click here for a list of all existing Templot documentation
Important Privacy Information cookie information pre-print options:    

click image to open Templot Club in a new tab
Templot club top logo
looking for Templot? - (free)



 you are not logged in  - Login | Join


receive all messages by email: info


Recent Topics
Front Page  Search  Image Gallery  Gallery Upload  My Account  Members  Open Source  TemplotMEC  Help  
make a donation  
please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors Templot Companion - User Guide
            messages archive on Yahoo
page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > I found a flaw > Issues with single sided tandem
Templot web site

                                       Issues with single sided tandem
     
 Start new topic   Reply blank   Printer friendly 
  Rate this topic  
AuthorMessage
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
1st message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 00:19
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Martin,

Upgraded to the latest version today and have been having fun(testing ?) with the single sided tandem function before bedtime. Attached to this post is the box file and the next two posts contain the two screenshots at the time the issue occurred. I do hope I haven't done anything wrong this time :( The starting template was a 1:12 curviform turnout in a length of straight track and I just let Templot proceed through the process without any changes when asking for the tandem.

I did have an issue earlier when a stock rail in the 2nd v-crossing was not lined up but the issue above occured when I was trying to re-produce it. I will let you know.

Rob


__________
message ref: 23367
Attachment: Tandem crash.box (Downloaded 46 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
2nd message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 00:21
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
1st screenshot.

Rob


__________
message ref: 23368
Attachment: Tandem crash 1.jpg (Downloaded 55 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
3rd message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 00:22
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
2nd screenshot.

Rob


__________
message ref: 23369
Attachment: Tandem crash 2.jpg (Downloaded 54 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
4th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 00:31
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Martin,

Here is a box file showing the rail not aligned in the 2nd v-crossing.

Good night.

Regards
Rob


__________
message ref: 23370
Attachment: Tandem rail issue.box (Downloaded 47 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
5th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 01:48
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Rob,

The reason for the problem is that you started with a daft unusual size of turnout, a B-12. :?

Were you simply stress-testing the tandem function, or were you intending to use such a turnout in your track plan?

I didn't think to test for such an unusual size in the code, although I did say on the web page "The starting turnout can be any reasonable size".

A B-12 is not reasonable or prototypical. Having such a short switch with a long regular-type V-crossing has caused a very long crossing entry straight, which has interfered with the curve calculations.

The switch size for a 1:12 V-crossing would normally be a D or E. If you use F5 to set the turnout size, these switch sizes would be set automatically.

A C-12 or even C-14 is listed for some companies, but strike me as unlikely sizes to find on the ground. None list a B-12.

On the other hand, if you change the B-12 to a generic or curviform V-crossing, you hit a different problem -- there is no possible irregular half-diamond which can fit for the the 3rd V-crossing, hence the exception. For such a tandem it would be necessary to use a gaunt turnout instead for the 3rd crossing (as used in the double-sided tandems).

Thanks for reporting this. I will put additional checks on the starting size in the next update, and do some more testing. If it seems that the no-fit exception will occur for reasonable turnout sizes, I will add a fresh block of code to switch to a gaunt turnout for the 3rd V-crossing. But a gaunt turnout won't fit for the shorter single-sided tandems, which is why they are using an irregular half-diamond.

As I mentioned before I started all this, tandems are not simple. :(

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 23371

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 13:35
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin,

No, I wasn't trying the find tandems that would break the system. The daft unusual starting turnout on this one was just because I had a track plan with one in it and wanted to play around with what would suit. My fault there for not realising that the switch length would have such an impact on the tandem, I was purely thinking of the crossing angle as being the dominant factor.

Out of the many tandems I tried last night most were brilliant, just combine or adjust the checkrails and shove timbers and good to go. Another great addition to Templot.

I noticed you had a check in place if the turnout was a very short so defining what is 'sensible' at the other end of the scale would be good as you suggest. I am in agreement with your reply concerning the exit road turnout length 'issue' raised by John, it would be good if that could be reset with the other derived settings.

