Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 9 Aug 2019 21:14 from: Martin Wynne
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For years I've intended to provide a quicker way to link between two existing templates. For some situations a full transition curve isn't needed, and a plain tangential boundary between two curves or a curve and straight is acceptable. For example within yards and depots. I've finally got round to doing something about it -- prompted by Richard's recent request for such an option in a loco shed. It will be in the next program update. I've made a quick scruffy video: http://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=-yIZ2yOMvSRJDrQNe4S7zw2 But when you do want a smooth transitioned link for running lines, see the usual method here: http://templot.com/companion/link_existing.php cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 9 Aug 2019 21:26 from: Rob Manchester
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Hi Martin, That looks likely to be a very useful addition to Templot. Look forward to it soon. While not the way you would prefer people to use Templot I can see a lot of 'beginners' using it to join up templates scattered over the workpad - in a similar way to joining up the turnout 'paper' templates used to be done by many on the baseboards. That is assuming the beginner can find the menu and recognize the terminology  Rob |
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posted: 10 Aug 2019 00:58 from: John Palmer click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Very useful addition to the toolkit - looking forward to using this when the update comes around. Thank you, Martin. |
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posted: 11 Aug 2019 13:03 from: Martin Wynne
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Thanks for the comments.  I've taken this a bit further, and included automatic trimming of the background template. It can be undone if not wanted using undo changes. Also the start position for a fillet radius can be selected with the peg, CAD-style. Here's a bit more scruff video: http://flashbackconnect.com/Default.aspx?id=vbiGFs70bYVMs9Ul78fvnA2 cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 11 Aug 2019 13:11 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin. That really will be a useful tool, thank you! |
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posted: 11 Aug 2019 17:44 from: Jim Guthrie
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No more sidings with transitions.  Jim. |
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posted: 11 Aug 2019 18:53 from: Tony W
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Useful indeed. So much quicker than the previous method of adjusting curve radii manually and zooming in to find the tangent point, gives precise alignment every time. Regards Tony. |
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posted: 11 Aug 2019 20:05 from: Martin Wynne
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Tony W wrote: Useful indeed. So much quicker than the previous method of adjusting curve radii manually and zooming in to find the tangent point, gives precise alignment every time.Hi Tony, The previous method was actually to leave a slight gap between the tangents! And then use the make transition function to create a nice smooth connection: http://templot.com/companion/link_existing.php I'm hoping that method won't be forgotten, leading to a lot of Templot layouts with train-set style tangential connections even on running lines. Unless used with prototypical radii, they don't look good. There is actually a way now to create tangential connections, but it is so counter-intuitive that I have hardly ever dared to mention it. First use the make diamond-crossing at intersection function. Delete the unwanted half-diamond. Convert the other half-diamond to a turnout, and change its V-crossing to generic. Add a short length of approach track. Then make plain track on the external geometrical radius: 2_111454_080000000.png  To adjust the radius, you customize the vee rail length. The new tangential function should be a bit faster than that. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 12 Aug 2019 17:02 from: Martin Wynne
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Rob Manchester wrote: That is assuming the beginner can find the menu and recognize the terminologyHi Rob, I've been thinking about that. Now that I've added the automatic trimming of the target template it is very similar in use to the make transition function, for creating links between existing templates. I think it would be helpful to use the word "link" on the menu, and group it with the transition function: 2_121151_340000000.png  At least until I think better of it. Hmm. I always have trouble with the words. Not just because of their meanings, but because once I have settled on something, and it is included in countless screenshots and videos, changing it later becomes almost impossible.  cheer, Martin. |
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posted: 12 Aug 2019 17:08 from: Rob Manchester
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Martin, Yes, that is better, in my view. Rob |
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posted: 13 Aug 2019 11:34 from: Kenilworth59
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Hi Martin I too am looking forward to the next version which will contain the tangential link as I'm sure having struggled with transition curves in my yards, it will solve my poor attempts of aligning to the map background. With that in mind I thought I would have a practice with the alternative you mentioned if only to learn more about Templot rather than using the method in the meantime. I successfully made a curve (having remembered to move the peg to the Fine Point (FP, CTRL+4) before turning the turnout into a Generic one) but then realised I did not understand how to make it of a different radius. While then trying to understand the positioning of the turnout I found I had further questions. Can you enlighten me? I've included my workings for one curve with the original turnout to compare its positions to that of the curve. I can see that the turnout is positioned with its Deflection Point (DP) being aligned to the intersection of the straights' centre lines and that by making the turnout Generic, there is no entry straight into the V-crossing but the exit road would be the same curvature as the main road ie, straight. Hence I would expect that the curve would start at the tangential point to the FP - but no, it appears to be at the TEXITP. I assume then that the other end of the curve (where the notch ends up) is just twice the radial length of the DP to the TEXITP from the TEXITP and not a specific position in the turnout. So have I assembled it wrong? I have a feeling I am close to understanding but need a nudge. Thanks in anticipation. Paul PS. Having got to the end I realised that perhaps I need to move the TEXITP further from the FP so tried and failed having used CTL+F12. |
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| Attachment: attach_2879_3477_Alt-Tang-3mm.box 122 | |||
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posted: 13 Aug 2019 12:35 from: Martin Wynne
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Kenilworth59 wrote:With that in mind I thought I would have a practice with the alternative you mentionedHi Paul, Are you sure about that? I hope you have plenty of coffee handy. (One thing I forgot to mention is that using the external geometrical radius works only for regular diamond-crossings. i.e. both roads straight, or both roads curved at the same radius and direction. If you create an irregular diamond (differing radii), the only option is to use the internal geometric radius instead. In which case there is no way to change the radius created.) But your example is all straight, so the external geometric works. It is created tangential to the diverging road at the TVJP* (CTRL-6) position. So the only way to change the radius is to move that position: 1. increase the approach length (F3) by plenty, otherwise the external geometric menu item will be disabled. 2. go to real > V-crossing options > customize V-crossing > vee rail... menu item. 3. change the number of timbers spanned and the spacing of them to create the required TVJP. In your example it is size 3. Try for example increasing the number of timbers for size 3, to say 20. Use CTRL-6 to see where the curve will end. The external geometric radius is shown at the bottom of the template data in the info panel, so you can see if it is suitable before creating it. As you can see, it is not really a practical method, I wasn't being too serious when I mentioned it. Transition curves are a lot easier than that. I will try to get the next program update done soon, so that you can use the new tangential function instead. *Turnout-side Vee rail Joint Position. cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 13 Aug 2019 17:26 from: Kenilworth59
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Thanks Martin, I appreciate your time especially since this is a lapsed technique. No coffee necessary, just using Templot gives me a buzz! I was close then, just that at the time the TEXITP and the TVJP were co-incident because the geometry/turnout-road exit length was set to Normal and I misidentified the appropriate peg position, the former relating to the turnout-road exit length and the latter the Vee rail joint position. This exercise has helped with my understanding of turnouts and I have since delved into the Forum for more TEXITP info (as per the 2.14a changes note). One thought though, would it be prototypical to move the TVJP? Cheers Paul |
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posted: 13 Aug 2019 17:53 from: Martin Wynne
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Kenilworth59 wrote: One thought though, would it be prototypical to move the TVJP?Hi Paul, Well no, it should be set to match the prototype drawings. The default settings match the UK REA bullhead designs. This method isn't setting out to create a model of a turnout, it's just using the turnout geometry functions to create a tangential curve. The turnout gets discarded in the process. p.s. glad you get a buzz from Templot -- be careful, it's known to be addictive! cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 15 Aug 2019 21:43 from: Martin Wynne
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I have renamed this again, as make simple link. The word "tangential" won't mean much to many, and it's especially confusing when it's right alongside the word "transition" -- I've been clicking the wrong one myself. I have now created the internal help notes: 2_151634_320000000.png  cheers, Martin. |
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posted: 15 Aug 2019 22:05 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Looks useful. The instructions are fine. Nigel |
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posted: 19 Oct 2019 21:20 from: Kenilworth59
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Hi again Martin. I've been practising on a layout of Bedworth station and I'm stumped on the main line alignment. Having failed to do a satisfactory transition between the two straights PL80 and PR82 either side of the station, I've convinced myself from photographs from Warwickshire Railways that there is at least a tangential straight to curve join midway in the station area. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrb28.htm http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrb3256.htm I even can see a pronounced change of direction on the NLS map. I've used the Simple Link and with the peg (CTR+F8) moved along PL80 to where I thought the link should start my resulting PR81 gives a slightly tighter curve as well as an error message Small error found. 2726_191535_090000000.png  Can you guide me as to the appropriate way to approach this? Cheers Paul PS the reason for chosing Bedworth is that my Great Grandfather was station master there; image lnwrb3258 |
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| Attachment: attach_2921_3477_Bedworth_3mm_i3.box 96 | |||
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posted: 19 Oct 2019 21:21 from: Kenilworth59
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First of backgrounds.. | ||
| Attachment: attach_2922_3477_Bedworth_3mm_25ins_1913_AB.zip 81 | |||
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posted: 19 Oct 2019 21:22 from: Kenilworth59
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Final backgrounds. | ||
| Attachment: attach_2923_3477_Bedworth_3mm_25ins_1913_AB_(2).zip 76 | |||
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posted: 19 Oct 2019 22:36 from: Martin Wynne
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Hi Paul, Thanks for the files. That's a very small discrepancy which could be safely ignored. Obviously I need to do a bit more work on the new make simple link function. However, I always prefer a transition curve if possible. To create a transition between two straights it needs two separate transition curves, with a short length of fixed curve between them.* I tried putting a curve of 13000mm radius under the bridge, and then created a transition curve on each side of it. File attached below, if you want to try it. *"short" could be zero length, but it's easier to do if it has a short finite length. cheers, Martin. |
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| Attachment: attach_2924_3477_paul_bedworth.box 87 | |||
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posted: 21 Oct 2019 16:08 from: Kenilworth59
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Hi Martin. Thanks for quick reply and the perfect solution. Would never have thought of that. Cheers, Paul |
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