Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 3458Catch/Trap points
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posted: 12 Jul 2019 16:20

from:

richard_t
 
Nr. Spalding, South Holland - United Kingdom

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Hi

Does anyone know the name of the kind of catch/trap points where they split on both sides - I'm sure that's wrong! A bit like this:

499_121120_040000000.png499_121120_040000000.png

Also any links to prototype photographs would be useful.

Thanks.

posted: 12 Jul 2019 17:01

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Hi Richard,

They are called "wide-to-gauge catch points".

Picture on the right here:

 http://warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrms1710.htm

And on the left here:

 http://signalboxes.com/beighton-train-depot.php

and:

800px-WHR_Cae_Pawb_trap_points.jpg800px-WHR_Cae_Pawb_trap_points.jpg
CC BY 3.0   Herbert Ortner - Own work

A vehicle is very quickly arrested by getting the wheels jammed across the switch rails. They are used as traps where forward clearance is too tight for conventional catch points and/or the vehicle must be kept in line.

There are only two positions - open or closed - as on a conventional lever, but with separate stretcher bars working in opposite directions.


Similar looking traps, but very different, are "double-acting catch points" like this:

file.php?id=4206file.php?id=4206
linked from Scalefour Soc.

Typically used on London Underground middle turn-back roads where you don't want to divert the vehicle to one side or the other. Note in this case that the switch rails converge as part of a turnout, and don't jam the wheels -- they just fall off in the dirt. Less damage to the track. In this case there are three positions - closed left, closed right, or open.

It is possible I have got the names the wrong way round. Sources are inconsistent. Anyone care to confirm?

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 12 Jul 2019 19:11

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Brechin Station, Caledonian.

http://dev.caledonian.daniel-waghorn.com/uploads/27356326_1763981270332753_13314877166994260_o.jpg

Jim.

posted: 13 Jul 2019 03:39

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
Brechin Station, Caledonian.

http://dev.caledonian.daniel-waghorn.com/uploads/27356326_1763981270332753_13314877166994260_o.jpg

Jim.
Thanks Jim, that's a great photo.

A typical use for double-acting catch points, trapping the exit from a middle run-round loop.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jul 2019 06:18

from:

Dave Summers
 
Urchfont, Devizes - United Kingdom

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And you've seen it before here !
Well worth repeating though.
Dave

posted: 13 Jul 2019 08:23

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Dave Summers wrote:
And you've seen it before here !
Well worth repeating though.
 I suspected that I might have posted it before. :D  Put it down to advancing years. :D

Jim.

posted: 13 Jul 2019 12:57

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Dave Summers wrote:
And you've seen it before here !
Hi Dave,

In our defence I would point out that the first photograph was in black & white, and the second one is in colour! And 6 years is a long time. :)

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jul 2019 15:23

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
In our defence I would point out that the first photograph was in black & white, and the second one is in colour! And 6 years is a long time. :)
Martin,

That means that it's a fair bet that the picture was taken post WW2 and all the infrastucture is still pure Caledonian - lower quadrant double lattice signals,  straight switch interlaced pointwork and coverings over rodding cranks, facing locks, etc.   I do remember doing a survey up and down the Caledonian line to Oban in the 1960s and the infrastructure was still pure Caledonian.  I think the first bit of modernisation was the upgrading of the rock fall signals in the Pass of Brander and that was probably late 60s/early 70s.

[Later]

I found a picture of the Caledonian rock fall signals taken in 1959

http://tomato.to/photo/31182059517/falls-of-cruachan-near-rockfall-signals-viewed-from-a-train-for-oban-11-8-59

[and later still :D]  I've just noticed another typically Scottish trait as well - the number of church spires and buildings in evidence close to the station.   Victorian Scotland had the habit of genetaing many versions of presbyterianism,  each with its own buildings. :D

You can check off the kirks on this map

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.7314&lon=-2.6579&layers=168&b=1

Jim.

Jim.
Last edited on posted: 13 Jul 2019 15:55 by Jim Guthrie
13 Jul 2019 15:55

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
That means that it's a fair bet that the picture was taken post WW2
Hi Jim,

But the text with the B&W version says "... ... view from the bridge taken not too long after the rebuilding ... ... in 1894".

I suspect the colourising has been done in Photoshop, it looks a bit odd in places. If it was an original colour pic there seems to be no reason to have posted it in B&W.

Some of these colourising programs are now very good, but the actual colours used are entirely down to the user. I've seen a nice blue bus with "Midland Red" written on the side.

It is going to make for some interesting modelling arguments in future.