You may not believe this but I don't think I have ever used F5 :(. I use the menu settings for crossing angle and switch type which is why my track plans are probably littered with daft crossing/switch sizes. Another lesson learned.........the single sided tandem looks fine when starting with a D-12 although to be honest I could go back to the original track plan and use a turnout of the same overall length as my B-12 such as a C-10. Visually much better.

Thanks for looking at this and jogging some sense into me.

Rob


__________
message ref: 23374

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
7th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 14:44
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Rob Manchester wrote:You may not believe this but I don't think I have ever used F5 :(.Hi Rob,

Well I believe it because you said it. But I do find it very surprising, not least because the F5 size function is on the beginner buttons.

It does illustrate why I'm finding it so difficult to write the docs for Templot. In the early days of Templot I felt that I had a good grasp of where users were coming from and what assumptions I could make about their knowledge of trackwork and model track construction.

Of course, at that time there were about 10 users and I reckoned at most there would only ever be about 50 or 100. Whereas in the first 24 hours there have been 125 downloads of 218b, and if it stays current for a few months it will rack up around 3000.

Which means that nowadays I don't seem to have a clue about the users. I feel that almost anything I mention has to be accompanied by a lengthy explanation going right back to the basics.

The reason Templot lets you create such a turnout as a B-12 is that there might occasionally be a reason for using one, if you know what you are doing.

For example, if you are creating a scissors crossover, it is helpful to use a turnout which has a long entry straight to the crossing, like this:



That causes the entire middle diamond-crossing to be on the straight sections, and therefore it can be a regular diamond with all crossings the same size.

There might even be cases where such a turnout is used within a tandem. For example using a much shorter switch than usual might be necessary to keep the switch off an underline bridge or culvert, or away from a level crossing.

But unfortunately as they stand the Templot make tandem functions can't cope with such conditions, double-sided or single-sided. Such a tandem turnout would need to be created manually.

I'm going to do some more testing to establish the limits of the existing functions, and either extend them to a wider range of starting conditions, or put in more checks and restrictions for unusual situations.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 23375

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
8th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 18:40
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin,

I appreciate your frustration with the potential user-base of Templot. It must be very difficult to pitch the help files, demos and notes at a level that suits everybody. It would be interesting to know ( for you ) how many of the downloaders of Templot become regular users and where their knowledge level is regarding prototype trackwork.

Several more tandems, both single and double sided, came out very nicely. No more issues.

Rob


__________
message ref: 23377

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
9th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 19:34
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Rob Manchester wrote:downloaders of Templot become regular users and where their knowledge level is regarding prototype trackwork.Hi Rob,

Right on cue to answer your question, an intending Templot user has just asked on RMweb:

"Can anyone suggest for a main line (my layout will either be WCML or ECML 1980s based) what would be the usual type of point work is it like B5 or C6 etc"

I honestly don't know where to begin in answering a question like that. It's the title of a book.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 23379

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
10th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 21:17
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin,

B5 turnouts on the WCML will certainly keep the passengers customers awake. You wouldn't want to be getting a drink from the bar when the train diverged over those. Can you still stand at a bar on a Pendolino and have a barman in a white jacket serve you a whisky ?

What does Richie do though ? He isn't likely to find the information with Google and I haven't seen many books giving details of the turnout specs on the intended modelling subject. He would have found lots of info on the benefits of 4-SF on Templot or RM forums.

A correspondent in this months EM journal reckons we will have ready to lay P4 turnouts within 25 years. Must be Peco if it's going to take that long :D

Rob


__________
message ref: 23383

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
11th message | this message only posted: 16 Jan 2018 21:57
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Barrowman
USA

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Rob Manchester wrote:
A correspondent in this months EM journal reckons we will have ready to lay P4 turnouts within 25 years. Must be Peco if it's going to take that long :D
Hi Rob,

It might be a lot sooner than that if I've got anything to do with it :D

They won't exactly be RTL, but they might be pretty darn close. Those chairs I'm mucking around with are equally applicable to P4, EM, 00 and 4-SF. I hope to get to the point where I can import a turnout template from Templot and produce a 3D model for printing in a couple of hours.

