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                 4mm/ft mixed-gauge 9mm and 16.2mm
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81st message | this message only posted: 1 Oct 2019 12:20
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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RedgateModels wrote: Could the open switch blade act as a check rail? That's how the NG diverging route is controlled on the right hand turnout ....Hi Ian,

No, because to act as a check rail it would be open by only 1.3/4" and the wheel flanges would hit the tip of it.

Also generally it is bad news for wheels to hit the back of an open switch blade because it can damage stretcher bars and detection gear -- see the RAIB report on the Grayrigg accident.

Admittedly that hardly applies for industrial sidings, but even so the lateral forces on check rails can be considerable in sharply curved track, and switch blades are not designed to resist it. In the open position they are unsupported and entirely free. That is not the case in tram track.

cheers,

Martin.

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82nd message | this message only posted: 1 Oct 2019 12:27
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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hmmmm,

OK so I keep the left hand blades as they are and need to consider the NG section of the right hand turnout. Bit loathed to change that now.
I'll solder a temporary "tie bar" to the single blade and see how stock runs through in the straight ahead position from the toe direction.

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83rd message | this message only posted: 1 Oct 2019 15:01
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from:
Ariels Girdle
 

 

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RedgateModels wrote: Could the open switch blade act as a check rail? That's how the NG main route is controlled on the right hand turnout .....
Some early railway turnouts were like this, but it was high maintenance because of the buffeting the single blade took when acting as a check rail etc.

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84th message | this message only posted: 1 Oct 2019 15:09
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from:
RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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Ariels Girdle wrote: RedgateModels wrote: Could the open switch blade act as a check rail? That's how the NG main route is controlled on the right hand turnout .....
Some early railway turnouts were like this, but it was high maintenance because of the buffeting the single blade took when acting as a check rail etc.
Good to know, I'll see how the built turnout performs and then decide on the other, but I do have an electrical solution to prevent derailments through that one at least.
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85th message | this message only posted: 1 Oct 2019 20:26
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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So the NG stock seems to behave with the switch blade working as a check rail. I'll keep it like that. 
Progress on the left hand side too. I knew there was a problem with the templot plan around where the NG track departs, track gauges helped align things. It has a bit of a kick sideways so the curve is not as smooth as it could be but stock runs through fine. 

Onwards :) 



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86th message | this message only posted: 2 Oct 2019 07:15
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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The narrow gauge check rail looks to be a bit short at the right hand end, it should be extended back one more timber to cover the knuckle.

Phil
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87th message | this message only posted: 3 Oct 2019 06:59
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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More progress last night,
printed the adjoining section of plan and replaced onto a clean copy, looks better already. I can already see another check rail that is too short ....



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88th message | this message only posted: 3 Oct 2019 09:18
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from:
RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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Phil O wrote: The narrow gauge check rail looks to be a bit short at the right hand end, it should be extended back one more timber to cover the knuckle.

Phil
I see what you mean Phil, however things are very tight through that section, any lengthening of that check rail will have to follow along the same lines as the end of the current item due to the need for the 0-6-0 chassis to get round the curves, so not sure if it will actually contribute anything. I will look at it once the main construction is complete.
I will be replacing some heat damaged sleepers in that area anyway. 

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89th message | this message only posted: 3 Oct 2019 17:34
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from:
Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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If the check rail doesn't cover the knuckle, you may well get derailments in the facing direction with wheels striking the 'Vee'.
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90th message | this message only posted: 3 Oct 2019 21:26
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Phil O wrote: If the check rail doesn't cover the knuckle, you may well get derailments in the facing direction with wheels striking the 'Vee'.Hi Ian,

As Phil explained, the purpose of a check rail is to prevent wheel flanges from striking the nose of the vee. If it doesn't adequately cover the gap in the opposite crossing, it can't do that and it effectively serves no purpose:



More about check rails here:

 http://templot.com/companion/check_and_wing_rails.php

cheers,

Martin.

