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page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Baffled beginners > 0-16.5 turnout
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                 0-16.5 turnout
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 19 Dec 2018 09:14
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Could someone please case an eye over this 0-16.5 turnout and critique please
I want a small but reasonable turnout for a small diorama for my locos (Peco Great little trains on Branchline chassis) As a basis I used an 00 V 4.5 template in conjunction with a Peco turnout plan & a piece of flexi track to get an idea of timber sizes and spacings, then just fiddled about with the number, size and spacings of timbers

Given the locos have decent 00 gauge wheels I may go for 00SF as a gauge, using code 100 rail as in my opinion code 75 looks too skinny. As for build process I guess it will have to be either copperclad or spiked construction

Thoughts as to both the design and method of building would be greatly appreciated

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Attachment: 0-16,5 A4.5.box (Downloaded 48 times)
 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 19 Dec 2018 10:56
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi John,

Don't use REA switches for narrow-gauge. You will get a shorter turnout with an easier radius using the straight switches. Try changing to a 9ft switch for your turnout instead of "A" -- template > switch settings... menu item, top of list.

Or save even more space by creating a shorter custom switch.

There are some sample 0-16.5 (0n30) templates available for downloading here:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=28&forum_id=10

Also some templates matching the Peco 0-16.5 turnouts can be downloaded here:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=2526&forum_id=10

cheers,

Martin.

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3rd message | this message only posted: 19 Dec 2018 16:32
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Martin

Thanks for the quick response, I am not necessarily looking for a direct replacement for a Peco turnout. I will print off a sample narrow gauge turnout and compare it with the one I have produced, also I will have a go with a 9' switch
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4th message | this message only posted: 20 Dec 2018 09:01
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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I have had time to have a further look at the templates and compared the 0n16.5 sample templates with Peco 016.5 flexi track. My conclusion is that the timber spacing is much wider and the timbers slightly longer, though with the Peco track being of crazy track format its slightly difficult to compare exactly.
In my version 2 plan I have adjusted the timbers for a better match with the Peco flexi track, but at the expense of not matching the set and stock gauge for the switch, the initial thought was to manually adjust the position of these when building the turnout. Or (which I probably will do) adjust the position of the timbers gradually to the tip of the vee, I could also include a version using a 9' switch, though I prefer my larger turnout to the looks of the more squat Peco design even though its about 30mm longer

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Attachment: 0-16,5 A4.5 v2.box (Downloaded 39 times)
 
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5th message | this message only posted: 20 Dec 2018 10:14
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi John,

If the 9ft switch makes the template shorter than you want, try a 12ft switch instead. It will make an easier radius than using the "A" switch.

What you have created is a 4mm/ft scale 00 gauge template with enlarged timbers.

Ideally as you are modelling in 7mm/ft scale it would be better to create a template in 7mm/ft scale. You can then use prototype sizes for the timbering, rail width, etc., and if you wish create a custom switch. Also the blade tips, tie-bar slot, etc., will fit the timbering.

There is a video showing how to create 7mm narrow-gauge templates and custom switches here:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=376&forum_id=1

Sorry I didn't post this link earlier (it's from 2008).

cheers,

Martin.

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6th message | this message only posted: 20 Dec 2018 13:05
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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I have had issues in replying, this is the third time
Thanks again Martin

I will give the 7 mm tutorial a go later, but initially what I am aiming for is initially a simple diorama comprising of a 2 road engine shed, initially designed as a stand alone diorama to display my 2 locos. The turnout will have to match Peco's 0 16.5 flexitrack, the diorama my in the future be part of a small layout. So as far as the baseboard is concerned will be designed to be dropped into a larger board

The rail profile will be Peco's code 100 flatbottom, firstly to match the flexitrack, but also to my eye looks far better than a smaller profile

I have I have tried attaching a file using a 12' switch and adjusted timbers to match Peco's flexitrack, but for some reason the file is too large and will not upload ?