I'm actually toying with the idea of putting the chair models and the assembly techniques into the public domain so anyone can print their own turnouts. The downside is I might find myself having to answer questions all day as Martin does :)

The upside is it might be a bit disruptive.

Cheers!
Andy

__________
message ref: 23384

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
12th message | this message only posted: 17 Jan 2018 00:17
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Andy,

Quite odd. I was actually thinking of you when I posted the bit about ready to lay P4 as I just read the latest post from your tie-in with Shapeways.

Good luck with your project, shows what can be done with the right mind set. If Peco beat you to it I hope they remembered to change the geometry this time :(

Snow, hail and wind here. Gather you have had snow round your parts again near you again.

Rob


__________
message ref: 23386

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
13th message | this message only posted: 17 Jan 2018 00:49
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Andrew Barrowman
USA

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Rob,

Not too bad here in the Pacific Northwet at the moment. 3C outside and the snow from last week is melting.

But I better not disrupt this thread any more than I have already :)

Andy
__________
message ref: 23387

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
14th message | this message only posted: 17 Jan 2018 22:36
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote: Rob Manchester wrote:downloaders of Templot become regular users and where their knowledge level is regarding prototype trackwork.Hi Rob,

Right on cue to answer your question, an intending Templot user has just asked on RMweb:

"Can anyone suggest for a main line (my layout will either be WCML or ECML 1980s based) what would be the usual type of point work is it like B5 or C6 etc"

I honestly don't know where to begin in answering a question like that. It's the title of a book.

cheers,

Martin.
Hi Martin.
Basic generally!
I think this sums up the biggest problem Templot newbies now face. The vast majority come to Templot with the Peco mindset and knowledge base. This can take some shifting in my experience. The only answer is education and yes, I know there is a lot of information available on this website if they care to look for it, but that this is an uphill struggle is all too obvious. Most of the 1980s main line turnouts would have transition geometry anyway that Templot doen't address as an option. Even basic early Flatbottom track data seems to be difficult to find unless one has a copy of the relevant BRT p way books. All we can do is try.
Regards
Tony.


__________
message ref: 23393

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
15th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2018 00:01
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Tony W wrote:Most of the 1980s main line turnouts would have transition geometry anyway that Templot doesn't address as an option.Thanks Tony.

Indeed. And at that time, the 1432mm gauge vertical designs with double-curved switches. Which are not (yet) supported in Templot even for ordinary circular turnouts. They were introduced in 1970, so I'm only 48 years behind. :(

But of course, any of that only makes sense if you are building a large main-line layout in P4. There are not many of those.

The questioner here is building a 00 layout with 48" radius main-line curves. So there is simply no actual prototype which fits, for the 1980s or any other period. A complex new chunk of Templot functionality would be a complete waste of effort for any gauge other than 18.79/18.83mm.

What is needed is a modeller informed about prototype practice, who can then adapt it to the model circumstances in front of him. That's a condition which takes several years modelling to achieve. How you get a newcomer to that state in a few web pages and an hour or two on Templot is something of a mystery to me.

I do feel a bit pressured to provide that as part of Templot. I never claimed or set out to teach about trackwork and I don't know how to do it or where to begin. The original idea of Templot was that it would be a tool for modellers who already know what they are doing.

regards,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 23394

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
16th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2018 10:28
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin Wyne wrote.

"The original idea of Templot was that it would be a tool for modellers who already know what they are doing."

Precisely so, but I fear that that select band is a shrinking percentage of the total user base. Most Templot users seem to come at things from the opposite end. My interest in trackwork came from my observations of the real thing and the realisation that your typical propriety offering fell some way short of this. The Protofour series of articles published in the Model Railway Constructor in 1967 were a revelation to me and changed my expectations of what was achievable forever. A valuable reference work if you can get your hands on a copy.

It was and hopefully still is your hobby. This implies that you get some enjoyment and reward from it.  As such it is entirely your prerogative what you choose to do with it. The problem is that things move on and the prototype changes and develops, whether for the better is debatable. How far does one go trying to keep up with this? One has to draw the line somewhere.
In my view the forum is an ideal way to inform people, but this should not be left entirely to you, wide though your knowledge of the real railway is. My hope is / was that other members would help out with this as indeed several do. It is tedious having to keep going over the same old ground but inevitable with beginners. I think you are doing a splendid job single handedly. Templot really is amazing now. A real tribute to you. A series of relevant threads and videos that the beginner can be directed to is probably the best approach as I know you already do.
Regards
Tony.