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 13 Jul 2019 16:32

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Jim Guthrie wrote:
That means that it's a fair bet that the picture was taken post WW2
Hi Jim,

But the text with the B&W version says "... ... view from the bridge taken not too long after the rebuilding ... ... in 1894".

I suspect the colourising has been done in Photoshop, it looks a bit odd in places. If it was an original colour pic there seems to be no reason to have posted it in B&W.

Some of these colourising programs are now very good, but the actual colours used are entirely down to the user. I've seen a nice blue bus with "Midland Red" written on the side.

It is going to make for some interesting modelling arguments in future.

Martin,

Our own version of fake news. :D   I've had a quick look at Brechin on Google maps to have a look at the churches ( :D ) and the local stone seems to be predominantly red sandstone,  so they have picked the correct general colour for the buildings - certainly the large ones.

Jim.

posted: 13 Jul 2019 17:17

from:

Dave Summers
 
Urchfont, Devizes - United Kingdom

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Gents
I think the newly posted picture is a coloured photo rather than colour photo. The two are identical and I suspect hand colouring of the coloured one.
Dave

posted: 13 Jul 2019 20:32

from:

Andrew Barrowman
 
USA

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Jim Guthrie wrote:

Martin,

Our own version of fake news. :D   I've had a quick look at Brechin on Google maps to have a look at the churches ( :D ) and the local stone seems to be predominantly red sandstone,  so they have picked the correct general colour for the buildings - certainly the large ones.

Jim.
Hi Jim,

I spent quite a lot of time in Brechin. As I recall the local sandstone was more light brown/pink and quite mixed. A bit different from the red/orange sandstone that was not uncommon in the Glasgow area. Mind you that was a long time ago. There was still some steam action near Edzell.

Cheers,
Andy

posted: 15 Jul 2019 08:56

from:

richard_t
 
Nr. Spalding, South Holland - United Kingdom

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Thanks to everyone for the information. Given the name, I could also find there's thread on here already. So all very useful  :thumb:

On Manchester Central, each set of platforms had a release road (A through to D), and only the D road had a wide-to-gauge catch point, the others having "normal" catch points. I wonder if it was due to platforms 8/9 and the D road being built on a timber extension to the main station.

Can anyone point me in the direction of any photographs or drawings of the stretcher bar arrangements?
Edit: Found one here

Thanks again.
Last edited on 15 Jul 2019 09:03 by richard_t
posted: 15 Jul 2019 11:17

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
You can check off the kirks on this map

http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=56.7314&lon=-2.6579&layers=168&b=1

Hi Jim,

The NLS has a beautiful earlier 1852 map of Brechin Station:

 http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=20&lat=56.7316&lon=-2.6525&layers=56&b=1

and an 1862 map (not published until 1896):

 http://maps.nls.uk/view/74478871#zoom=6&lat=8583&lon=13920&layers=BT

cheers,

Martin.



posted: 15 Jul 2019 12:04

from:

Jim Guthrie
 
United Kingdom

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I note from the maps you point to that most of the churches seemed to be established by the mid-Victorian period, the only change I can see is that the slaughter house to the east of the station had become quite a fine looking church in the later map I pointed to. I n ote also a music hall in the earlier maps and I assume there were plenty of public houses since there was a temperance hall as well. :-)

Also interesting is the plethora of church manses (equivalent to a vicarage in England) which seem to outnumber the churches. :-) On the later map I point to, look at the gaggle of manses on Park Road to the north of the station.

Interesting that it has a 12th century cathedral in name only since it is a Church of Scotland building and can't be considered as such, so Brechin can't be a city. :-)

You never know where catch/trap point discussions will take you. :-)

Jim.
Last edited on 15 Jul 2019 12:05 by Jim Guthrie
posted: 15 Jul 2019 12:17

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Jim Guthrie wrote:
You never know where catch/trap point discussions will take you. :-)
Hi Jim,

Or where they will arrive from -- thanks to Richard for finding the earlier links, which I had forgotten all about. :(

cheers,

Martin.

posted: 15 Jul 2019 18:03

from:

John Palmer
 
 

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richard_t wrote:
Can anyone point me in the direction of any photographs or drawings of the stretcher bar arrangements?
Edit: Found one here
An interesting arrangement showing a pair of cranks (at least one an accommodating crank - why?) being used to operate the further switch tongue.  Each tongue fitted with its own detection connection, as you would expect.

The picture helps to illustrate the problems involved in independent bolting of separate tongues where facing point locks are required.  This is a difficulty to which I drew attention in the previous thread dealing with the wtg trap at Brechin, where apparently fpls were required for each route through the trap.  It occurs to me that one possible solution to the problem would be a midway bolt lock inserted into the rod run, but I have no idea whether such an approach would have been acceptable.  Would it?



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