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7th message | this message only posted: 20 Dec 2018 19:50
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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You could go the whole hog and use either code 82 or 100 Karlgarin rail.
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8th message | this message only posted: 21 Dec 2018 08:27
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Stephen

I have tried code 82 & 75 in the past, but even though I used ST base plates and chairs the rail profile looked too small.

Not aware of Karlgarin rail at all

Had thought of perhaps using S scale rail and chairs owing to 4mm looking too small and 7 mm too large

I have some very old Peco wire Indvidualay products, failing that I will use Peco track spikes
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9th message | this message only posted: 21 Dec 2018 10:50
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Stephen

Looked at Karlgarin rail, to be quite honest these codes are available from Peco and C&L
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10th message | this message only posted: 21 Dec 2018 13:09
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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Codes might be but and a big but the rail head width and dimensions other than just the rail height matter too.

Rail Spikes try EDM/NGTrains they sell Micro Engineering spikes -much finer
Plates - Palatine Models sell etched Nickel Silver ones designed to fit Karlgarin code 82.

Hayfield wrote: Stephen

Looked at Karlgarin rail, to be quite honest these codes are available from Peco and C&L


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11th message | this message only posted: 22 Dec 2018 08:56
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Stephen

Thanks for the information, much appreciated and some items would be well worth exploring if the project expands

I thought that the code of the rail was a set standard within manufacturing tolerances, but if there is a difference then it would be worth looking at using it. I will compare the sizes

Secondly to start off with its a small diorama using with Peco 0-16.5 flexitrack which uses Peco's standard code 100 flatbottom rail.

The Peco spikes I have are quite old and for my purposes a bit long and possibly overscale but give a good visual representation to match their own track, and for a turnout with about 20 timbers its not much of a chore to cut the spikes down a bit.

I joined the 7mm NGA for a time but cannot remember if code 100 bullhead rail was an option and if there was any chair options available ? An alternative as I mentioned, might be the old Peco wire based fastenings, these may give me a viable alternative just to have something rather than nothing

As at the moment I only need 1 turnout I will use parts in my "old track building parts box"
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12th message | this message only posted: 22 Dec 2018 14:15
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Stephen

I have had a measure plus realised that there is a 4mm comparison on the data sheet. As the Karlgarin has larger head and feet, the code 100 may well be worth a try if I decide to enlarge the model. Thanks
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13th message | this message only posted: 22 Dec 2018 14:31
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from:
Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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As far as I am aware the rail code number just tells you the overall rail height in thousands of an inch and infers nothing more.
Regards
Tony.

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14th message | this message only posted: 22 Dec 2018 15:00
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Tony W wrote: As far as I am aware the rail code number just tells you the overall rail height in thousands of an inch and infers nothing more.Hi Tony,

The NMRA do publish a standard for each rail code (flat-bottom only), but how closely it matches current supplies I have no idea:

 https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/rp-15.1.pdf

cheers,

Martin.

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15th message | this message only posted: 22 Dec 2018 19:02
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi John,

In Templot try using the Real->Rails->Rail Section Data menu option and use Richard (Karlgarin's) figures from this link



Do the calculation from his stated section data for head width in your chosen scale ratio and create a turnout with it. It looks much better than skinny rail does :D If you doubt the logic look at some pics of prototype NG railways and see how much wider the rail looks compared to the track gauge.


Rob


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16th message | this message only posted: 23 Dec 2018 08:27
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from:
Hayfield
United Kingdom

 

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Tony, Martin and Rob

Thank you all for the suggestions, normally on our sister web I am suggesting ideas like yourselves and Stephen are suggesting, in this instance I will be using items I have to hand to build one turnout and what matches my existing flexitrack.

I have found to my own sense of perspective, code 75 whilst it might be correct for the lightest of gauges looks far too small, code 82 being much the same in volume even though the Karlgarin rail has a thicker head, as I am using Pecos GVT Tram and the Hunslet tank (I have the Fletcher Jennings to build) plus I do have a couple of larger bogie coaches in part and to build piles, so as they are quite chunkey the larger rail of code 100 has better looks

Its a pity there are not chairs which both fit code 100 FB but are larger than 4emm but smaller than 7 mm scales, still that's life
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