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page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Trackbuilding topics > Gauges for 0-MF
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                 Gauges for 0-MF
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 14 Nov 2018 17:09
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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Is " Debs " still supplying O-MF gauges and if not has anyone any idea where to get some . Is there a current contact for Debs 
Thanks 
dave



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2nd message | this message only posted: 14 Nov 2018 17:35
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Andrew Barrowman
USA

 

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I doubt if Debs will be able to help. The poor lady has been having a really rotten time with medical issues and I believe she is still in hospital.

If you can't find another source I can turn one for you on the lathe. Yours for the postage cost. I'll just need a sketch with dimensions.

Cheers,
Andy

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3rd message | this message only posted: 14 Nov 2018 17:37
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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Andrew Barrowman wrote: I doubt if Debs will be able to help. The poor lady has been having a really rotten time with medical issues and I believe she is still in hospital.

If you can't find another source I can turn one for you on the lathe. Yours for the postage cost. I'll just need a sketch with dimensions.

Cheers,
Andy
Thats extremely kind of you , next step . a drawing, Can anyone  help ?
dave 

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4th message | this message only posted: 14 Nov 2018 17:52
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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No need for drawing Ahem, how many would you like?
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5th message | this message only posted: 14 Nov 2018 18:15
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
According to this recent post, Debs has the 0-MF gauges in stock and is able to supply them:

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137617-actual-track-gauge/page-3#entry3333728

Martin.

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6th message | this message only posted: 14 Nov 2018 18:22
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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Stephen Freeman wrote: No need for drawing Ahem, how many would you like?2 please 
thanks 

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from:
Andrew Barrowman
USA

 

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Martin Wynne wrote: According to this recent post, Debs has the 0-MF gauges in stock and is able to supply them:

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137617-actual-track-gauge/page-3#entry3333728

Martin.
That's good to hear!

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8th message | this message only posted: 20 Nov 2018 08:29
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from:
madscientist
 

 

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Debs replied to me in detail , no issues getting gauges
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9th message | this message only posted: 20 Nov 2018 09:20
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from:
Bernard Haste
 

 

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Is it possible to obtain gauges to a different gauge to the ones presently on offer?

Bernard
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10th message | this message only posted: 20 Nov 2018 19:24
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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What gauge do you want?
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11th message | this message only posted: 20 Nov 2018 19:55
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from:
Bernard Haste
 

 

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11.52mm (and a specific rail head width).

Bernard
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12th message | this message only posted: 21 Nov 2018 17:09
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Depends on the rail head width. As long as its not too small. Basically anything I can turn on my lathe
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13th message | this message only posted: 21 Nov 2018 17:14
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Stephen Freeman wrote: Depends on the rail head width. As long as its not too small. Basically anything I can turn on my latheHello Stephen,

As a matter of interest what is the smallest "head" width you are able to produce for roller track gauges ? I use standard parting tools for turning the rail slots but getting blades thin enough for 4mm use is difficult - unless maybe you make your own ?

Rob


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14th message | this message only posted: 23 Nov 2018 23:32
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Andrew Barrowman
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Hi Rob,

I grind my own from square HSS stock. It's not difficult. You just need to keep dipping the HSS in water to maintain the hardness. The final step is to polish it down to size with a flat stone or a diamond sharpening plate.

Andy
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15th message | this message only posted: 24 Nov 2018 22:42
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Andrew Barrowman wrote: Hi Rob,

I grind my own from square HSS stock. It's not difficult. You just need to keep dipping the HSS in water to maintain the hardness. The final step is to polish it down to size with a flat stone or a diamond sharpening plate.

AndyHi Andy,

Can you explain more ? Are you also turning the stock to make roller gauges or using the square section as the finished gauge ?

Rob


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16th message | this message only posted: 24 Nov 2018 23:36
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from:
Andrew Barrowman
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Rob Manchester wrote: Andrew Barrowman wrote: Hi Rob,

I grind my own from square HSS stock. It's not difficult. You just need to keep dipping the HSS in water to maintain the hardness. The final step is to polish it down to size with a flat stone or a diamond sharpening plate.

AndyHi Andy,

Can you explain more ? Are you also turning the stock to make roller gauges or using the square section as the finished gauge ?

Rob

Hi Rob,

That's how I make a tool from square stock HSS (high-speed steel) to turn the grooves for a track gauge in my lathe. I'll try to post a pic tomorrow. (It's slightly chilly in my workshop at the moment :) )

I was going to make myself a couple of spring loaded gauges that don't care how wide the rail is but I did a body-swerve into 3D printing instead.