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91st message | this message only posted: 4 Oct 2019 06:46
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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Cheers chaps,
as I said I have rework to do on the right hand turnout set, I have removed the work from the workboard and given it a quick clean and a couple of sleepers need replacing in that area anyway. Probably too much heat when i was trying to solder with Plastic Magic rather than flux LOL

I'll look at the check rail then.

Here's a shot of the left hand combination now it's a bit cleaner. Got all the isolation gaps to do of course.



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92nd message | this message only posted: 6 Oct 2019 13:44
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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Happy with this. Might need more tweaking once laid and wired up. But so far so good.


Now, next mad idea is running the NG side into the middle of the standard gauge just before fiddle yard, I could then have common reversible cassettes.... 

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93rd message | this message only posted: 7 Oct 2019 10:14
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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As expected tweaks were needed, the gauge was too wide at the toe of the NG section circled. it allowed some stock to hit the nose of the fixed rail and as the geometry was fine for standard gauge stock, moving the NG centre rail was the obvious answer. I also missed a sleeper isolation break right next to the tie bar


I'm building it all onto fomecore which arrives this week, so need to get some dropper wires fixed before then, now where's that CAT5 cable ( brown, blue and green cores)

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94th message | this message only posted: 7 Oct 2019 11:14
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from:
Jim Guthrie
United Kingdom

 

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RedgateModels wrote: As expected tweaks were needed, the gauge was too wide at the toe of the NG section circled. it allowed some stock to hit the nose of the fixed rail and as the geometry was fine for standard gauge stock, moving the NG centre rail was the obvious answer. I also missed a sleeper isolation break right next to the tie bar
Looking at the check rail gap at the crossing to the right of fixed rail,  I would have said that what you needed to do was open up the gap between the fixed blade and its stock rail.  By roughly eye-balling the situation,  if the nose of the fixed rail was taken back to the next timber,  that might just about do it. :D   I would be worried about tightening gauge to get a flange through a narrow gap since it will give you a pinch point which could be problematic with your tight radii.

Jim.

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95th message | this message only posted: 7 Oct 2019 11:20
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from:
RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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Jim Guthrie wrote: RedgateModels wrote:
 Looking at the check rail gap at the crossing to the right of fixed rail,  I would have said that what you needed to do was open up the gap between the fixed blade and its stock rail.  By roughly eye-balling the situation,  if the nose of the fixed rail was taken back to the next timber,  that might just about do it. :D   I would be worried about tightening gauge to get a flange through a narrow gap since it will give you a pinch point which could be problematic with your tight radii.
Jim.
That very wide check rail gap is to get the 0-6-0 farish chassis though. I think the slightly pizza cutter flanges are not helping. I think I will take 0.1mm off them which will improve things. I have not closed the gauge up to less than 9mm, I made it too wide in the first place ;) Opening up the gap by shortening the fixed blade is still an option but currently everything runs fine. Still need to power up though and do a final check with stock running under it's own steam rather than my finger .....
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96th message | this message only posted: 10 Oct 2019 07:31
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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Made a start last night on the plain dual gauge section


Still toying with the idea of interesting another fixed blade/checkrail section to pull the narrow gauge into the centre of the standard gauge just before the fiddle yard exit. Will standardise on cassettes etc and give yet more variety to the trackwork ....

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97th message | this message only posted: 16 Oct 2019 05:07
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from:
Andy Reichert
 

 

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RedgateModels wrote: Happy with this. Might need more tweaking once laid and wired up. But so far so good.


Now, next mad idea is running the NG side into the middle of the standard gauge just before fiddle yard, I could then have common reversible cassettes.... 
I'm not a fan of the visual impact of using sleepers as tie bars, nor the poor reliability of rigid soldered construction. Since you are using FB rail, you have more options that don't need either rigidity or soldering.

Andy

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98th message | this message only posted: 16 Oct 2019 06:44
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RedgateModels
Mansfield, United Kingdom



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Temporary Andy, well initially LOL. To be honest the single blade should be fine rigid as it can pivot on the drive pin etc. So what would you suggest?
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