click here for a list of all existing Templot documentation
Important Privacy Information cookie information pre-print options:    

click image to open Templot Club in a new tab
Templot club top logo
looking for Templot? - (free)



 you are not logged in  - Login | Join


receive all messages by email: info


Recent Topics
Front Page  Search  Image Gallery  Gallery Upload  My Account  Members  Open Source  TemplotMEC  Help  
make a donation  
please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors Templot Companion - User Guide
            messages archive on Yahoo
page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > Turnout sleeper spacing
Templot web site

                                       Turnout sleeper spacing
     
 Start new topic   Reply blank   Printer friendly 
  Rate this topic  
AuthorMessage
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
1st message | this message only posted: 9 Oct 2018 05:34
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Graeme Lewis
Brisbane, Australia

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Hi
I have recently begun using the "shove timber" function to try and emulate Midland Railway sleepering for turnouts (rather than drawing the timbers by hand on the base board).  This works very well. However, I am having little success in trying to copy the control template once I have modified the sleeper spacings and widths.  For example, I went into Real/Switch Settings and set an A switch using the control template which had been modified to the desired timbering.  However, when I apply this for other turnouts the timbering stays as per the Templot default. I have also tried copying a whole turnout and adding this but usually I get a message saying I cannot do this because it is already in the storage box.

I can manually modify every turnout but for a layout 70' x 22' some short cuts are desirable!

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards

Graeme Lewis

__________
message ref: 25821
Attachment: Ashton Old Road station looking in up direction.JPG (Downloaded 48 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
2nd message | this message only posted: 9 Oct 2018 22:33
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Graeme,

Welcome to Templot Club. Some impressive pointwork there. :)

We need a bit more information -- the Midland Railway didn't use REA switches (introduced 1925), so if you have MR data you should probably be creating a custom switch:



To customize the timbering in the rest of the turnout you can use the real > timbering > timbering data... and real > V-crossing options > customize V-crossing > menu items:



For more information on the above, see:

 http://templot.com/companion/timber_spacings_overview.php

The shove timber functions are intended to create modifications specific to a single template, rather than to replicate standard prototype designs*. For example if 2 timbers conflict in a junction, or a timber needs shortening to clear an obstruction, or lengthening to carry rodding cranks.

* but in some cases they may be the only way of doing that.

To save and re-use any setting in Templot you need to store a template containing it. Usually marked as a library template to remind you why it's in the file, program > store as library template menu item.

It can then be copied onto the trackpad before being modified for the next track location, or some settings can be obtained from it -- such as a custom switch. On the storage box, edit > obtain to the control template > menu items.

(Note that obtaining does not copy any timber shoving -- to do that you need to copy the entire turnout to the control template.)

but usually I get a message saying I cannot do this because it is already in the storage boxYou will see that only if you are adding templates from a file. There is no reason to add duplicate templates from a file because you can easily copy the one you already have, if needed.

I can manually modify every turnout but for a layout 70' x 22' some short cuts are desirable!You don't need to do that, but to explain we need a bit more information about your MR data. Please post your .box file as an attachment here if you can.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 25836

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
3rd message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2018 11:58
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Graeme Lewis
Brisbane, Australia

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin
Thanks for your very quick response.  I had thought that having saved a turnout as a file I could then simply add it ad infinitum - however copying it works well - the only snag being with a large layout it can sometimes be difficult finding the right turnout to copy!

I attach a box file for my version of a MR A7 turnout.  (By the way, I had never considered using A switches until I corresponded with a retired BR perway engineer.  The beauty of an A7 is that it is a "natural" turnout and for 7mm has a radius of 2.4m in slightly less space than the more usual B6, which has a sharper turnout radius).  The timbering is based on the drawing of a MR 15' straight planed switch at page 94 of Modern British Permanent Way by Cecil J Allen, published 1915.  Similarly the timbering at the vee and wing is from page 131 of the same reference.  I have interpreted this for a variety of crossing angles and for 9', 12' and 15' straight planed switches.  For convenience (ie, laziness) I have normalised the dimensions a little.

I wasn't aware of the library template function and will have a fiddle with that.

Regards

G

__________
message ref: 25844
Attachment: MR A7 turnout.box (Downloaded 20 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
4th message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2018 13:14
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Graeme Lewis wrote: however copying it works well - the only snag being with a large layout it can sometimes be difficult finding the right turnout to copy!

I attach a box file for my version of a MR A7 turnout.  (By the way, I had never considered using A switches until I corresponded with a retired BR perway engineer.  The beauty of an A7 is that it is a "natural" turnout and for 7mm has a radius of 2.4m in slightly less space than the more usual B6, which has a sharper turnout radius).
Hi Graeme,

To find the right template, store it as a library template. It is then easy to find in the storage box and copy from there (coloured in green).

"A" switches are useful, but they are not used in running lines because of the severe 1:24 deflection.

