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                 3-way Handling
     
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1st message | this message only posted: 5 Aug 2019 14:59
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from:
Terry Schroeyens
 

 

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Hello again,

I have tried a basic 3-way turnout in straight track just to see how it works. Making it the control seems tricky as it is made of multiple templates, so how to control the positioning of a branch or return curve? I tried positioning the peg but it didn't help. I also tried grouping by prefix tag but that didn't help making the whole thing the control. I did manage to add MS track with F4 but strangely only 1 rail appeared on the timbers, is this normal? I tried roaming but only some of the 3-way templates moved :shock:. BTW, 3-ways don't show up in the sketchboard.
The 3-ways are based on a B V-8 turnout. Since the two facing 3-ways are not symmetrical, how do you get 2 crossover TS roads to meet?

Return curves never have timbers on the curve - why is this? I tried the timbering options without success. Also, how do you get two return curves to meet from opposite directions.

Regards Terry





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Attachment: Tandem_2019_08_05_1641_39.box (Downloaded 5 times)
 
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2nd message | this message only posted: 5 Aug 2019 16:32
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Terry Schroeyens wrote: I have tried a basic 3-way turnout in straight track just to see how it works. Making it the control seems tricky as it is made of multiple templates, so how to control the positioning of a branch or return curve? I tried positioning the peg but it didn't help. I also tried grouping by prefix tag but that didn't help making the whole thing the control. I did manage to add MS track with F4 but strangely only 1 rail appeared on the timbers, is this normal? I tried roaming but only some of the 3-way templates moved :shock:. BTW, 3-ways don't show up in the sketchboard.
The 3-ways are based on a B V-8 turnout. Since the two facing 3-ways are not symmetrical, how do you get 2 crossover TS roads to meet?

Return curves never have timbers on the curve - why is this? I tried the timbering options without success. Also, how do you get two return curves to meet from opposite directions.
Hi Terry,

A lot of questions there -- most of which could be answered by reading the notes and my replies here. :)

Firstly, return curves. That's a bug which I introduced inadvertently in the latest program update, as I mentioned in my previous reply. Sorry about that. It will be fixed in the next update, but in the meantime you can get the sleepers back by making it the control template and then clicking the real > timbering > rolled-in timbering > rolled-in length sleepered menu item.

(The reason for rolling the rails in a return curve is to interlace the timbering at the V-crossing exit, so avoiding the need to do a lot of timber shoving. The same trick can be used on a branch track, but in that case you must do it yourself, Templot doesn't do it for you. Rolling rails is CTRL+F4 mouse action -- it works only for plain track, so you may need to split turnout templates first. It's useful if you have pegged a branch track onto the TMINP position -- in which case you don't want the rolled-in sleepers.)



Correct. Formations comprised of multiple partial templates, such as a 3-way tandem turnout, do not show on the sketchboard in diagram mode. They do show in detail mode. For a neat result in diagram mode, you can temporarily overlay plain track templates, which can be kept as unused templates in the storage box until needed. It's all been explained here several times, I can't re-write everything in every reply. I know it's frustrating that the Companion is so incomplete and that 20 years of ad-hoc web site updates have resulted in a complete mess, but I'm doing my best to get it sorted out.



3-way tandem turnouts are not for beginners. Most of what you need to know is explained on this page:

 http://templot.com/companion/3_way_tandem_turnouts.php

Tandems are comprised of multiple partial templates, so you can't treat them as a single template. If you want to roam a tandem, ideally you should do that first on the starting turnout, and then create the tandem in it's final position. You can however move and align a tandem as a unit, by grouping its component templates and then using the notch-linking functions. The prefix tag allows for easy grouping.

To add a branch track, return curve, crossover, etc., to a tandem, first click on one of the two underlying turnout templates, as required. If it's difficult to click the right one, hold down the SHIFT key and then click on the name labels instead of the track, until you get the right one.

1. Delete it the control template.

2. Make the branch track or whatever.

3. Now immediately click the tools > make 3-way tandem turnout > reset derived partial template menu item. Before you do anything else.

This is important, otherwise some parts of the template and/or subsequent templates will be missing, as you found.

But if extending exit track on the the existing partial template, for example with F4 or adding approach track with F3, do this only after splitting it from the turnout.

The make tandem functions are a recent addition to Templot and still to some extent experimental. Previously it was necessary to create all the partial templates yourself -- which you can still do of course if you need a custom tandem of some sort.

cheers,

Martin.

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3rd message | this message only posted: 5 Aug 2019 20:22
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
I think there was a hint of cabin fever in my previous post.

I have since been out for a pleasant evening walk, for the first time in a couple of weeks. Feeling much better now. I also ate far more blackberries than is good for me. There is going to be a glut of them in these parts this year. In fact there is a few pie's worth coming along nicely at the end of my garden nature reserve. :)



All set for Brexit?

cheers,

Martin.

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4th message | this message only posted: 5 Aug 2019 23:20
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Eating all the blackberries now won't keep you over the winter you know :D There has been a rapid increase in the applications for allotment places round our way - I wonder why ?

Rob


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5th message | this message only posted: 5 Aug 2019 23:50
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from:
Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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Martin,

The blackberries around Bristol area are nowhere near ready to eat. I've been keeping an eye on them when I take the dog for a walk on our common. What's different up your way? :?:?

Jim.
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6th message | this message only posted: 6 Aug 2019 00:18
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Jim Guthrie wrote: The blackberries around Bristol area are nowhere near ready to eat. I've been keeping an eye on them when I take the dog for a walk on our common. What's different up your way? :?:?Hi Jim,

The same here for the vast majority. But the brambles hereabouts are so loaded with them that the law of averages means 0.1% are already ripe. The sandy soil here seems to suit them.

One area of land which is smothered in them was 60 years ago the settling ponds for a sand quarry washery. It's scheduled to become the works compound for the construction of a fish-pass on the weir in the Severn, so the blackberries' days on there are numbered. No doubt they will soon re-establish themselves afterwards. Info here:

 https://www.unlockingthesevern.co.uk/

cheers,

Martin.

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7th message | this message only posted: 6 Aug 2019 05:12
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from:
Bernard Haste
 

 

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I visited the Bure valley railway last week and found a 15" gauge three way point within Aylsham station confines.

Never seen a 15" gauge three way point before.

Bernard
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8th message | this message only posted: 6 Aug 2019 07:57
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Bernard,

Very diplomatic reminder there. :)

I haven't forgotten your metre-gauge tandem. Just need to find a few hours spare to do it. Hopefully this week.

cheers,

Martin.

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9th message | this message only posted: 6 Aug 2019 17:00
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from:
Bernard Haste
 

 

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Sorry Martin,

That wasn`t meant as a reminder. I was really surprised to find a 15" gauge three way point and thought it really unusual. For track addicts I thought it might be of interest.
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10th message | this message only posted: 6 Aug 2019 17:08
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Bernard Haste wrote: I visited the Bure valley railway last week and found a 15" gauge three way point within Aylsham station confines.

Never seen a 15" gauge three way point before.

Bernard
Hello Bernard,
Did you take a picture we can see ?

Rob


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11th message | this message only posted: 6 Aug 2019 18:30
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from:
Bernard Haste
 

 

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I took pictures but have not yet downloaded them from the camera.

Please bear with me.

Bernard
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12th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2019 09:21
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from:
Terry Schroeyens
 

 

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Hi Martin,

I would appreciate your looking at the 3-way in the attached. I watched your video but it ends with "adjustments may be necessary" and I don't want to play around with the 3-way in case I wreck it. A further video would be very helpful to explain how to do the adjustments.
I think the V crossing needs adjusting and the first stretcher bar seems to be missing although there is a thin line.

If you could explain what needs doing, I am willing to try it myself.

Thanks,

Terry

PS. I will be away for a week so there's no rush.


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13th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2019 09:49
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Terry Schroeyens wrote: Hi Martin,

I would appreciate your looking at the 3-way in the attached. I watched your video but it ends with "adjustments may be necessary" and I don't want to play around with the 3-way in case I wreck it. A further video would be very helpful to explain how to do the adjustments.
I think the V crossing needs adjusting and the first stretcher bar seems to be missing although there is a thin line.
Hi Terry,

I'm not sure what you did there, but I think you reset the derived settings on the partial templates themselves. That function is intended to be used on the subsequently created templates, not on the partial templates. Perhaps I need to change the wording on that.

This is what it looks like if you just do make tandem turnout:



All it needs is tidying up the check rails, plus the usual timber shoving.

p.s. which video did you watch? There isn't one (yet) for make tandem, unless my memory is even worse than I thought. :( The video is for a custom tandem, i.e. when you don't use the make tandem tool.

edit: It is worse, you meant this one:

 https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=KA3AFzb5P7AEkiMqzNa_LA2

I don't remember making that. Sorry about that. Now utterly depressed. :(



I will make a new video or an infographic for make tandem soon, and how to do the typical adjustments which may be needed.

cheers,

Martin.

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14th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2019 09:57
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from:
Terry Schroeyens
 

 

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Thanks Martin,

The video is in http://templot.com/companion/3_way_tandem_turnouts.php which you referenced above.

Terry
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15th message | this message only posted: 15 Aug 2019 11:41
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Thanks Terry.

I have revised the wording:



I'm so glad nothing in Templot is safety-critical -- I would never sleep at night wondering how my words might be misinterpreted. :(

cheers,

Martin.

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