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             Rating                           Working point rodding from DCC Concepts
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 19 Sep 2018 13:22
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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DCC Concepts have just released a new system of working point rodding. Or at least I assume it's new, otherwise why have they suddenly sent me an email about it?

It looks interesting, see:

 https://www.dccconcepts.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/ROD-release-2-1.pdf

Martin.

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2nd message | this message only posted: 19 Sep 2018 23:51
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DaveJ61
Northampton, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin,

Wow... I haven't seen this before either. It looks way too fiddly and intricate for me. It would undoubedly lead to unwanted frustration and elevated blood pressure!
I daresay this would look cosmetically pleasing but at the same time, perhaps too vulnerable to faults and accidental damage.

David
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3rd message | this message only posted: 20 Sep 2018 16:18
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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Yes, they wrote to me about it too. I chatted to a couple of the DCC Concepts guys in a local model shop last month and they talked about the rodding system. It does sound interesting. The 'starter' kit at £100 is the place to start I guess but can't quite get my head round how much the contents will actually provide when it is installed.

Maybe the long-promised metal rail chairs will be along soon :) I had a chat with Richard at the Settle shop and he seemed to think they could get close to the price of injection moulded plastic chairs but I have my doubts. I suspect it depends on how many people are likely to buy them to spread the mould costs. Copperclad timbers aren't cheap these days either.

Rob


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4th message | this message only posted: 20 Sep 2018 19:25
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Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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Rob Manchester wrote: Maybe the long-promised metal rail chairs will be along soon :) I had a chat with Richard at the Settle shop and he seemed to think they could get close to the price of injection moulded plastic chairs but I have my doubts. I suspect it depends on how many people are likely to buy them to spread the mould costs. Copperclad timbers aren't cheap these days either.Rob,

As a matter of interest,  in the S Scale Society we produce cast brass chairs by sending our plastic sprues to David White at Slaters and he casts using the plastic sprues in a total loss operation - i.e. lost plastic casting. :D   The results are excellent but certainly not inexpensive since the metal casting charge per brass sprue is a lot more than the moulding cost of the plastic sprue.  We charge £2.60 per brass sprue and that includes the 0.30p cost of the plastic sprue which was destroyed in the making.   Those prices were from our last order a year or two ago and may well have increased.  I'll know soon since I've just sent another order off. :D

Before we had our plastic chairs,  we had whitemetal chairs which worked very well.   But latterly we found it impossible to find a caster who would produce the chairs in thousands - Bob Wills had done the casting originally - so that's when we got Len Newman to do our plastic ones.   If you can find a caster,  I suspect that whitemetal casting is probably the least expensive way of producing metal chairs. 

There is also 3D printing of metal parts and that might be another way to use but I don't know what the costs of this printing might be.

Jim.

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5th message | this message only posted: 20 Sep 2018 20:41
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Jim,

Thanks for your thoughts. I like to make all my layout track using seperate chairs except for fiddle yards and such like. Using flexitrack between custom P&C work never looks right when I try it. The issue of cost becomes more relevant then because you need around 200 chairs to make a yard of track in addition to 2 lengths of rail and sleepers. Luckily most of my future plans are for smaller layouts ( ....in case I don't stay around long enough to finish a big one :( )

There is often an issue within hobbies such as ours in that many of the original protaganists have either moved on,left the hobby or are at the stage of life when development of new ideas is not a priority ( you mentioned David White and Bob Wills, Brian Lewis is another, Bill Hudson, Bob Essery, David Jenkinson....the list gets longer ). More modern entrants are likely to encompass more modern technologies such as laser cutting or 3D printing. Finding people willing to cast metal chairs at a low price is probably quite difficult.

Rob


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6th message | this message only posted: 24 Sep 2018 14:24
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from:
Roger Henry
Brisbane, Australia

 

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Rob Manchester wrote: Hi Martin,

Yes, they wrote to me about it too. I chatted to a couple of the DCC Concepts guys in a local model shop last month and they talked about the rodding system. It does sound interesting. The 'starter' kit at £100 is the place to start I guess but can't quite get my head round how much the contents will actually provide when it is installed.

