit the existing timbers below it. That way you will have the vee nose correctly supported on a timber. At present you have it in fresh air between them.

You used an ordinary turnout to create the middle V-crossing. Nowadays in Templot2 it is easier to use a gaunt turnout, or an irregular half-diamond. That way the turnout radius can be adjusted independently of the crossing angle. (using SHIFT-F12 or F10 respectively)

Sometimes it is easier to get the desired result with a gaunt turnout, sometimes with an irregular half-diamond. It is mainly trial and error to decide which in any given case.

I will make you a bit of video shortly showing how to align the middle V-crossing.

regards,

Martin.

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5th message | this message only posted: 4 Dec 2017 07:58
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin,

Many thanks for the reply and the pointers. I'll do it a few more times as each time I do it a little more of the process sinks into the little grey cell.

The left turnout is part of a crossover but I'll read up on gaunt turnouts as these were not featured in the older tutorials I was following.

I found the process of learning how to construct a tandem brought me on considerably in my understanding of Templot and of trackwork - if a Templot exam was to be set I reckon a 'Random Tandem' exercise would be useful to test for understanding the basics.

Well, onwards and thanks again.

Cheers ... Alan
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6th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2017 12:08
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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As I'm about to embark on a tandem in 00-SF this thread is of great interest
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7th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2017 12:57
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Continuing my training on tandem turnouts:  Not wanting to let software of any sort defeat me but I'm a bit flummoxed about how to tidy up  the unwanted lines through my V crossings.  I've tried splitting off the tandem into its parts and got rid of duplicate templates.  And then I've tried removing just about every track component but I just can't seem to get it right.  I'd appreciate a bit of a steer in the right direction.  

Many thanks.
Alan

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8th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2017 13:04
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Alan,

Here's a bit of video in this reply:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_postx.php?post_id=3967

What amazes me is that it is 8 years since I wrote it. I was sure it was only a month or two ago. :?

It needs updating a bit for Templot2 -- but then, what doesn't? :) If you can't follow anything just ask again.

regards,

Martin.
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9th message | this message only posted: 6 Dec 2017 13:31
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin,

Thanks for the quick reply - I would never have worked that out for myself! Looks like another few days of training then. :? At least if I can't get the hang of this one process then the turnout could still be built as it is, just looks a bit untidy on the print out.

Thanks again
Regards
Alan
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10th message | this message only posted: 7 Dec 2017 13:29
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from:
Judi R
Sutton-on-Sea, United Kingdom



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I followed that video a year or so back when I wanted to design a tandem and found it quite straightforward. Just follow the steps like the yellow brick road ...

Judi R
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11th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 12:49
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Templot Training Continues ... I can't believe how thick I'm being at these tandem turnouts.  I can follow the old tutorial and get that right and I've got a good understanding of how to get rid of the unwanted details in the V crossings.

However, each time I attempt a random tandem I get stuck when it comes to the settings required for the third template that form the 'middle' V section.  I've set to be curviform and a gaunt turnout but I just can't get my head around what hand or what curve I should set it at, nor can I get it to line up accurately despite following all the advised actions eg sizing, gaunt angle.  

I've attached my attempt.  It is a straight curved left and a straight curved right tandem, being B8 and a B6 - so should not be difficult.  I'd appreciate advice about what's wrong with it and why I can't get the middle template to line up correctly.

Many thanks
Alan
 


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Attachment: Random Tandem.box (Downloaded 10 times)
 
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12th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 13:21
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Alan Kettlewell wrote:However, each time I attempt a random tandem I get stuck when it comes to the settings required for the third template that form the 'middle' V section.  I've set to be curviform and a gaunt turnout but I just can't get my head around what hand or what curve I should set it at, nor can I get it to line up accurately despite following all the advised actions eg sizing, gaunt angle.Hi Alan,

I was intending to make you a bit of video showing that, but I can't keep up with you. :)

I have made a few changes for the next program update that are relevant to this topic, so I don't want to make a new video until those are working. Otherwise the menus in the video will be out of date within days of posting it.

Briefly:

1. choose the base turnout having the easier turnout radius.

2. for the middle crossing, use the obtain function to match that radius, and set the hand accordingly.

3. peg it onto that turnout at the switch heel peg position.

4. orbit/snake/slide it forwards until its FP marker coincides with the rail intersection.

5. put the peg on CTRL-4 (setting it once only, or an odd number of times).

6. zoom in and use F9 to adjust the crossing angle to match the underlying rails.

Martin.  

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13th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 13:43
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from:
John Palmer
 

 

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Alan, I think that a big part of your problem lies in the fact that your 'middle' vee does not have its fine point correctly positioned at the intersection of the two diverging roads.   Make one of the templates for those diverging roads the control and slide its peg to that intersection point.  Position the notch under that peg (e.g. with the '/' key).  Now make the 'middle' vee the control template.  Its peg is currently positioned on the fine point (otherwise move the peg to the fine point with Ctrl+4). Now shift the vee onto the notch (e.g. with the '*' key).  A combination of some rotation with F8 and curving with F6 should line the vee up rather better, then resize it with F9.   As it happens, I get a good fit with a crossing angle of 1 : 5, as shown:
Just noticed that Martin has beaten me to it!

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14th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 14:05
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Hello Martin & John,

Many thanks for your replies.  Finally I think I've got there thanks to your help.
Martin, apologies for the pressure - dog with a bone scenario.. :D
 
Cheers ... Alan

 

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15th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 14:13
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
John Palmer wrote:Just noticed that Martin has beaten me to it!With a different method. :)

There are always several ways of doing things in Templot. Using obtain to match the radius is generally quicker than using F6 on the crossing after it is in position, although a little less precise if the radius is very sharp. You can always do both, of course.

The tricky part is deciding whether to use a gaunt turnout or an irregular half-diamond. If the gaunt offset turns out be near zero, that is the one to use, because the K-crossing angle needed would be very high. Sometimes the only way is trial and error on both.

If the length of the inserted crossing can be kept to the bare minimum, adjusting the radius is not too critical, and an ordinary turnout may be quite usable. I'm currently working on that to isolate the crossing without losing the check rails or wing rail ends:



To do that at present means the extra faff of splitting the check rails and vee nose onto separate partial templates.

Will be in the next program update shortly.

regards,

Martin.  

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16th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 14:24
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks again Martin. One further question: How do you 'make the template current' if it won't be selected by clicking on it with the mouse? ie when the surrounding templates select instead.
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17th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 14:28
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Alan Kettlewell wrote: Thanks again Martin. One further question: How do you 'make the template current' if it won't be selected by clicking on it with the mouse? ie when the surrounding templates select instead.Hi Alan,

Hold down the SHIFT key or put the CAPS LOCK on.

Then click on its name label.

If two name labels are completely overlapping, click on the first one and bat its label out of the way.

p.s. Even if you have turned the name labels off, holding the SHIFT key or having the CAPS LOCK on will cause a label to reappear if the mouse runs over its position. So providing you know roughly where the label is, you can wave the mouse about until you find it. Perhaps it's easier just to turn them back on for a moment (END key). :)

p.p.s. Remember to put the CAPS LOCK back off before typing any passwords.

regards,

Martin.

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18th message | this message only posted: 8 Dec 2017 14:37
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from:
Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Great - thank you ..
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19th message | this message only posted: 10 Dec 2017 20:09
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Alan,

See:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3152&forum_id=1

cheers,

Martin.

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