The MR didn't have an A7 turnout. What you have created is a 9ft loose-heel straight switch, with some shoved timbering.

Here is the MR 15ft switch which you mentioned:



It is a flexible switch, not loose-heel, and the geometry differs significantly from a 9ft switch. It can be created as a custom switch in its own right. It could then be selected and obtained into any template in the same way as the other switches in the list:



It won't need any timber shoving for the timber positions (although the four 14" wide timbers will need to be widened that way).

I seem to remember covering all this in a video a few years ago, but I can't find it at present.

I will make a new Templot2 video showing how to create and re-use a custom switch, based on this MR example, but it will take me a day or two.

cheers,

Martin.

__________
message ref: 25846

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
5th message | this message only posted: 11 Oct 2018 12:15
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Graeme Lewis
Brisbane, Australia

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin
I am aware that A (9') switches weren't used in running lines which is why I was surprised when the perway engineer suggested it.  To be honest I have used one on a branch line to a private siding - so only trains shunting the siding experience the 1 in 24 deflection.  From a modelling perspective it works very well.  I have always used flexible switches but am now beginning to think I should look at using loose heel 9' switches.

I was surprised when you say the MR didn't use A7's (to use the more modern terminology).  My
understanding is that (within sensible limits), you could combine switches and vee crossings to suit any given situation.  I would love to know if there is some reference giving more info on MR track work.

I have used the custom switch function by manually inserting the sleeper spacing's for 12' and 15' flexible straight cut switches.  Essentially the sleeper spacing's are the same as Cecil Allen seems to suggest that the MR used the same rail lengths so the sleeper spacing has to be the same, but the divergence differs.  I have also used the vee and wing custom settings and these work well - thanks.  However, I have a suspicion that when I close the current file they will be lost - how do I save them for reuse? 

I attach a MR C9 - or should it be a 15' straight planed switch with 1 in 9 vee?  This uses the above custom settings though it doesn't include the wider 14" sleepers and I have standardised the wing and vee sleeper spacing's - in reality they varied a bit (according to Mr Allen).

Regards

G



__________
message ref: 25853
Attachment: MR C9 turnout.box (Downloaded 22 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 11 Oct 2018 12:40
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



view images in gallery
view images as slides

Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Graeme Lewis wrote: I was surprised when you say the MR didn't use A7's (to use the more modern terminology).  My understanding is that (within sensible limits), you could combine switches and vee crossings to suit any given situation.  I would love to know if there is some reference giving more info on MR track work.Hi Graeme,

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that the MR didn't have a turnout of that equivalent size. I meant that bullhead switches called "A" were introduced by the REA in the SRC designs of 1925, with specific dimensions. For example they are semi-curved switches with a switch radius of 482ft. No doubt the MR had a short switch of similar overall size but not identical.

Bob Essery wrote some articles about MR trackwork in issues of Midland Record magazine. Sorry I don't have the ref numbers. The HMRS/Midland Railway Museum at Butterley is probably the best contact for more information, see:

 https://hmrs.org.uk/msc

cheers,

Martin. 

__________
message ref: 25854

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
7th message | this message only posted: 12 Oct 2018 11:45
 PM  Reply with quote  Reply blank 
from:
Graeme Lewis
Brisbane, Australia

 

view images in gallery
view images as slides
Martin

Many thanks for your responses - this has been most helpful. I have all of the Midland Records so I will spend some time studying the photos to try and capture the quite distinctive look that MR track had.

Regards

G
__________
message ref: 25862

 
This is topic ID = 3338     Page created at 09:52 (local time)  
You can type a quick reply to this topic here.

Click in the box to begin.


But to reply to an individual message, or to include images, attachments and formatted text, use the reply buttons on each message above.

To start a new topic in this forum, click the Start new topic button below.
To start a new topic in a different forum, click the Forum Jump drop-down list below.

             Start new topic 

 click to jump to a different forum:     Back to top of page

Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > Turnout sleeper spacing
about Templot Club

list recently active topics Templot Companion - User Guide - A-Z Index Templot Explained for beginners Please click: important information for new members and first-time visitors.
indexing link for search engines

back to top of page


Please read this important note about copyright: Unless stated otherwise, all the files submitted to this web site are copyright and the property of the respective contributor. You are welcome to use them for your own personal non-commercial purposes, and in your messages on this web site. If you want to publish any of this material elsewhere or use it commercially, you must first obtain the owner's permission to do so.

The small print: All material submitted to this web site is the responsibility of the respective contributor. By submitting material to this web site you acknowledge that you accept full responsibility for the material submitted. The owner of this web site is not responsible for any content displayed here other than his own contributions. The owner of this web site may edit, modify or remove any content at any time without giving notice or reason.
Problems with this web site? Contact webmaster@templot.com.   This web site uses cookies: click for information.  
© 2018  

Powered by UltraBB - © 2009 Data 1 Systems