Cheers,
Andy

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17th message | this message only posted: 25 Nov 2018 07:10
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Jim Guthrie
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Andy,

You can also get external grooving tools ready made with replaceable bits - not cheap, but ready to go.

https://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-gb/products/pages/external-grooving-tools.aspx

A supplier like MSC has a wide range of types and suppliers

https://www.mscdirect.co.uk/CGI/INSRCH?ns=1&oldNtt=solid+grooving+tools&oldNtk=Keyword+Search&oldURLVar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scrNtt=solid+external+grooving+tools&image.x=0&image.y=0&Ntk=Keyword+Search

You might find it easier to go to page 467 in their virtual catalogue to see what's there - I can't seem to give URLs into the catalogue.


Jim
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18th message | this message only posted: 25 Nov 2018 11:33
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Jim Guthrie wrote: You might find it easier to go to page 467 in their virtual catalogue to see what's there - I can't seem to give URLs into the catalogue.Hi Jim,

Thanks.

Here's the link to page 483, which has some very thin grooving inserts down to .019" wide, see middle of page:

 https://edition.pagesuite.com/html5/reader/production/default.aspx?pubname=&pubid=9c3eabd2-e3ba-4a9f-8bd3-aa6475bd6e37&pnum=483

(click the pink links to order)

UK heavy-rail widths (2.75") in thou:

4mm/ft: .036"

7mm/ft: .063"

cheers,

Martin.

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19th message | this message only posted: 25 Nov 2018 18:42
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Hi,
I use a couple of parting off tools, suitably altered for 7mm and 4mm scale, so can do width for 7mm scale Bullhead and 4mm scale bullhead (approx 1mm). I can probably do smaller if needed.
Rob Manchester wrote: Stephen Freeman wrote: Depends on the rail head width. As long as its not too small. Basically anything I can turn on my latheHello Stephen,

As a matter of interest what is the smallest "head" width you are able to produce for roller track gauges ? I use standard parting tools for turning the rail slots but getting blades thin enough for 4mm use is difficult - unless maybe you make your own ?

Rob



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20th message | this message only posted: 25 Nov 2018 18:55
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from:
Andrew Barrowman
USA

 

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Jim Guthrie wrote: Andy,

You can also get external grooving tools ready made with replaceable bits - not cheap, but ready to go.

https://www.sandvik.coromant.com/en-gb/products/pages/external-grooving-tools.aspx

A supplier like MSC has a wide range of types and suppliers

https://www.mscdirect.co.uk/CGI/INSRCH?ns=1&oldNtt=solid+grooving+tools&oldNtk=Keyword+Search&oldURLVar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scrNtt=solid+external+grooving+tools&image.x=0&image.y=0&Ntk=Keyword+Search

You might find it easier to go to page 467 in their virtual catalogue to see what's there - I can't seem to give URLs into the catalogue.


Jim
Thanks Jim.

They're a bit spendy for me and carbide and I just don't get along. I'm blaming my lathe for not being rigid enough, but it's more likely an operator problem.

This is the sort of thing I was on about.



Cheers,
Andy

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21st message | this message only posted: 25 Nov 2018 19:09
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from:
Bernard Haste
 

 

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Hello Stepen,

Could you make 11.52mm gauge with a rail head width of 32 thou?

Many thanks,

Bernard
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22nd message | this message only posted: 25 Nov 2018 19:14
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Hi, I will have a look tomorrow as I have a few gauges to make
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23rd message | this message only posted: 25 Nov 2018 19:43
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Thanks to all for the input on the gauge making. The spring gauge that Andy suggested sound interesting, have to have a think about that option. I guess the gauge face and spring mechanism would both have to sit fairly deeply onto the rail rather than just holding onto the rail head.

I had some P4 gauges a while back ( think they may have been either Exactoscale or possibly K&L ) that were made with an aluminium spacer that slid onto a centre tapped rod. There were various washers that fitted onto the ends, the purpose of which was to apply gauge widening. That design may be worth a thought but you would still need to provide a rail width spacer on each end.

That catalogue could be a serious money-pit. Some nice stuff although I have heard some bad tales of TC tool bits.

Rob


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24th message | this message only posted: 26 Nov 2018 14:08
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Hi,
Within tolerance of 0.01mm

Bernard Haste wrote: Hello Stepen,

Could you make 11.52mm gauge with a rail head width of 32 thou?

Many thanks,

Bernard


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25th message | this message only posted: 26 Nov 2018 15:41
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from:
Bernard Haste
 

 

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Hello Stephen,

Could you send me a private e-mail please?

TRhank you.

Bernard
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26th message | this message only posted: 26 Nov 2018 18:39
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Unfortunately you have your email set to private, which means I can't, nor can anybody else.
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27th message | this message only posted: 26 Nov 2018 18:46
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Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

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Hi Bernard,

I have changed your email setting for you. Stephen can now see it.

cheers,

Martin.

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Bernard Haste
 

 

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Thank you,

Would that also explain my not seeing Raymond`s messages?

Bernard
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Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Bernard Haste wrote: Thank you,

Would that also explain my not seeing Raymond`s messages?

Bernard
Hi Bernard,

No, emails between you do not have any connection with Templot Club.

The usual reasons for not seeing an email are:

1. it has ended up in your spam/junk folder for some reason, or

2. the sender got your email address wrong, or

3. they added a very large attachment, typically over 10MB.

cheers,

Martin.

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30th message | this message only posted: 13 Dec 2018 11:31
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Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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I have just received my latest batch of goodies from PPD despite the best efforts of Royal Mail sending it on a circular tour of the UK.

Upshot is that I now have the lasered blanks for a batch of 3 point gauges for 0MF, more details on availability etc soon.
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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Stephen Freeman wrote: I have just received my latest batch of goodies from PPD despite the best efforts of Royal Mail sending it on a circular tour of the UK.

Upshot is that I now have the lasered blanks for a batch of 3 point gauges for 0MF, more details on availability etc soon.Yes, please do that. Will be a nice addition to Deb's roller gauges.

Rob


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Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Next week I hope. I now have to find a use for the "waste" brass, too good to throw and I am sure it will have a use somehow. The brass is 2mm thick, so won't bend and has holes lasered to take the studs to fit on the rail head. Just waiting for the rod for the studs now.

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33rd message | this message only posted: 1 Jan 2019 14:17
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Hi,

I will have to have another go at the CAD as I miscalculated slightly.

However I can still use the blanks for their intended purpose, it's just that I have had to drill some new holes.

I would still have had to drill the holes out anyway as I found that they needed to be 2.1mm in diameter to take 2mm rod. I'll make allowance for that in the amendment.

Anyway I have checked that they work OK, I am just not certain whether or not making them to just fit the rail head so that they can slide along the track is a good thing or a more positive fit is better.

At the moment I have gone for the more positive fit but obviously the studs can be shortened to suit if necessary.

Anyway I have a stock of about 20, which should keep me going for some time.
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Nigel Brown
 

 

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Me, I'd be tempted to go for the slightly looser fit on the rail. If the chair grips the rail it can be quite difficult to feed the rail through, and I think there's more likelyhood of stresses and damaging the chair.

Nigel

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35th message | this message only posted: 1 Jan 2019 15:38
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Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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At the moment I have gone for a sliding fit but not clear of the chairs. Pegs can easily be reduced to clear chairs if desired.
Nigel Brown wrote: Me, I'd be tempted to go for the slightly looser fit on the rail. If the chair grips the rail it can be quite difficult to feed the rail through, and I think there's more likelyhood of stresses and damaging the chair.

Nigel


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36th message | this message only posted: 1 Jan 2019 18:32
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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Stephen,

Unless I have got the wrong end of the stick you are making 3 point gauges for O-MF that will give automatic gauge widening. Assuming that to be the case then surely they need to be a snug fit on the rail ? If they are a loose fit the the amount of gauge widening will be different ( and variable ).

What measurements have you used for the distances between the pins along the axis of the rails ? This effects the amount of gauge widening produced for a given radius of curve. In EM for example my EMGS gauges have a longer 'span' than the DCC Concepts ones and therefore give different degrees of widening.

Rob


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37th message | this message only posted: 1 Jan 2019 20:09
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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No slack in the gauge but you don't have to force the issue. The distance between the inside of the short side outer peg and the inside of the long side outer pegs is 43 mm in both cases. The distance between the pegs on the long side is 53mm.

I think that a sliding fit which which does not grip the rail tightly is better because if it is tight it will  tend to make the rail sit up straight, once removed, the cant of the chairs may cause the rails to spring back and be under gauge, which is not what is wanted.

I have attached a photo of one of the gauges. Please note the extra holes are purely there as an aid for assembly with a jig to ensure the gauge is correct.

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