Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 316Problems Calibrating Printer?
author remove search highlighting
 
posted: 15 Jan 2008 23:33

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I've just being trying to calibrate my printer for the first time.(Its an Epson CX3200).

 

All has gone very well and according to the instructions until I get to producing the proof-sheet.

I have measured the 'picture frame' and entered those measurements. Then on printing a proof-sheet. I get the 'Warning Message' that the paper size needs resetting to A4 portrait before I can print out.  WHen I check this in 'printer set-up' the printer is already 'correctly' set up for A4 portrait.

When I go back to printing the proofsheet, Templot still thinks its wrong, even though it is right in printer set-up. Of course if I select 'Try print it anyway' the result is wrong.


The printer is still uncalibrated. What do I try next. I am wasting alot of paper & ink and getting nowhere:(!- I am sure it must be a simple mistake?

posted: 16 Jan 2008 00:00

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
russ wrote:
When I go back to printing the proofsheet, Templot still thinks its wrong, even though it is right in printer set-up. Of course if I select 'Try print it anyway' the result is wrong.

Hi Russ,

Please can you scan the proof sheet and post it as an attachment here? I'm a bit puzzled. :?

You didn't mix up measuring the inner or outer sizes of the picture frame, by any chance?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2008 00:22

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides

Martin Wynne wrote:
russ wrote:
When I go back to printing the proofsheet, Templot still thinks its wrong, even though it is right in printer set-up. Of course if I select 'Try print it anyway' the result is wrong.

Hi Russ,

Please can you scan the proof sheet and post it as an attachment here? I'm a bit puzzled. :?

You didn't mix up measuring the inner or outer sizes of the picture frame, by any chance?

regards,

Martin.
Yeah so am I!:?- scanning it now. I have tried first using the outer measurements. The next attempt I tried with the inner ones, but obviously only one at a time!:D 
Attachment: attach_213_316_templot_proof_sheet.jpg 240

posted: 16 Jan 2008 03:27

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Russ,

Thanks for uploading the proof sheet. It doesn't tell us much, does it? :(

Please can you do the same with the calibration sheet? Or tell me what it says along the top line beginning "printer info:"

What sizes did the frame outlines actually measure?

If you measure the inner frame it should be somewhere near 90mm wide and near 120mm high.

If you measure the outer frame it should be somewhere near 180mm wide and near 240mm high.

Are your sizes anywhere near those?

When entering the figures you must enter them in that order, the smaller figure first, and they must be in mm.

The proof sheet error message appears if the calibrated full page width is less than 177mm, or the calibrated full page height is less than 257mm, or the height is less than the width.

The normal figures for A4 would be at least 200mm wide by 280mm high, so it would be surprising if an Epson printer is that far out. Or any printer for that matter.

When you have been printing templates with the printer uncalibrated, have they been reasonably accurate? The grid lines by default should measure 50mm square. Are they anywhere near that?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2008 03:55

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides

Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Russ,

Thanks for uploading the proof sheet. It doesn't tell us much, does it? :(

Please can you do the same with the calibration sheet? Or tell me what it says along the top line beginning "printer info:"

What sizes did the frame outlines actually measure?

If you measure the inner frame it should be somewhere near 90mm wide and near 120mm high.

If you measure the outer frame it should be somewhere near 180mm wide and near 240mm high.

Are your sizes anywhere near those?

When entering the figures you must enter them in that order, the smaller figure first, and they must be in mm.

The proof sheet error message appears if the calibrated full page width is less than 177mm, or the calibrated full page height is less than 257mm, or the height is less than the width.

The normal figures for A4 would be at least 200mm wide by 280mm high, so it would be surprising if an Epson printer is that far out. Or any printer for that matter.

When you have been printing templates with the printer uncalibrated, have they been reasonably accurate? The grid lines by default should measure 50mm square. Are they anywhere near that?

regards,

Martin.
Yep scanning now!

posted: 16 Jan 2008 04:13

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
russ wrote:

Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Russ,

Thanks for uploading the proof sheet. It doesn't tell us much, does it? :(

Please can you do the same with the calibration sheet? Or tell me what it says along the top line beginning "printer info:"

What sizes did the frame outlines actually measure?