Maybe the long-promised metal rail chairs will be along soon :) I had a chat with Richard at the Settle shop and he seemed to think they could get close to the price of injection moulded plastic chairs but I have my doubts. I suspect it depends on how many people are likely to buy them to spread the mould costs. Copperclad timbers aren't cheap these days either.
Interesting and maybe fiddly to install and maintain. THE MRJ, some issues back, featured a non-working N Scale system. Some of the other accessories in the DCC range also  look interesting. I  haven't tried the point-motors. They seem to have some features that the Tortoise users have been asking for for years :D

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7th message | this message only posted: 6 Oct 2018 21:20
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Quick picture taken on the DCC Concepts stand at Wigan show today.



They admit to it being a little overscale for production purposes but I don't think it is out of place. Just maybe it could also work in 7mm scale ?? Now what did I do with those Gem lever frames I got back in 1976.......

Rob


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8th message | this message only posted: 8 Oct 2018 05:24
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from:
Andrew Barrowman
USA

 

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Rob Manchester wrote: Quick picture taken on the DCC Concepts stand at Wigan show today.



They admit to it being a little overscale for production purposes but I don't think it is out of place. Just maybe it could also work in 7mm scale ?? Now what did I do with those Gem lever frames I got back in 1976.......

Rob

Overscale or not it looks like a great way of avoiding the nightmare of mounting point motors under the baseboard. The logical extension would, of course, be a robotic signalman to operate the levers (not quite as ridiculous as it might seem.)

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9th message | this message only posted: 8 Oct 2018 08:32
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Andrew Barrowman wrote: Rob Manchester wrote: Quick picture taken on the DCC Concepts stand at Wigan show today.



They admit to it being a little overscale for production purposes but I don't think it is out of place. Just maybe it could also work in 7mm scale ?? Now what did I do with those Gem lever frames I got back in 1976.......

Rob

Overscale or not it looks like a great way of avoiding the nightmare of mounting point motors under the baseboard. The logical extension would, of course, be a robotic signalman to operate the levers (not quite as ridiculous as it might seem.)
Seem to remember something similar being done years back in an early Railway Modeller or Model Railway Constructor. Something like an Airfix railway worker with his arm pivoting, just a straight wire connection to the tiebar no rodding 
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10th message | this message only posted: 9 Oct 2018 06:05
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from:
Andrew Barrowman
USA

 

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Hayfield wrote: I remember something similar being done years back in an early Railway Modeller or Model Railway Constructor. Something like an Airfix railway worker with his arm pivoting, just a straight wire connection to the tiebar no rodding Maybe we should ask Martin to include point-rodding in the next version of Templot? I mean, how hard could it really be?

(I might be off the air for a few days. I'll be in my underground bunker.)



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11th message | this message only posted: 9 Oct 2018 19:58
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Trevor Walling
United Kingdom

 

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Hello,
No don't do it Martin.:D
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12th message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2018 00:33
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Trevor, Andy,

There is a page in my Templot NOD* book which has been there for many years.  The heading is:

 Point Rodding?

The rest of the page is blank. :)

But now that Templot is Open Source, maybe someone else could be filling it in?

*Nice One Day.

Martin.

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13th message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2018 00:56
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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin ( or anybody else :) )

Are there any good reference books / web-sites that deal with point rodding, signal wires and other lineside equipment ? Obviously you get it included in pictures of track in general but usually without much comment in the caption ( lack of knowledge ? ) There is some info around but not much unless I am missing something obvious.

Rob


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14th message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2018 02:46
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Rob Manchester wrote: Hi Martin ( or anybody else :) )

Are there any good reference books / web-sites that deal with point rodding, signal wires and other lineside equipment ? Obviously you get it included in pictures of track in general but usually without much comment in the caption ( lack of knowledge ? ) There is some info around but not much unless I am missing something obvious.
Hi Rob,

Try to find copies of these:









(in 2 parts, part 1 has a blue cover),




The books have hundreds of pages of detailed text with many hundreds of sketches and drawings. They were republished in A4 format by Peter Kay in the 1990s. Difficult to open flat for scanning:







ISBN 1899890246

ISBN 1899890203
ISBN 1899890211

ISBN 1899890041

ISBN 1899890114

Googling the ISBN numbers can find copies, e.g.

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Railway-Signalling-Communications-Installation-Maintenance/dp/1899890246

 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mechanical-Railway-Signalling-Pt-1/dp/1899890203

 https://www.transportstore.com/Lewis-Lp-Fraser-Jh-Railway-Signal-Engineering-mechanical-Book-14686-238.cfm

cheers,

Martin.

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15th message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2018 08:27
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from:
Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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Rob Manchester wrote: Are there any good reference books / web-sites that deal with point rodding, signal wires and other lineside equipment ? Obviously you get it included in pictures of track in general but usually without much comment in the caption ( lack of knowledge ? ) There is some info around but not much unless I am missing something obviousRob,

There was a very long series of articles in the Model Railway Constructor many years ago on constructing a P4 layout - based in the south west and the clay traffic is all I can remember of the detail at the moment.  But what I do remember is a description of point rodding and how it was laid out on the prototype which was an excellent potted source of all the information needed for our models.   Others may jump in with more details of the series and I could start digging through my copies of the MRC to try and find the article and do a copy for you.

Jim.

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16th message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2018 10:50
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from:
grahamroberts
 

 

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The 2mm Scale Association has just published an excellent primer on point rodding and how to lay it out in a model. Laurie Adams wrote it after his experience designing rodding and the etches to model them for his Yeovil Pen Mill layout. I picked up a copy at the 2mmSA AGM last weekend and found it excellent, particularly the section on how to plan and allow space for rodding without having to be an S&T guru. It includes many prototype photos and refers extensively to some of the references Martin cites, but the relevant bits are all brought together in one place.

It cost £3 as far as I recall. You should be able to find it on the Association roadshow at exhibitions they attend, or get a member to order it for you if you are not already of the 2FS persuasion :-)

Regards
Graham
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rodney_hills
United Kingdom

 

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Jim Guthrie wrote (snipped)
“ 
There was a very long series of articles in the Model Railway Constructor many years ago on constructing a P4 layout - based in the south west and the clay traffic is all I can remember of the detail at the moment.  But what I do remember is a description of point rodding and how it was laid out on the prototype which was an excellent potted source of all the information needed for our models.   Others may jump in with more details of the series and I could start digging through my copies of the MRC to try and find the article and do a copy for you.
Jim.



Hello, 

Below is a listing of the individual articles in the "Building a Layout" (Bodmin) series that appeared in the "Model Railway Constructor" magazine in 1981-1984.


The North London Group exhibited the "Bodmin" layout at Scaleforum show at Leatherhead Leisure Centre Sat & Sun 26-27 September 2009. I believe it is still in existence.

See: http://www.scalefour.org/history/more.htm#p4mags

North London Group:  Bodmin articles 
Model Railway Constructor Building a Layout 

Issue Part Title(& content) Author 
Jan '81 1. Research for the Layout - 1 Martin Goodall 
Feb '81 2. Research for the Layout - 2 Martin Goodall 
Mar '81 3. Research for the Layout - 3 Martin Goodall 
Apr.'81 4. Research for the Layout - 4 Martin Goodall 
May '81 5. Research for the Layout - 5 Martin Goodall 
Jun '81 6. Research for the Layout - 6 Martin Goodall 
Aug '81 7. The Civil Side - 1 Les Howard 
Sep.'81 8. The Civil Side - 2 Les Howard 
Oct.'81 9. The Trackwork - 1 Tony Wilkins 
Nov' 81 10. The Trackwork - 2 Tony Wilkins 
Dec' 81 11. The Trackwork - 3 Tony Wilkins 
Jan '82 12. The Trackwork - 4 Tony Wilkins 
Feb '82 13. Point Rodding - 1 Mike Sargent 
Mar '82 14. Point Rodding - 2 Mike Sargent 
Jun '82 15. Signalling - 1 Introduction, Block, Home, Distant - Martin Goodall 
Jul '82 16. Signalling - 2 Starting, Shunt, Subsidiary, Discs - Martin Goodall 
Aug '82 17. Signalling - 3 Junction, GWR signal styling - Martin Goodall 
Sep '82 18. Signalling - 4 Levers & Locking Introduction - Martin Goodall 
Oct '82 19. Signalling - 5 Interlocking Principles - Martin Goodall 
Nov '82 20. Signalling - 6 Locking Charts, Pt.18 Corrections - Martin Goodall 
Jan '83 21. Signalling - 7 Block Instruments - Martin Goodall 
Mar '83 22. Making the Signals - 1 R Hammond 
Apr '83 23. Making the Signals - 2 R Hammond 
May '83 24. Controls - 1, Lever frame theory & locking methods - Mike Sargent 
Jun '83 25. Controls - 2, Lever frame practice, electric locks - Mike Sargent 
Aug.'83 26. Controls - 3, Conditional link control - Mike Sargent 
Sep '83 27. Controls - 4, Further useful circuits - Mike Sargent 
Oct '83 28. Controls - 5, More useful circuits - Mike Sargent 
Nov '83 29. Controls - 6, Wiring the boards Mike - Sargent 
Jan '84 30. Structures for Bodmin - 1 John Hayes 
Feb '84 31. Structures for Bodmin - 2 John Hayes 
Apr '84 32. Structures for Bodmin - 3 John Hayes 
Jun '84 - Bodmin Goods Shed, Scale drawing 
Oct '84 33. Operation - Mike Sargent 

List of referring Letters:
May '81 3 Letters re: Research for the Layout - Martin Goodall 
Jun '81 1 Letter re: Research for the Layout - Martin Goodall 
Nov '81 1 Letter re: Research for the Layout - 6 Martin Goodall
1 Letter re: Goodall, includes GWR Traffic figures for Bodmin
Jan '82 1 Letter re: The Trackwork - 1 Tony Wilkins
1 Letter correcting info in first Nov '81 letter 
Sep '82 1 Letter re: Point Rodding - Mike Sargent
(1 Letter, off-topic by Essery re: Bodmin winning 'Bristol Buffer')
Nov '82 1 Letter re: Signalling - 4 Martin Goodall
Dec '82 1 Letter Goodall replying to Nov '8

Some years ago the Scalefour Society made moves toward republishing the series, but apparently there was some issue relating to the photographs in the articles and nothing appeared.


My contact on this matter was with Keith Norgrove, who was  Scalefour Society webmaster at the time. I recollect suggesting that many of the articles only had diagrams, not photos, so surely it would be worth republishing with less than ideal quality photos.
Certainly the interlocking etc articles that I was interested in did not rely on photographs.



Regards, Rodney Hills




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from:
Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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Rob,

I read the name Bodmin somewhere else and that triggered the name of the P4 Layout. :) If you want them, I have scanned the eight pages to PDF which I can email to you. But that 2mm publication does look interesting.

Jim.
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richard_t
Nr. Spalding, South Holland, United Kingdom



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More ISBN's for what seem to be similar guides, but in a different format:

British Railway Signalling Practice - signalling instruments (Green Books 4, 12, 13) ISBN: 1 899890 34 3

British Railway Signalling Practice - mechanical (Green Books 1, 2, 3, 10) ISBN: 1 899890 33 5

British Railway Signalling Practice - electrical(Green Books 7, 9, 11) ISBN: 1 899890 36 X
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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Jim Guthrie wrote: Rob,

I read the name Bodmin somewhere else and that triggered the name of the P4 Layout. :) If you want them, I have scanned the eight pages to PDF which I can email to you. But that 2mm publication does look interesting.

Jim.Hi Jim,

Yes, please. My email should be visible to you by clicking on my profile. Thanks in anticipation.

Rob


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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Thanks to Martin and all the other posters. I will look at the suggestions.

Rob


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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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I have an unused starter pack of the DCC Concepts point rodding system available for any interested customer. My email address is visible on my profile ( for Templot Club Members )

Rob


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