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page trail:  Templot Club > Forums > Templot talk > Diamond-crossings through a turnout
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                 Diamond-crossings through a turnout
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 31 Mar 2019 19:18
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Geoff asked about creating complex pointwork where a line runs across a turnout in a series of diamond-crossings:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3402&forum_id=1

This is a not uncommon situation, so I thought it might make a suitable subject for a tutorial video, showing some of the more advanced functions in Templot. That was before I realised how much time that would take to make. :?

 Anyway, this is by way of introduction.



Creating that divides into several stages:

1. the easy bit. Create the basic alignments by overlaying normal templates:





2. the straightforward bit. Create diamond-crossings at the intersections:





3. the tedious bit. Separate out each K-crossing and V-crossing as a partial template:



There are 2 diamond-crossings, so that means 4 half-diamond templates, each having 2 K-crossings and 1 V-crossing, so that makes a total of 12 partial templates:





4. the creative bit. Extend them to link together, ensure all crossings are checked, and modify the check rail ends to clear:







5. the conundrum bit. Shove the timbers to support all the crossings in the correct place:




I will be splitting up each stage as a separate video in the interests of sanity. Watch this space.

6. the difficult bit. Design the chairing based on the known chairing practice of the required prototype. Over to you for that.

7. the sparky bit. Allow for isolation gaps around all the V-crossings (not needed for the K-crossings).

8. the challenging bit. Build it. :)

cheers,

Martin.

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2nd message | this message only posted: 31 Mar 2019 23:42
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from:
Geoff Lines
Near St Albans, United Kingdom

 

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Hello Martin -- many thanks for doing that; much appreciated. I'll have a thorough look at it later -- it'll help move things along at a quicker rate. My method was long and laborious and not precise enough.

I realise that the sleeper and chair layout will be equally complicated and difficult as the track plan, but I'm not worried about the build -- it'll just take along time!

I'm just starting a redraw for Holborn -- not what I wanted to do, but I feel it's the only way I can achieve the correct geometry for the 'short' switches that feature in the complicated layout at Holborn in its original form.

Regards

Geoff
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3rd message | this message only posted: 1 Apr 2019 07:28
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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A similar arrangement has been built in P4 on St Mary Hoo by Simon Glidewell, the build starts here

http://www.westernthunder.co.uk/index.php?threads/st-mary-hoo-p4-southern-region-third-rail.4198/page-2

and continues off and on through the thread. You may need to sign up to Western Thunder to get the pictures at full size.

He used baulks under the crossing rather than timbering.

Phil
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4th message | this message only posted: 2 Apr 2019 07:02
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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The Southern certainly seemed to have a penchant for this type of arrangement, usually brought about be the lack/cost of available land (I assume).

One thing I'd like to see in Templot is the ability to alter the actual angle of the end of rails (check or wing). At the moment there are a few things I have had to fudge on the latest project. Doesn't affect ability to build it but it would be nice rather than essential.

One other problem is that the maps are scanned and sometimes folds distort the image.


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5th message | this message only posted: 2 Apr 2019 11:21
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Stephen Freeman wrote: One thing I'd like to see in Templot is the ability to alter the actual angle of the end of rails (check or wing). At the moment there are a few things I have had to fudge on the latest project.Hi Stephen,

Yes, you can do that. I have answered with a bit of video:

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=m3nrRymDOeSvsWfXoQojcg2

in a separate topic, see:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3407&forum_id=1

cheers,

Martin.

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6th message | this message only posted: 4 Apr 2019 18:35
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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The first part of the video is now at:

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=eBhzi_rOhOiVu934ox6mDQ2


Martin.


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7th message | this message only posted: 4 Apr 2019 18:36
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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clip2

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8th message | this message only posted: 4 Apr 2019 19:51
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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As you all know, over the years I have tried several different tutorial and video formats for Templot, in the hope of finding something which doesn't take hours and hours to create.

So far without much success.

Video saves writing lengthy text explanations (which few folks are willing to read), but it does take ages to do the frame editing to make it run smoothly without long pauses, mouse fumbles and mis-clicks. Which often means re-recording bits of it, and trying to get them to match in smoothly. It's all rather stressful.

There are some slide-based alternative formats to video which use CSS browser animations, which makes them much easier to edit and update. But unfortunately they can't record the Templot mouse actions, which rather rules them out for our purpose.

It occurred to me that IF (big IF) I could assume users were familiar with the basics of Templot, I could simply delete most of an FBR video, and create in effect the equivalent of a slide-based presentation, but one which could still contain mouse actions where needed. Saving hours of editing time in the process. :)

So I have tried that for the first part of this latest video. I will await comments before doing the next part. Thanks.

Online at:

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=eBhzi_rOhOiVu934ox6mDQ2

(To move backwards through the video, CLICK on the timeline at the bottom. Do not DRAG the slider, otherwise you will cancel the interactive pausing. Why are there always so many niggles with online video?)

Or also attached below in FBR format (for better image quality) to open in the Templot video player.

(For the latter you can use the space bar instead of mouse clicks if you prefer.)

(The FBR file size is so much reduced in this format -- it's only 840KB -- that I'm not sure it is worth bothering with an SK5 loader.)

cheers,

Martin. 

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Attachment: diamonds_across_turnout_part1.fbr (Downloaded 16 times)
 
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9th message | this message only posted: 4 Apr 2019 20:40
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

I think that is pretty good and can imagine the savings in time and effort for you. I can imagine it would confuse people who were not familiar with the basics of Templot but as you have said in the past it is difficult to know what level to pitch these things at.

As an explanation of a point( :?) or series of points it is much easier to follow than line after line of written explanation. Maybe you would have to do some 'beginner videos' to get people up to speed.

Rob


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10th message | this message only posted: 4 Apr 2019 20:47
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from:
JFS
United Kingdom

 

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I think it is excellent and an easy format to follow - perhaps ven better than a complete video which needs to be actively paused for the trickly bits, whereas a show like this can be run at the viewers own pace. If it saves on production work then that is a double bonus - not least if that then means that more of these can be made availble.
I agree with Rob that beginners would need to be directed elsewhere. Equally, I hope a beginner would not be starting with this particular formation!

Best Wishes.
Howard
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11th message | this message only posted: 5 Apr 2019 07:32
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Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Martin

I have to agree with Howard, this format works very well and easier to follow, as you don't need to pause it to read the various bits, I normally need to go back slightly to get the bit of text I missed.

If this speeds up the process for the user and you as the compiler, it's great.

cheers

Phil.
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12th message | this message only posted: 5 Apr 2019 10:19
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Raymond
Bexhill-on-sea, United Kingdom

 

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I found it easy to follow and quite intuitive so for somene with a basic knowledge of Templot it should prove a great help.

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13th message | this message only posted: 5 Apr 2019 16:52
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Alan Kettlewell
North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

 

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Works well on my Samsung tablet, quick to do, easy to follow and I like that you can control the speed.

Cheers ... Alan
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14th message | this message only posted: 5 Apr 2019 17:00
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from:
John Shelley
St Ciers Sur Gironde 33820, France



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That format's a good idea Martin.  Works well and easy to follow.

John from St Ciers

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15th message | this message only posted: 5 Apr 2019 19:49
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Thanks for the positive comments. :)

I will get on with the next part in a similar style.

In the meantime I have updated part 1 with some additional highlighting. I can't make up my mind whether it is worth doing or not:

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=eBhzi_rOhOiVu934ox6mDQ2

cheers,

Martin.

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16th message | this message only posted: 5 Apr 2019 21:08
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,
I don't think the spotlight effect is required. If you couldn't see the yellow pointer in the first version there isn't much hope you will be capable of actually making the track :D

Rob


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17th message | this message only posted: 6 Apr 2019 07:44
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from:
Godfrey Earnshaw
Crawley, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin
Very pretty but I agree with Rob, not much point.

Godders
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18th message | this message only posted: 6 Apr 2019 07:57
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from:
mikewturner
 

 

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Hi Martin

I think this new format is more than adequate and if it saves you time and effort even better still. Agree with others that spotlight effect doesn't add much.

Regards

Mike
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19th message | this message only posted: 6 Apr 2019 09:04
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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The actual process is much how I did it for myself (a slight variation but same in practice) even more fun when you have 2 tracks crossing with one of the turnout common crossings in one of the diamonds.
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20th message | this message only posted: 6 Apr 2019 09:54
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

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Thanks for the further comments. I think I will leave out most of the spotlighting, it's not adding much.

One aspect I'm never sure about in creating tutorials, is whether to show the full "official" process which learners need to know about, or whether to assume they know all that and show the actual tricks and tips which I would normally use myself.

For example this sequence of several clicks:

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=oJrAzulKiaOAQNTascPNew2

can be replaced by one click on a template, and press C on the keyboard:



Both methods get what is wanted -- a short bit of untimbered plain track in the control template.

But to use one of the original design templates for that purpose might suggest that it is necessary to use that specific one, rather than just any template on the screen which happens to be handy. And it is necessary to know the full sequence for the times when what you want isn't handy.

A picture is said to be worth a thousand words, but sometimes only words will do, when you need to explain why rather than just what.

Which method would you normally use?

cheers,

Martin.

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21st message | this message only posted: 6 Apr 2019 12:09
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from:
Stephen Freeman
Sandbach, United Kingdom



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In this instance I don't think I would consider using anything but copy to Control, it's a lot quicker. Having said that I'd probably use it (copy to Control) from the storage box, as it's usually  much easier to find the template you want to copy.

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22nd message | this message only posted: 6 Apr 2019 14:44
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from:
Geoff Lines
Near St Albans, United Kingdom

 

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Hello Martin -- after a distraction, I can now get back to redrawing the Holborn trackwork.

I endorse the comments regarding the video you've set up and shall be following it in detail when I've reconstructed the layout, hopefully with the correct clearances for the short switches this time, and it will enable the correct detailing of the K crossings in the congested areas.

Many thanks

Geoff
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