If you measure the inner frame it should be somewhere near 90mm wide and near 120mm high.

If you measure the outer frame it should be somewhere near 180mm wide and near 240mm high.

Are your sizes anywhere near those?

When entering the figures you must enter them in that order, the smaller figure first, and they must be in mm.

The proof sheet error message appears if the calibrated full page width is less than 177mm, or the calibrated full page height is less than 257mm, or the height is less than the width.

The normal figures for A4 would be at least 200mm wide by 280mm high, so it would be surprising if an Epson printer is that far out. Or any printer for that matter.

When you have been printing templates with the printer uncalibrated, have they been reasonably accurate? The grid lines by default should measure 50mm square. Are they anywhere near that?

regards,

Martin.
Yep scanning now!


Here we go :

inner frame: 9.0cm(W) x 12.0cm (H)

outer frame: 18.2cm (W) x 24.0cm (H)


 

I also got the 'current printer calibration settings(though it means nothing to me?):

The printer is currently calibrated as follows:

the head-factor is 10.00%

the roller-factor is 10.00%

This is recorded in Templot as an inkjet or laser printer.

 

I've only printed trackplans so far- should I try a template uncalibrated and check it with my track gauges?

Attachment: attach_215_316_templot_calibration.jpg 220

posted: 16 Jan 2008 04:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Russ,

Arghh! :(

You have entered the dimensions in centimetres instead of millimetres.

Your figures for the outer frame should be 182 mm  and 240 mm.

If you enter those numbers all will be well. See attached image.

I never use centimetres myself for anything at all, so it never occurred to me that anyone else would. :( I will put an extra note in the program about the importance of using millimetres. Sorry it wasn't clear.

regards,

Martin.
Attachment: attach_216_316_cal_mm.png 210

posted: 16 Jan 2008 04:45

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides

Martin Wynne wrote:
Hi Russ,

Arghh! :(

You have entered the dimensions in centimetres instead of millimetres.

Your figures for the outer frame should be 182 mm  and 240 mm.

If you enter those numbers all will be well. See attached image.

I never use centimetres myself for anything at all, so it never occurred to me that anyone else would. :( I will put an extra note in the program about the importance of using millimetres. Sorry it wasn't clear.

regards,

Martin.
H'mm I just read it off the ruler!:D No worries will try again!

posted: 16 Jan 2008 05:11

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Yep, all sorted now, thanks for the help. :D

 

The mm thing, probably only engineers used mm when everyone still used feet inches etc.

Nowadays most people in their 30's or under would be taught in cm's and Km's too? -

Just a thought?

posted: 16 Jan 2008 05:51

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
russ wrote:
Yep, all sorted now, thanks for the help. :D
Hi Russ,

Glad it worked out. I knew it had to be something simple. :)

The mm thing, probably only engineers used mm when everyone still used feet inches etc. Nowadays most people in their 30's or under would be taught in cm's and Km's too?
It's certainly set me thinking.

The whole of Templot is based on millimetres, and the reason for that seemed obvious at the time -- we model in scales of  2mm/ft, 3mm/ft, 4mm/ft, 7mm/ft. It would be crazy to define our scales in such bizarre mixed units -- and then not actually use the said units for modelmaking!

I'm not sure what to do about it for Templot. I can think equally well in millimetres and metres or feet and inches, but when I hear the weather forecast for 7 centimetres of snow I'm just lost. I have a feeling I'm not the only one. But presumably you would visualise immediately how much that is?

(And for everyone else, it's about 2.3/4". :) )

regards,

Martin.

posted: 16 Jan 2008 12:47

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
This whole metric/imperial thing is a little odd in that there seems to be no set point about where things changed over.  I'm just about 42, but still prefer to think in terms of feet, inches, miles and fahrenheit - I was taught that, and I still vaguely remember the confusion when we suddenly had to be taught metric instead.  When I'm model making, I usually work in mm, but I wish Templot had a global "inches" setting rather than defaulting to mm (I do know about the 'i' prefix).  Yet guys at work older than me seem to think in metric,including this cm atrocity that seems to have been foisted on people.  When people quote km at me, I'm totally lost, but for some reason cyclists, including the oldies, seem to work in km.  As far as weights go, I just cannot visualise what 100gm of something is.