__________
message ref: 23398

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
17th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2018 12:35
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
I agree with Tony, I came to Templot with the desire to get nicely flowing trackwork, I had some background of track formations having been involved in permanent way for some years previously on the ESR, and the need to understand the fundamentals I joined the Permanent Way Instution and got a copy of the bulkhead supplement. The GWRSG book on Great Western practice has also proved invaluable. I would suggest that any newcomers to Templot go away and do some homework, if they are that interested in the subject, it's well worth the time spent.

Let's face it Templot is a massive step up from off the shelf templates that was all that was available, unless you were prepared to draw up your own bespoke templates. I think that there were only a few prepared to do that, I certainly can't recall any layouts with bespoke trackwork prior to Templot. I did a few items of bespoke trackwork in fiddle yards by trial and error, I can't claim that said items had any prototypical fidelity.

I can't thank Martin enough for what he has provided us with, if he does no more he has provided us with a magnificent tool.

Phil
__________
message ref: 23401

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
18th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2018 12:54
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Judi R
Sutton-on-Sea, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides
I agree with Tony and Phil. Martin this is your hobby even if it has become addictive and (at times) all consuming! I am also one of the dying breed of ex-BR PWay design wallahs who simply want to replicate something as close as practicable to prototype practice. I find Templot slightly addictive - I'm also into designing electronics and PCB layouts and find DesignSpark highly addictive - but that's another story!

Judi
__________
message ref: 23402

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
19th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2018 19:04
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Tony W wrote:  The Protofour series of articles published in the Model Railway Constructor in 1967 were a revelation to me and changed my expectations of what was achievable forever. A valuable reference work if you can get your hands on a copy.

Regards
Tony.
Tony,

Available on-line here MRC 1967

I was using Lego trains at the time and just got my first one with a motor in it :D

Rob

__________
message ref: 23408

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
20th message | this message only posted: 18 Jan 2018 19:34
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Trevor Walling
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello Martin,
I agree with the members previously that learning and research about prototypical permanent way is a given when one decides to use Templot. Without that individuals would fail to understand even the basics necessary when trying to build trackwork using Templot even if spoon fed. I think it would be to your own benefit if you made this more clear to those just starting to try Templot. If people want the benefits using Templot brings the least they can do is to use Google.
Regards.Trevor.:)
__________
message ref: 23410

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
21st message | this message only posted: 19 Jan 2018 00:35
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
madscientist
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
In defence of the average modeller , let me say  I'm not a retired permanent way engineer , merely a modeller that wants to produce better track work then I can buy using PECO.

Yes one can read tombes of work on real PW , the issue is that models are not accurate reproductions of the prototype, the difficulty is knowing how to scale down real life track work into model form.

As Martin says , it's the subject of a book, one he'd be uniquely qualified to publish, by the way.

For example . He mentioned the advantages of using a B12 in a scissors crossing , now that of info is not apparent to the likes of me and will not easily be found by googling either.

So Martin , I'm sorry , but being a guru comes  with responsibilities :D
Dave 

__________
message ref: 23415

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
22nd message | this message only posted: 19 Jan 2018 01:07
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
madscientist wrote:So Martin, I'm sorry, but being a guru comes with responsibilities :DHi Dave,

a. what are you sorry about?

b. I'm not a guru.

c. I accept no responsibilities whatsoever. That's why Templot is FREE.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 23418

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
23rd message | this message only posted: 19 Jan 2018 12:41
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Nigel Brown
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Trevor Walling wrote: Hello Martin,
I agree with the members previously that learning and research about prototypical permanent way is a given when one decides to use Templot. Without that individuals would fail to understand even the basics necessary when trying to build trackwork using Templot even if spoon fed. I think it would be to your own benefit if you made this more clear to those just starting to try Templot. If people want the benefits using Templot brings the least they can do is to use Google.
Regards.Trevor.:)
Hi Trevor

Don't really go along with this. My reason for getting stuck into Templot some 15 years ago was that I was starting to build a layout in 3mm finescale, which of course meant building turnouts. Suitable ones were non-existant in 3mm, so it was a question of reducing ones from 4mm and attempting to work from those, or finding something better. The something better was Templot.

As my initial thoughts were about producing individual turnout templates, I didn't experience the problems which seem to beset some starters. The fact that I was modelling GWR and Templot not only catered for finescale 3mm but also had specific settings for such a company was a major bonus. In fact, the first template I produced was for a crossover rather than an individual turnout, and from there it was a minor mind reset to start thinking of drawing out the whole layout in Templot.

So what interest I had in prototype fidelity was already satisfied by Templot. The main thrust was providing trackwork which fitted the space I had available and which looked good.

I think this is what most newcomers coming to Templot are looking for, although they don't always realise it. Where people fall down is coming with an ambition to model say the station throat of Waterloo and think that Templot will do it all for them.

Since then I have begun to take more interest in the details of prototype trackwork, and the GWSG GWR trackwork book has proved invaluable. But lack of more detailed knowledge didn't stop me getting stuck into Templot successfully (even if there are a few details I might have done differently :().

Cheers
Nigel


__________
message ref: 23427

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
24th message | this message only posted: 19 Jan 2018 13:51
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Rob Manchester wrote: Tony W wrote:  The Protofour series of articles published in the Model Railway Constructor in 1967 were a revelation to me and changed my expectations of what was achievable forever. A valuable reference work if you can get your hands on a copy.

Regards
Tony.
Tony,

Available on-line here MRC 1967

I was using Lego trains at the time and just got my first one with a motor in it :D

Rob
Thanks Rob.
I suspected that they may be available on the internet somewhere, so thanks for the link.
I did search for them on the Scalefour site once but even as a member I could not find them. This explains why.
Hope they still continue to inspire people.
Regards
Tony.

__________
message ref: 23428

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
25th message | this message only posted: 19 Jan 2018 14:14
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
madscientist wrote: In defence of the average modeller , let me say  I'm not a retired permanent way engineer , merely a modeller that wants to produce better track work then I can buy using PECO.Hi Dave.
Nothing against the average modeller here, we all have to start somewhere as none of us is born an expert.
Likewise, I am not a retired P way engineer either and have never worked on the railways. I just learned about the subject from personal interest.
Surprising where this can lead sometimes. I had an interest in electronics in my teens (mainly valves back then). This ultimately led to a career in electronics. I never had a piece of paper that said I could do the job though as I was self taught. Not sure you could do that today.
The information about non standard turnouts such as a B-12 is covered in the BRT handbook, which kind of proves my point. I don't know the book inside out, I just refer to the relevant section when needed. Most of the second half of the book (the maths bit) was rendered redundant by Templot anyway, but still gives a good grounding.
Regards
Tony.

__________
message ref: 23429

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
26th message | this message only posted: 19 Jan 2018 15:05
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
The 2mm Scale Association's trackwork book is a good starter for beginners

http://www.2mm.org.uk/products/trackbook/index.html



See: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2112&forum_id=1


__________
message ref: 23430

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
27th message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 16:52
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Rob,

Reverting to the topic subject, I want to withdraw my suggestion that your B-12 turnout was a daft or unreasonable size. It is certainly highly unusual, but could be useful on occasions.

I have now updated the single-sided tandem turnouts for 218c. In the event that an irregular half-diamond won't fit for the new V-crossing, a gaunt turnout will be tried instead. Which in most cases will produce a satisfactory result instead of crashing out.

Here for example the initial 2nd turnout was an unusual A-20 size. In such a size, the V-crossing angle is flatter than the switch heel angle, with the result that the turnout road curves back in the opposite direction towards the main road.

But a tandem turnout is still possible. The new 1st turnout turned out :) to be entirely satisfactory around A-7 in size: 



I don't really know what such a tandem would be used for, but it is certainly possible to create it.

Well actually I do -- such turnouts are sometimes used to access lineside industrial premises where a normal turnout won't fit:



A single-sided tandem would provide access to premises on the other side of the line. The full formation would certainly make a talking-point. :)

Program update 218c will be available shortly.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 23445

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
28th message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 19:22
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin Wynne wrote: Hi Rob,

Reverting to the topic subject, I want to withdraw my suggestion that your B-12 turnout was a daft or unreasonable size.

cheers,

Martin.
Martin,

I thought you may come round to my way of thinking :) eventually..........my B-12 was daft and unreasonable but you pull out an A-20 and call it just unusual !

The idea of branching left to come across the main track ( or two if branched with a tandem ) is nice. I have often seen it used ( although usually only with a single turnout ) on tight formations in the USA. Locations like access to cramped buildings around New York harbour when the cars come off the carfloats. Tim Warris probably used them somewhere.

Good work with updating the SST algorithm. Thank you. Shall we confuse the new users even more by banging in loads of acronyms ?

Regards
Rob


__________
message ref: 23453

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
29th message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 21:04
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Trevor Walling
United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hello,
      
      Shall we confuse the new users even more by banging in loads of acronyms ?That could lead to even more questions. :D
Best wishes
Trevor.:)

__________
message ref: 23455

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
30th message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 21:21
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi Martin.
Your A-7, A-20 Tandem is on a par with one which I built recently for my storage sidings, a B-7, E-16. This came about due to the need to add a crossover where a B-7 already existed, but due to the curvature of the running lines either side of it an E-16 crossover was the shortest that complied with my minimum radius for the running lines. :thumb:
Regards
Tony.

__________
message ref: 23456

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
31st message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 23:29
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
madscientist
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Tony W wrote: madscientist wrote: In defence of the average modeller , let me say  I'm not a retired permanent way engineer , merely a modeller that wants to produce better track work then I can buy using PECO.Hi Dave.
Nothing against the average modeller here, we all have to start somewhere as none of us is born an expert.
Likewise, I am not a retired P way engineer either and have never worked on the railways. I just learned about the subject from personal interest.
Surprising where this can lead sometimes. I had an interest in electronics in my teens (mainly valves back then). This ultimately led to a career in electronics. I never had a piece of paper that said I could do the job though as I was self taught. Not sure you could do that today.
The information about non standard turnouts such as a B-12 is covered in the BRT handbook, which kind of proves my point. I don't know the book inside out, I just refer to the relevant section when needed. Most of the second half of the book (the maths bit) was rendered redundant by Templot anyway, but still gives a good grounding.
Regards
Tony.
BRT Handbook ?
__________
message ref: 23460

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
32nd message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 23:34
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



view images in gallery
view images as slides
Dave,

This :-  BRT

or one of the many other editions that have been done.

Rob



__________
message ref: 23461

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
33rd message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 23:37
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
madscientist wrote:BRT Handbook ?Hi Dave,

16 showing at:

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/british-railway-track-design-construction-maintenance/

Editions:

1. 1943/1947/1950 (rare)

2. 1956 (blue cover)

3. 1964 (red cover)

4. 1971 (black cover)

5. ...

Editions 2 or 3 for bullhead data.

Edition 4 is almost all flat-bottom, but more detailed about track generally.

Martin.

__________
message ref: 23463

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
34th message | this message only posted: 20 Jan 2018 23:59
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
madscientist
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Thanks Martin , just bought the 1956 version
__________
message ref: 23464

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
35th message | this message only posted: 21 Jan 2018 00:01
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
madscientist
 

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
I have the 2mm " track " book, but it's not great on prototype track imho
__________
message ref: 23465

 
This is topic ID = 3185     Page created at 21:52 (local time)  
You can type a quick reply to this topic here.

Click in the box to begin.


But to reply to an individual message, or to include images, attachments and formatted text, use the reply buttons on each message above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start new topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.

             Start new topic 

 click to jump to a different forum:     Back to top of page

Templot Club > Forums > I found a flaw > Issues with single sided tandem
about Templot Club

list recently active topics Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.

The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.
Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2018  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems