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                 Deleting pictures in background
     
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 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
1st message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 13:49
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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I've been trying to delete more than one picture from a background file. Deleting the first picture works fine, but deleting a second causes Templot to crash. I have tried it on a second background with the same result. Any ideas? The file Chipping Norton.bgs is attached.

Keith

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message ref: 27506
Attachment: Chipping Norton.bgs (Downloaded 15 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
2nd message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 15:37
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Keith,
I just loaded you file and tried deleting from it. Doesn't cause my system any problems. What happens when it crashes - what message do you get ?

Rob


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 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
3rd message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 16:06
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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Rob Manchester wrote: Hi Keith,
I just loaded you file and tried deleting from it. Doesn't cause my system any problems. What happens when it crashes - what message do you get ?

Rob

Hi Rob, The screen shot from the crash is above. I've also added the sk81 file that goes with Chipping Norton.bgs. I couldn't find a way to add more than one file as an attachment at one time, so the .sk82 will follow. Thanks, Keith

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message ref: 27509
Attachment: Chipping Norton.sk81 (Downloaded 17 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
4th message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 16:09
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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And .sk82
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message ref: 27511
Attachment: Chipping Norton.sk82 (Downloaded 14 times)
 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
5th message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 16:13
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from:
Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Keith,

Possibly a memory problem.

See this post http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3311&forum_id=4&highlight=memory+error

and read down to the bottom.

Rob


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message ref: 27512

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
6th message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 16:14
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
KeithArmes wrote:Hi Rob, The screen shot from the crash is aboveThanks Keith.

That is the same crash as reported by Simon recently:

  http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3311&forum_id=4#p27475

Two separate reports means a definite bug, although at present I haven't been able to find it or repeat it. Still looking. Anyone else, when deleting picture shapes?

cheers,

Martin.

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message ref: 27513

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
7th message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 16:28
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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Thanks, Gentlemen. Nice to know that I'm not alone, so maybe it's not me being stupid.
Cheers,
Keith
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message ref: 27514

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
8th message | this message only posted: 12 Aug 2019 23:07
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from:
MikeB
United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin.

I have been having the same problem recently, but this has been when trying to select a shape at the top of my list (rather than deleting). These are usually shapes that I have had a long time and are in several other lists. I then get the violation error box, then closing the error box you get another one come up. If you keep closing them (and they move about the screen), then they eventually go away and you get back control of Templot. With the first failure, it then looks like it is going through a list of something and when it gets to the end, it then clears.

Mike

Martin Wynne wrote: KeithArmes wrote:Hi Rob, The screen shot from the crash is aboveThanks Keith.

That is the same crash as reported by Simon recently:

  http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3311&forum_id=4#p27475

Two separate reports means a definite bug, although at present I haven't been able to find it or repeat it. Still looking. Anyone else, when deleting picture shapes?

cheers,

Martin.


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message ref: 27526

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
9th message | this message only posted: 13 Aug 2019 10:13
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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I've just tried my Chipping Norton files on an older PC, also running up-to-date Win10, and the deletion problem didn't happen. Back to my usual PC and following MikeB's suggestion, it took about 58 clicks of the error OK box before the problem cleared. The error box also moved round the lower part of the screen, as mentioned. 

Like others, I have also occasionally used a second screen, so that may have a bearing.

Keith 
MikeB wrote: Hi Martin.

I have been having the same problem recently, but this has been when trying to select a shape at the top of my list (rather than deleting). These are usually shapes that I have had a long time and are in several other lists. I then get the violation error box, then closing the error box you get another one come up. If you keep closing them (and they move about the screen), then they eventually go away and you get back control of Templot. With the first failure, it then looks like it is going through a list of something and when it gets to the end, it then clears.

Mike

Martin Wynne wrote: KeithArmes wrote:Hi Rob, The screen shot from the crash is aboveThanks Keith.

That is the same crash as reported by Simon recently:

  http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3311&forum_id=4#p27475

Two separate reports means a definite bug, although at present I haven't been able to find it or repeat it. Still looking. Anyone else, when deleting picture shapes?

cheers,

Martin.



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message ref: 27529

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
10th message | this message only posted: 13 Aug 2019 10:37
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Thanks Mike, Keith.

Keith, are you saying that you have 2 computers, both running up-to-date Windows10? And that on the older one you don't see the problem, but on the newer one you do?

Presumably the newer one is a lot faster than the the older one? We may be looking at a timing issue. Are there any other significant differences between the two computers? e.g. solid-state drive instead of disk, AMD processor instead of Intel. Can you say the make of the computers so that I can do some googling? Thanks.

When you get to the end of the clicking marathon, are the shapes actually deleted?

I fear it might require a lot of digging. :(

cheers,

Martin.

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message ref: 27531

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
11th message | this message only posted: 13 Aug 2019 12:29
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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Martin, at the end of the clicking the picture is removed, yes. The current computer is a Lenovo 320S-141KB and the older one an Acer Aspire One 1-431. Both 64bit, solid state drives and Intel.

I've just one more thing. The two pictures I was deleting are at the top of the list in the background shapes dialogue box (simply labelled 'picture'). I've tried moving them down the list even by one place and they can then both be deleted, BUT, as soon as I click on another shape in the list, the list goes blank and Templot crashes.

Keith
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message ref: 27536

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
12th message | this message only posted: 13 Aug 2019 12:35
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
KeithArmes wrote: Martin, at the end of the clicking the picture is removed, yes. The current computer is a Lenovo 320S-141KB and the older one an Acer Aspire One 1-431. Both 64bit, solid state drives and Intel.

I've just one more thing. The two pictures I was deleting are at the top of the list in the background shapes dialogue box (simply labelled 'picture'). I've tried moving them down the list even by one place and they can then both be deleted, BUT, as soon as I click on another shape in the list, the list goes blank and Templot crashes.
Hi Keith,

Thanks for that. And this doesn't happen on the other computer?

(It doesn't happen here either, on 3 different systems. :? )

cheers,

Martin.

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message ref: 27537

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
13th message | this message only posted: 13 Aug 2019 13:59
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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That's right, Martin. It doesn't happen on the older Acer machine.

Keith
__________
message ref: 27540

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
14th message | this message only posted: 18 Aug 2019 13:47
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Hi Keith, Mike,

I'm pleased to say that after several hours testing I can repeat this crash here. :thumb:

Pleased, because until I can make something happen here, I have almost no chance of fixing it.

Thanks again for reporting it.

The problem is not related to picture shapes specifically, or deleting shapes specifically, or moving shapes up and down in the list.

It is a bug in the vertical scrollbar in the list of background shapes.

When the list contains exactly one more shape than can be shown in the list box, selecting the first shape in the list, will cause a crash. It doesn't matter why you are selecting it.

Having more or fewer shapes in the list doesn't cause this. It has to be exactly one more than the list box can show, in order to crash. It took a bit of finding. :?

Obviously if you have a long list of shapes, and you are deleting them, at some stage you will reach a situation where there is now only one more in the list than the list box can show. At that point, selecting the first shape at the top of the list will crash.

It's a puzzling bug, because a) I can't find it, and b) the template storage box list is set up exactly the same way, but doesn't seem to show this problem.

The reason it appears not to show on some computers, for the same BGS file, is that they are using different screen font sizes, so the number of shapes visible in the list will be different.

Workaround:

Until I can fix this, the workaround is to move to the top of the list a shape which you will never need to select. It could be a short dummy line shape serving no other purpose. Just in case you happen to want to select another top shape when the number of shapes is exactly one more than are visible in the list.

Fixed in Templot version 223c now available.

cheers,

Martin.

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message ref: 27596

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
15th message | this message only posted: 18 Aug 2019 16:38
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from:
KeithArmes
Macclesfield, United Kingdom

 

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That's great Martin, now we know!

Cheers,
Keith
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message ref: 27600

 
 Clicked a link? Wrong message? Wait until the page has finished loading, click in the address bar and then press the Enter key. This is a timing bug in some browsers.
16th message | this message only posted: 18 Aug 2019 17:56
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Please do not send requests for help direct to me via email or PM.

Post your questions on the forum where everyone can see them and add helpful replies.
Thanks Keith.

I haven't been able to fix this in the conventional sense, because I think it is a bug in the compiler's implementation of the Windows ListBox control, when objects are linked to the list items. Fixing that means a lot of work on code not written by me, with every chance that I will create bugs rather than fixing them. :(

But I have added a mitigation in the next program update so that the exception is ignored and the program runs normally as far as a user is concerned.

I'm hoping to get an update to version 223c released within the next 24 hours.

The problem has existed since version 214a of January 2017, when I changed the listbox to OwnerDraw in order to show individual shapes being switched on and off.

cheers,

Martin.

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message ref: 27601

 
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