It's a strange old world, but please don't put cm into Templot!  They have no use for anything and are a total abomination:)

posted: 16 Jan 2008 16:17

from:

Peter Salathiel
 
Bangkok - Thailand

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Paul Boyd wrote:
It's a strange old world, but please don't put cm into Templot!  They have no use for anything and are a total abomination:)

Totally agree with you Paul. I had huge problems moving from imperial to metric UNTIL I started using millimetres (in Templot actually) and forgot all about centimetres. From then on, things becameme uch, much easier and now I can think in both. Centimetres confuse everything!

Regards

Peter

posted: 17 Jan 2008 00:19

from:

Simon Dunkley
 
Oakham - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Peter Salathiel wrote:

Paul Boyd wrote:
It's a strange old world, but please don't put cm into Templot!  They have no use for anything and are a total abomination:)

Totally agree with you Paul. I had huge problems moving from imperial to metric UNTIL I started using millimetres (in Templot actually) and forgot all about centimetres. From then on, things becameme uch, much easier and now I can think in both. Centimetres confuse everything!

Regards

Peter
 
But the UK is not metric. Apart from the pint and the mile, the UK uses weights and measures under the SI (systeme international). This means there are base units such as the metre, and then to avoid lots of zeros, we move away from that 3 decimal places at a time, i.e. upwards to the kilometre, or downwards to the millimetre. The centimetre was just a confusing introduction in primary schools (I know, as I suffered from the partially aborted changeover in the 70s), predicated on trying to teach young children how to measure before they could count beyond ten - also millimetres are rather small to a 5 year old!
As it happens, I understand what 30 miles is, and have to convert 50km to that to understand it. A metre and a yard are not much different. I can happily use metric or imperial when modelling, but usually use the latter as the prototype until recently was also imperial (working in 1:64 and latterly 1:32 this is no hardship!) and using millimetres to a foot is a touch silly when you think about it - 7mm:12" even sillier. And the ratio for the models makes little sense, either...
I have no understanding of how big an acre or a hectare is, and also have trouble with weights because I was taught in metric, but never encountered it outside of school.
Historical aside: The UK had intended to metricate about 100 years ago, but the Germans had gone this way and the growing hostility to Germany during the Edwardian period put the kybosh on it. Also, the florin (two-bob bit) was introduced circa 1870 as it was 1 tenth of a pound, and was intended as a precursor to decimalisation - we only waited 100 years for that!
Another example of sentimentality overriding some sensible thinking, but maybe that's just a touch too OT...?

Regards,

Simon
ps - When you think about it, model railways is silly, so who cares, really?


posted: 17 Jan 2008 00:59

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
I'm not sure what to do about it for Templot. I can think equally well in millimetres and metres or feet and inches, but when I hear the weather forecast for 7 centimetres of snow I'm just lost. I have a feeling I'm not the only one. But presumably you would visualise immediately how much that is?

To be honest as far as Templot's concerned  a simple reminder to 'do the measurements in mm' -would be enough for this dozy b*gger!:D
 
The whole things an anochronism really isnt it, I mean our road signs are still in miles!
 
Anyway I know have my first templates- looking forward to building them!:cool:

posted: 17 Jan 2008 01:54

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi All
Paul Boyd wrote:
It's a strange old world, but please don't put cm into Templot!  They have no use for anything and are a total abomination:)
Totally agree with you Paul. I had huge problems moving from imperial to metric UNTIL I started using millimetres (in Templot actually) and forgot all about centimetres. From then on, things becameme uch, much easier and now I can think in both. Centimetres confuse everything!

Regards

Peter
with you chaps I learnt miles, chains, feet & inches, tons ,cwts quarters,pounds &ounces,£. s. d, gallons & pints etc then £ & p at school. Then during my appreticeship as a boilermakerI had to learn metres & millimetres no centimetres there and water and fuel were always measured in tons. I am now ambetexterous there and can use either or ocassinally both. Then just to muddy the waters a little more theres always the universal smidgin.
 

Cheers Phil

posted: 17 Jan 2008 03:08

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Phil O wrote:
Hi Allwith you chaps I learnt miles, chains, feet & inches, tons ,cwts quarters,pounds &ounces,£. s. d, gallons & pints etc then £ & p at school. Then during my appreticeship as a boilermakerI had to learn metres & millimetres no centimetres there and water and fuel were always measured in tons. I am now ambetexterous there and can use either or ocassinally both. Then just to muddy the waters a little more theres always the universal smidgin.
Phil

At senior school, for three years,  I took Physics and Chemistry using centimetre/gram units,  and Applied Mechanics using foot/lb units.  I've never had any problems working with both :)

As a side issue,  doesn't it scare you to think of all the different number bases we worked in when doing calculations in the old Imperial measures.  The worst was probably weight with Base 20, Base 4, Base 8, Base 16, Base 14,  or maybe it was distance with Base 12, Base 3, Base 22, Base 10 and Base 8.  In Scotland we were doing all this at age 9 in Primary school :)

Jim.

posted: 17 Jan 2008 03:25

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Paul Boyd wrote:
I wish Templot had a global "inches" setting rather than defaulting to mm (I do know about the 'i' prefix).
Hi Paul,

The problem there is that Templot does already use inches. When dimensions are in inches, Templot is referring to the prototype sizes -- timber spacings for example. When dimensions are in mm, Templot is referring to model sizes -- flangeway gaps, for example. That's a useful distinction which it would be a shame to lose.

Like all good rules, there has to be an exception -- the model grid can be set in feet and inches.

But I think using inches throughout would cause a lot of confusion in the dialogs. The i prefix seems a reasonable compromise arrangement for those times when you want to specify a model size in inches -- often preferred for radius dimensions.

But the centimetre problem is more difficult. Russ measured naturally in centimetres and assumed that was what was wanted. That suggests that others would do the same, and that I must do something about it. At the very least something on the calibration sheet to draw attention to the need for millimetre measurements.

For anyone familiar with inches, centimetres are just plain awful. No surprise that we are all agreed there! But maybe if you have never known inches, they aren't so bad? Millimetres are a bit too small for everyday objects, and metres too large.

Humans find fractions very friendly, I wonder why the metric system doesn't make more of them? 1/32nd of a metre is about 1.1/4", a useful everyday unit size. We could call it a "thirtymo". :)

4 thirtymo is about 5 inches. 8 thirtymo is about 10 inches. Very handy. Shall I include it as a grid option? :D

regards,

Martin.

posted: 17 Jan 2008 04:07

from:

russ
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
At the very least something on the calibration sheet to draw attention to the need for millimetre measurements

Yeah, now it has been explained properly a simple thing would be just to say 'Please enter all metric measurements in millimetres and not any other unit' I'm pretty sure that would cover it?

- Sorry for being the 'cause' of this !:D

posted: 17 Jan 2008 06:22

from:

John Lewis
 
Croydon - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
As far as weights go, I just cannot visualise what 100gm of something is.
Just under 3.1/2 ounces, I think.

I've got a calculator!  :)

Centimetres confuse everything!
It's all those hundreds of little feet. :)

As a side issue, doesn't it scare you to think of all the different number bases we worked in when doing calculations in the old Imperial measures. The worst was probably weight with Base 20, Base 4, Base 8, Base 16, Base 14, or maybe it was distance with Base 12, Base 3, Base 22, Base 10 and Base 8. In Scotland we were doing all this at age 9 in Primary school :)
But we did not think of them as "Base" anything! That is probably the secret of coping. :)

John

posted: 17 Jan 2008 23:39

from:

Paul Boyd
 
Loughborough - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi Martin
The problem there is that Templot does already use inches. When dimensions are in inches, Templot is referring to the prototype sizes -- timber spacings for example. When dimensions are in mm, Templot is referring to model sizes -- flangeway gaps, for example. That's a useful distinction which it would be a shame to lose.
Yes - although I've been using Templot for years, I hadn't really appreciated the difference!  It would still be nice to have it as an option though.  For instance, if I'm extending the approach length of a turnout for a headshunt, the info box goes up in mm, and I have to keep reaching for my calculator to work out what 12" or whatever is in mm :(  It would be nice to see the info box going up in, say, 1/64" increments (fractional, not decimal!!).  What I really need to do though is to remember the Ctrl-C function in Templot :D  It doesn't seem to have a perch to centifurlong conversion though...


posted: 18 Jan 2008 01:01

from:

Phil O
 
Plymouth - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Hi All
Paul Boyd wrote:
Hi Martin
The problem there is that Templot does already use inches. When dimensions are in inches, Templot is referring to the prototype sizes -- timber spacings for example. When dimensions are in mm, Templot is referring to model sizes -- flangeway gaps, for example. That's a useful distinction which it would be a shame to lose.
Yes - although I've been using Templot for years, I hadn't really appreciated the difference!  It would still be nice to have it as an option though.  For instance, if I'm extending the approach length of a turnout for a headshunt, the info box goes up in mm, and I have to keep reaching for my calculator to work out what 12" or whatever is in mm :(  It would be nice to see the info box going up in, say, 1/64" increments (fractional, not decimal!!).  What I really need to do though is to remember the Ctrl-C function in Templot :D  It doesn't seem to have a perch to centifurlong conversion though...


This is all very well but the real stuff is still measured in miles and chains. Just go and have a look at your nearest bridge and it will give the bridge number and a distance from datum (ie Paddington, Euston etc) all in miles and chains. All radii are also quoted in chains.

 

Cheers Phil


posted: 18 Jan 2008 06:43

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Paul Boyd wrote:
if I'm extending the approach length of a turnout for a headshunt, the info box goes up in mm, and I have to keep reaching for my calculator to work out what 12" or whatever is in mm :(
Hi Paul,

If you know the exact approach length you want, why not just enter it directly? That's either geometry > template lengths (in mm) ... menu item, or simply click on the dimension in the mouse action panel. i12 and a few dabs on ENTER and it's done.

I've made a bit of Jing video showing that. It works the same way in most mouse actions: http://screencast.com/t/TQTxtcQcjJ1

regards,

Martin.

posted: 5 Feb 2009 21:14

from:

Don
 
 

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
A note from the colonies

Had I known that Templot didn't work in Imperial measurements I never would have bought it. Model railroading here in Canada, although the country is officially metric, is very much in the shadow of the USA and the NMRA, I could model the rest of my life and never be confronted by a metric reference.

On the mm/cm thing, centimeters are very commonly used here, ie rainfall, millimeters are sure to confuse most people because they can't visual one.

Please let me know when Templot learns to speak Imperial.

posted: 5 Feb 2009 21:38

from:

Martin Lloyd
 
Middlesbrough - United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
What I (at 72 yrs old) find rather silly is the metrication of the building materials industry such that the metric standard for a sheet of plywood(for example) is 2240mm x 1220mm or 8ft x 4ft in old money!

posted: 5 Feb 2009 21:46

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

click the date to link to this post
click member name to view archived images
view images in gallery view images as slides
Don wrote:
A note from the colonies

Had I known that Templot didn't work in Imperial measurements I never would have bought it. Model railroading here in Canada, although the country is officially metric, is very much in the shadow of the USA and the NMRA, I could model the rest of my life and never be confronted by a metric reference.

On the mm/cm thing, centimeters are very commonly used here, ie rainfall, millimeters are sure to confuse most people because they can't visual one.

Please let me know when Templot learns to speak Imperial.
Don,

I can work in both,  but I think easier in Imperial. :)   So I work in what I call Templot feet,  which is 300mm = one Imperial foot.  This means I can use the default metric grid fairly easily,  and I've always got a bit of leeway when I fit the plan onto my Imperial sized baseboard.

But you can change the grid in the Pad/pad grid options (in 0.91c) and I think Martin has got a few other Imperial/metric converters hidden in the software which I can never remember since I don't need to use them. :D   I'm sure he will be along shortly to list them all. :D

Jim.



Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > Problems Calibrating Printer?
about Templot Club

Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.
The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason. Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2020  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems