Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 18 Jan 2008 03:28 from: Brian Tulley
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Hi, I'd like to use two monitors with my pc (windows xp sp2) so I can learn Templot more easily (I'd like the instructions/tutorials on one screen and actually create the templates on the second - larger - screen). This way I won't have to keep jumping back and forth etc. The pc is fairly recent (2 years old) with an Intel Celeron 2.93GHz CPU and 703mb of RAM, there is only one connector for a display though, so I assume I'll need a replacement (or additional) video card (any suggestions much appreciated please!). I don't need anything clever since I don't do games, fancy graphics etc. Will there be any problems please - I'm guessing that other Templot users already have such a setup. Once installed will I need to configure any settings in the computer in order to use the second monitor please? Many thanks. Brian. p.s. Clever with computers I'm not, though for the most part I do get by. So please keep any responses simple!! |
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posted: 18 Jan 2008 05:43 from: Bob Ellis click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Hi Brian, Why don't you just print out the instructions/tutorials so that you can refer to them as you work on the screen. One advantage of this is that you can make notes on the paper copy as you go along. Best wishes, Bob Ellis |
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posted: 18 Jan 2008 13:07 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Brian I'm using a dual monitor setup, and Windows does make it very easy. You're right in that you'll need a new video card. I don't know whether you currently have on-board video or if it's a separate card, but the painless way is to buy a dual output video card, but this should be no more than around £40 for something with 256Mb. Because of the odd amount of RAM you reported, I'm guessing that you have on-board video that uses some of the available RAM. Without knowing more about the PC it's difficult to recommend a card - does your motherboard have an AGP slot or PCI-E? It's theoretically possible just to add another single monitor card, but that way lies madness  Graphics cards are basically a choice between nVidia and ATI - my personal preference is nVidia (although I have ATI at the moment)As far as setting up Windows goes, you just right-click on the desktop and hit "Properties" in the usual way, and the Settings tab will show you both monitors. The second monitor will be disabled by default, so you just tick the box to "extend desktop onto this monitor", then set appropriate resolutions - it's as easy as that. This is all after the appropriate drives have been installed. Once you have changed to a dual monitor setup, you'll wonder how you ever managed with just the one! |
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posted: 18 Jan 2008 23:15 from: Brian Tulley
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Hi Paul, Many thanks for the reply (and also thanks to Bob Ellis also). My pc is a Packard Bell imedia 1307 desktop with a Celeron 2.93GHz CPU; it had 256Mb of RAM but I've added another 512Mb of RAM (though only 703Mb is indicated - presumably the "available" RAM?). It does indeed have integrated video (presumably this means part of the motherboard?) and there is an AGP socket available. Is it better to fit a dual monitor card and disregard the existing on-board video? And what implications does the amount of video RAM have - what should I be considering as a minimum? Apart from those criteria is it simply a case of "any AGP 4x" will suffice? I'm really only looking to cover TEMPLOT on two monitors, so the latest super duper Graphics card for gaming isn't on my agenda - I'd rather have a "Skoda" than a "Jag" in this instance, as they'll both get you from A to B!! Many thanks. Brian. |
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posted: 19 Jan 2008 01:42 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi BrianIt does indeed have integrated video (presumably this means part of the motherboard?) and there is an AGP socket available. Is it better to fit a dual monitor card and disregard the existing on-board video?In this case it will definitely be better to fit a dual monitor card. From your figures, the onboard graphics was taking 64Mb from your main RAM, so you'll also get that back. The install sequence will be something like:
And what implications does the amount of video RAM have - what should I be considering as a minimum? Apart from those criteria is it simply a case of "any AGP 4x" will suffice?You'll probably be looking at AGP 8x cards these days. If your motherboard is 4x, you may have a little difficulty in finding a card. A quick look on google suggests that there may be some compatibility issues with an 8x card in a 4x slot. This is something I don't have experience of though - I went straight from a PCI card to 8x AGP. As far as graphics card memory goes, I would suggest 128Mb as a minimum. I'm really only looking to cover TEMPLOT on two monitors, so the latest super duper Graphics card for gaming isn't on my agenda - I'd rather have a "Skoda" than a "Jag" in this instance, as they'll both get you from A to B!!You'll find that you'll end up using more than just Templot on two monitors! I tend to go for graphics cards in the Ford range I do video editing stuff, so like a little power and comfort, but I don't need to get anywhere at high speed! I've just bought Pinnacle Studio 11, and it had the cheek to tell me that my 5-year-old second-hand card wasn't good enough  |
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posted: 22 Jan 2008 17:02 from: Brian Tulley
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Hi Paul, Many thanks for the reply; a new Graphics Card is now on the way to me (after realising all the different output formats that are available e.g. VGA, DVI-A, DVI-I, DVI-D and purchasing the correct one accordingly!) so hopefully I'll soon be up and running with two monitors. One question though. In your explanation above you mention uninstalling the existing drivers before installing the new graphics card. What would happen if the new card doesn't work for some reason - would there still be sufficient screen functionality (having uninstalled the drivers) in order to be able to re-install the drivers again? Or should I wait until the new card is up and running before uninstalling the old drivers? Many thanks. Best regards, Brian. p.s. Having read endless information about Graphics Cards etc. on the internet I'm now hoping my PSU is ok for the job (apparently it's only a 250W unit in my pc); however the particular Card I've chosen isn't the latest all-singing, all dancing unit capable of warp factor 9 performance (more of a £17 special actually), so I'm hopeful! Paul Boyd wrote: Hi Brian |
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posted: 22 Jan 2008 17:46 from: Paul Boyd
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One question though. In your explanation above you mention uninstalling the existing drivers before installing the new graphics card. What would happen if the new card doesn't work for some reason - would there still be sufficient screen functionality (having uninstalled the drivers) in order to be able to re-install the drivers again? Or should I wait until the new card is up and running before uninstalling the old drivers? Hi Brian When the graphics cards drivers are removed, Windows defaults to a basic VGA display - unless there's something physically wrong with the card (unlikely) you'll get a very low resolution screen on just one monitor, but that's enough to see what you're doing. You do need to remove the old drivers before putting in the new card otherwise all sorts of things could go wrong! As a last resort though, check the instructions, if any, that come with the new card. Don't forget to disable the on-board graphics in the BIOS after you've fitted the new card, but before you get as far as Windows, otherwise you'll be wondering where your display has gone! Depending on which BIOS you have, it might be a case of assigning priority rather than actually disabling anything, so make sure that your new card has top priority if that's the case. Mucking about with graphics cards can be scary because of that "what if I can't see anything?" worry, but I've never had any problems that stop the display totally. 250W PSU? That might be starting to get stretched. If the system doesn't start up or is unstable after fitting the card, I would suspect the PSU first rather than the card, but you'll probably be OK. One last thought - don't forget to take appropriate anti-static precautions! |
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posted: 22 Jan 2008 18:48 from: Brian Tulley
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Hi Paul, Many thanks for the reply - I'll give it a go and let you know the outcome! Best Regards, Brian. |
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posted: 25 Jan 2008 23:36 from: Brian Tulley
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Paul Boyd wrote: You'll find that you'll end up using more than just Templot on two monitors! I tend to go for graphics cards in the Ford rangeHi Paul, I've just spent much of today installing a new Graphics card etc. and have finally arrived at a situation where I've got two monitors running at the same time. However, whilst I can open some applications and then drag them across to the secondary monitor (e.g. Outlook Express) I can't with others - such as Internet. I'd really like to be able to move this across so I can have Templot open on the primary screen and the Templot web tutorials on the secondary screen. Also, when using Templot I can't move it from the primary screen but can move any "popup boxes" (such as those that appear when clicking on the HELP icon in Templot). Any ideas please? Many thanks Best Regards, Brian. |
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posted: 26 Jan 2008 00:10 from: Martin Wynne
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Brian Tulley wrote: However, whilst I can open some applications and then drag them across to the secondary monitor (e.g. Outlook Express) I can't with others - such as Internet.Hi Brian, Hold down the SHIFT key while you click Maximize, to extend programs across both monitors. You will find many programs work better if you have the primary monitor on the left. For Templot on multiple monitors you need to upgrade to version 091b. Here's the download: http://www.templot.com/tug/templot_pug_091b_setup.exe regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Jan 2008 00:17 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi BrianI've just spent much of today installing a new Graphics card etc. and have finally arrived at a situation where I've got two monitors running at the same time.That sounds like the good news, although the word "finally" sounds ominous! However, whilst I can open some applications and then drag them across to the secondary monitor (e.g. Outlook Express) I can't with others - such as Internet. I'd really like to be able to move this across so I can have Templot open on the primary screen and the Templot web tutorials on the secondary screen.Hmm... that should just work. Windows just sees both monitors as one big desktop. When you open a window not maximised, can you drag it around so that half of it appears on each monitor? It should just seamlessly glide across. Again with a non-maximised window on the primary monitor, can you drag the right edge of the window so that you can manually stretch it across both monitors? Maximised windows work slightly differently. When you open desktop properties, do you get a window like the one attached? Is the graphics card ATI or nVidia, or something else? It sounds like there is a setting not quite right somewhere.... Also, when using Templot I can't move it from the primary screen but can move any "popup boxes" (such as those that appear when clicking on the HELP icon in Templot)....especially as you say that. When you run Templot, it detects whether or not you're running multiple monitors (ah - from which version does this happen?) and asks if you want to match the primary monitor or use all available monitors. Martin will be better qualified to explain how Templot works with older versions with regard to multiple monitors To quote Martin, more questions than answers!! Oh - which operating system are you using? |
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posted: 26 Jan 2008 00:44 from: Brian Tulley
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Martin Wynne wrote: Hold down the SHIFT key while you click Maximize, to extend programs across both monitors. You will find many programs work better if you have the primary monitor on the left.Hi Martin, Many thanks - the SHIFT key works a treat! I'm a complete TEMPLOT novice at present, and currently have v. 074b. Will upgrading to v. 091b cause me any problems - perhaps with the Tutorials for instance? Many thanks. Best Regards, Brian. |
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posted: 26 Jan 2008 02:23 from: Brian Tulley
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Paul Boyd wrote:I've just spent much of today installing a new Graphics card etc. and have finally arrived at a situation where I've got two monitors running at the same time.That sounds like the good news, although the word "finally" sounds ominous! It was!! The installation disc wouldn't load; displays disappearing; endless messing with BIOS settings; downloading drivers from the website; uninstalling drivers; reinstalling drivers; taking the Card out, putting it back, trying to get the dual screens setup correctly....... Hmm... that should just work. Windows just sees both monitors as one big desktop. When you open a window not maximised, can you drag it around so that half of it appears on each monitor? It should just seamlessly glide across. Again with a non-maximised window on the primary monitor, can you drag the right edge of the window so that you can manually stretch it across both monitors? Maximised windows work slightly differently. When you open desktop properties, do you get a window like the one attached? Is the graphics card ATI or nVidia, or something else? It sounds like there is a setting not quite right somewhere.... Some applications would drag across, others wouldn't. But now I know about the SHIFT key trick (thanks Martin) I'm getting what I was hoping for. The Graphics Card is ATI, by the way, and I'm using XP. I'm currently considering upgrading TEMPLOT to v. 91b, as suggested by Martin. Best Regards, Brian. |
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posted: 26 Jan 2008 02:53 from: Martin Wynne
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Brian Tulley wrote: I'm a complete TEMPLOT novice at present, and currently have v. 074b. Will upgrading to v. 091b cause me any problems - perhaps with the Tutorials for instance? Hi Brian, The static tutorials were done with 074b. If you are completely new to Templot I recommend that you stay with 074b while you work through them. (Put Templot on the primary monitor and have your browser on the secondary monitor.) The later versions contain a great many extra features, but also some changed menus. So you might get confused if you try to follow the static tutorials in the later versions. I generally recommend that you work through the "track plan" tutorial in 074b, and then upgrade to 082d for the other tutorials and also to be able to follow the videos. 082d still doesn't get you the multiple monitor support, for which you need 091b. However, that version includes some further menu and terminology changes, making the tutorials and videos even more confusing for a beginner. It's all easy to follow through once you know the basics of Templot, but must be difficult to follow if you don't. So start off with 074b, but bear in mind that there is a lot more to discover in the later versions. As you can guess from the above, I'm finding it very difficult to develop the program and at the same time keep all users and beginners on board. It's just not possible to re-write the web site and change dozens of screenshots every time I make a change in the program. For some long pages describing all the changes from 074b to 082d, see: http://www.templot.com/martweb/pug_info.htm The static tutorials and videos are at: http://www.templot.com/martweb/tutorials.htm p.s. If you have a Templot CD, please regard it as a program backup only, and view the tutorials from the web site on the above link. The Templot CD is now discontinued. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 1 Feb 2008 22:07 from: Paul Boyd
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Just as a postscript to this thread, I've just had my own "dual monitor moment"! I changed the motherboard and processor in my PC, and went for a m/b with on-board dual display outputs, one VGA and one DVI. Plugged in both monitors, installed XP and the nVidia drivers, went into the Properties page and tried to enable the second monitor. Nothing!!! Thoughts of this thread went through my mind, specifically the "It should just work" comment made by someone not a million miles away from this keyboard. Lots of googling showed all sorts of people having the same problem, and blaming nVidia, except for one little snippet. Suffice it to say that I now know the difference between DVI-I and DVI-D With the latter, there is no analogue output, so my DVI to VGA adapter was never going to work! One new graphics card later, a quick BIOS tweak to get the shared memory back and "It just works", and I have a couple of unused display connectors on my motherboard And blimey, don't these dual-core processors make your machine fly?  |
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posted: 2 Feb 2008 07:32 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: Suffice it to say that I now know the difference between DVI-I and DVI-DHi Paul, Many thanks for the tip. I have a couple of those adapters and assumed that they wouldn't physically fit a DVI socket if there were no analogue signal pins. Fortunately I have a monitor with dual DVI and VGA inputs, so I didn't need the adaptor. The DVI cable cost a small fortune, but I can't see any visible difference in the display between the two inputs. regards, Martin. |
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