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1st message | this message only posted: 10 Sep 2019 19:51
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin,
I seem to be finding my way back to Templot again!  There's a couple of features that would be quite nice to have, if they're not already there somewhere:-
  • When printing the background templates, any platforms with a solid infill obliterate any text, such as timber numbering or "blunt nose" etc.  Could it be arranged so that the platform is always underneath any text?  Hatching partially solves this, but even so, the text then becomes chopped up.

  • The other one, which I'm sure is an option somewhere, is to not show the template number on the output, so just "A11" instead of "PL172.A11".

Cheers,

Paul



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2nd message | this message only posted: 12 Sep 2019 18:08
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Paul Boyd wrote: Hi Martin,
I seem to be finding my way back to Templot again!  There's a couple of features that would be quite nice to have, if they're not already there somewhere:-
  • The other one, which I'm sure is an option somewhere, is to not show the template number on the output, so just "A11" instead of "PL172.A11".
Hi Paul,

Welcome back. Have you been far? :)

Thanks for the suggestions. In fact there wasn't such an option on the template ID prefix, but there is now, untick this:



All these settings are included in the saved program preferences.

I have also moved the menu item from the sub-menu into the main menu to make it easier to find.

Attached below is a scruff release of Templot, version 2.23.x

Save the  templot_2.exe  file in your  C:TEMPLOT_DEV  folder (or wherever you keep Templot), to replace the one already there.

Windows will no doubt take a dim view of it and make you click through the usual security stuff.

It's the same as the current 2.23.c program update apart from these changes, and the previous changes in 2.23.z for Rob:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3488&forum_id=1#p27619

It also fixes the printing bug, see:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3500&forum_id=1

When printing the background templates, any platforms with a solid infill obliterate any text, such as timber numbering or "blunt nose" etc. Could it be arranged so that the platform is always underneath any text? Hatching partially solves this, but even so, the text then becomes chopped up.That's a more involved program change than I can put in a quick scruff release. But I have added the option above to allow the platforms to be switched on and off more easily. Generally the platforms aren't needed at the same time as the timber numbers and guide marks. The numbers are needed when printing an actual construction template to use on the workbench, the platforms are needed when printing a full track plan to lay out on the baseboard.

I will look at moving the timber numbers above the platforms in the next full update, but it's not straightforward because the platforms are part of the rails printing function -- which have to be above the timbering obviously.

cheers,

Martin.

Here is 2.23.x  (not exhaustively tested, please report any issues):

edit: 2.23.x deleted. See replacement 2.23.s:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3499&forum_id=3&jump_to=27772#p27772

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3rd message | this message only posted: 13 Sep 2019 16:37
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin
Thanks for that!  I've been lurking, but drifted into plastic modelling, with model railways in the background.  I've just been inspired to restart the S4n2 layout I started about 16 years ago then scrapped during a house move, although I kept the pointwork.  The fact that the seed has remained there all this time has to be a good sign!

The re-worked output elements options will do nicely, thank you. Yes, timber numbering is untidy on the track plan printout, and platforms are unnecessary on build templates, so that does make it much easier to switch around.

Cheers,
Paul

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4th message | this message only posted: 13 Sep 2019 18:02
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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Martin

I read this with interest. I have been looking for a way to remove text from templates so that after they have been physically cut, there is no spurious text on the template. I suspect that this option is what I have been looking for but I note that this is (I assume) a modification that is only available in your version 2.23 'scruff release'. (I couldn't locate the sub-menu you referred to). With my Templot version I don't get the same options as those pictured in your reply to Paul.

The text I want to remove is shown in the attached pictures......






Do I need to install the scruff to get rid of this please?

Thanks

Ray

Martin Wynne wrote: Paul Boyd wrote: Hi Martin,
I seem to be finding my way back to Templot again!  There's a couple of features that would be quite nice to have, if they're not already there somewhere:-
  • The other one, which I'm sure is an option somewhere, is to not show the template number on the output, so just "A11" instead of "PL172.A11".
Hi Paul,

Welcome back. Have you been far? :)

Thanks for the suggestions. In fact there wasn't such an option on the template ID prefix, but there is now, untick this:



All these settings are included in the saved program preferences.

I have also moved the menu item from the sub-menu into the main menu to make it easier to find.

Attached below is a scruff release of Templot, version 2.23.x

Save the  templot_2.exe  file in your  C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\  folder (or wherever you keep Templot), to replace the one already there.

Windows will no doubt take a dim view of it and make you click through the usual security stuff.

It's the same as the current 2.23.c program update apart from these changes, and the previous changes in 2.23.z for Rob:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3488&forum_id=1#p27619

It also fixes the printing bug, see:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3500&forum_id=1

When printing the background templates, any platforms with a solid infill obliterate any text, such as timber numbering or "blunt nose" etc. Could it be arranged so that the platform is always underneath any text? Hatching partially solves this, but even so, the text then becomes chopped up.That's a more involved program change than I can put in a quick scruff release. But I have added the option above to allow the platforms to be switched on and off more easily. Generally the platforms aren't needed at the same time as the timber numbers and guide marks. The numbers are needed when printing an actual construction template to use on the workbench, the platforms are needed when printing a full track plan to lay out on the baseboard.

I will look at moving the timber numbers above the platforms in the next full update, but it's not straightforward because the platforms are part of the rails printing function -- which have to be above the timbering obviously.

cheers,

Martin.

Here is 2.23.x  (not exhaustively tested, please report any issues):


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5th message | this message only posted: 13 Sep 2019 18:07
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin
I may have found a glitch.  When printing with 2.23x, I've lost the switch drive marks.  They're visible on screen, and the setting in the new Output elements window is ticked, but they don't appear on the printed copy.  They do with 2.23c.  I've just confirmed that by saving the box file in 2.23.x, swapping the .exe files back then opening the same box file and printing.

Either there's a bug, or I've missed something!

Cheers,

Paul

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6th message | this message only posted: 13 Sep 2019 20:49
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Paul, Ray,

Thanks for reporting that. I can confirm that the switch drive marks are missing on background templates (but OK on the control template) in 2.23.x   :(

Sorry about that, I will get it fixed as soon as poss. I've been afraid of this sort of thing happening more and more. My memory is now so bad that when I go blundering about in the code I leave unfinished loose ends and then forget to go back and tie them up again. I now spend hours and hours testing code changes to try to find any mistakes, but it's impossible to find everything.

Ray, you can remove the page corner text by unticking this menu item, but you will need to download the 2.23.x scruff version which I posted earlier in order to see it:   



In 2.23.c you can prevent that stuff showing by setting the font colour to white. You can use the same trick with any other text which you don't want to see.

But I'm wondering why you want to remove it? The printed output is intended to be an aid to track construction, it's not intended to look pretty. That's why they are called templates. :)

If you want something to look nice for display purposes or similar, you might do better to use one of the image file outputs, or maybe use the sketchboard.

cheers,

Martin.

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7th message | this message only posted: 14 Sep 2019 08:56
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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Martin

Thanks very much.

I'm not sure how the text I want to remove aids construction. The picture clearly shows the text cutting through the rails.....cutting along the red line doesn't help as the text (.....'This page begins.......') below the line remains. The only reason I want to remove it is because I don't like it, nothing more.  I don't want to lose anything else....just that. Incidentally, I can see that for large layouts the text tells one which sheets go next to each other......but for basic templates I don't think it is necessary.

In the meantime, I have just finished my first ever attempt at building my own track work....a 7mm OMF B7 crossover. All inspired by Templot (which, Martin, if I may say so, is a superb programme) and the efforts of others who have gone before me. The text didn't hinder me!

(Sorry if I have drifted from the main problem Paul highlighted).



Ray

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8th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 00:16
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hi Paul, Ray,

Here is another scruff release 2.23.w with the switch-drive marks fixed. :)

edit: see updated 2.23.s below:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3499&forum_id=3&jump_to=27772#p27772

cheers,

Martin.

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9th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 11:40
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hull Paragon wrote: I'm not sure how the text I want to remove aids construction. The picture clearly shows the text cutting through the rails.....cutting along the red line doesn't help as the text (.....'This page begins.......') below the line remains. The only reason I want to remove it is because I don't like it, nothing more.
Hi Ray,

After the page has been trimmed to the red lines, all information about it would be lost. Before I added the big "wartermark" page ident numbers (which are optional), even the page number would be missing. If you have been doing a lot of Templot printing you can accumulate a big pile of printed pages. The information in the corners can be a help if you need to sort them out, or make a repeat print of one of them. See for example:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3006&forum_id=3#p21380

It's in very small print to minimise obscuring the template detail, but if not wanted you can easily remove it as indicated in my previous post. The additional menu options in the scruff release will be in the next program update shortly.

cheers,

Martin.

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10th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 11:57
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from:
Paul Boyd
Loughborough, United Kingdom

 

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Martin Wynne wrote: Here is another scruff release 2.23.w with the switch-drive marks fixed. :)

Hi Martin, that's sorted it, thank you!
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11th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 13:16
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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Thanks again Martin.

I ought to know by now that everything in Templot is there for a reason!!

Ray

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12th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 13:34
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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One more thing if I may?

Whenever I print/output a track plan, the only indication I get of what will be printed is a skeleton outline. All of the things referred to in the posts above (print this/omit that etc) are only apparent after the page is printed.

Is there a print preview option that will show what is to be printed in a full page window and on how many sheets (a la Adobe Acrobat) before you press the button?

 

Thanks and regards

Ray

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13th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 14:54
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hull Paragon wrote: One more thing if I may?

Whenever I print/output a track plan, the only indication I get of what will be printed is a skeleton outline. All of the things referred to in the posts above (print this/omit that etc) are only apparent after the page is printed.

Is there a print preview option that will show what is to be printed in a full page window and on how many sheets (a la Adobe Acrobat) before you press the button?
Hi Ray,

You can see how many pages and how many on each row on the print preview dialog:




There isn't an option to see a preview of the actual output -- that's usually available on the printer driver if you need it:





Alternatively you could try a test export to a PDF file.

Many of the settings could also be seen by exporting an image file, or by going to the sketchboard and changing the trackplan item to detail mode.

However, I can see that it might be useful to have a direct page preview available in Templot. I will look at doing that in the next program update.

It isn't there now because even after all these years I haven't myself felt the need for it. But usually after adding a new feature I find myself using it frequently and wondering why I didn't do it years ago!  :)

cheers,

Martin.

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14th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 15:47
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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Martin

Thanks for your usual prompt and detailed response....much appreciated.

Regards

Ray
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15th message | this message only posted: 15 Sep 2019 19:37
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Phil O
Plymouth, United Kingdom



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Hull Paragon wrote: One more thing if I may?

Whenever I print/output a track plan, the only indication I get of what will be printed is a skeleton outline. All of the things referred to in the posts above (print this/omit that etc) are only apparent after the page is printed.

Is there a print preview option that will show what is to be printed in a full page window and on how many sheets (a la Adobe Acrobat) before you press the button?

 

Thanks and regards

Ray
Hi  Ray,


For what you're showing there,  I would at least move the page origin up a bit to get the template on two pages and possibly left to see if it would fit on one page.

Cheers Phil.



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16th message | this message only posted: 16 Sep 2019 18:56
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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Phil

Thanks. I was aware of this....the image (which came from another thread that Martin had responded to) was only to show an example of the print preview conversation and the spread of pages.....not the location of the template. But thanks for the thought!

Ray

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17th message | this message only posted: 17 Sep 2019 22:28
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Hull Paragon wrote: One more thing if I may?

Whenever I print/output a track plan, the only indication I get of what will be printed is a skeleton outline. All of the things referred to in the posts above (print this/omit that etc) are only apparent after the page is printed.

Is there a print preview option that will show what is to be printed in a full page window and on how many sheets (a la Adobe Acrobat) before you press the button?
Hi Ray, Paul,

I've been thinking about this. I think it could be very useful when printing individual pages from a large track plan to be able to preview the selected page before committing it to ink and paper.

So here is another scruff release 2.23.u

I have added an extra button to the print pages dialog to preview the selected page:



The zoom quality isn't too brilliant because it is using the standard Windows StretchDraw instead of a proper resampling (which would need a lot more code), but it's good enough to see what will be on the page. It can be zoomed using the slider, or the mouse wheel.

Alternatively for an accurate preview of every printed dot, you can lock the zoom at dot-for-dot by ticking the tickbox:



Which as you can see is very large image in screen terms, and will need a lot of scrolling to see all of it. Untick the box to revert to free zooming.

The preview window can be resized to suit your screen space.

Scruff release below. I have tested it as much as I can, but I would appreciate some feedback on any bugs or glitches you find. :)

No plans to do the same with the PDF export, because in that case the PDF reader program provides a preview in effect before printing.

edit: release deleted, see later version below:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3499&forum_id=3&jump_to=27772#p27772

cheers,

Martin.

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18th message | this message only posted: 17 Sep 2019 22:44
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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Hi Martin,

Thanks for yet another program update :) It seems to work fine and could be useful, the zoom quality isn't good unless you lock it as you say.

Rob


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Martin Wynne
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Rob Manchester wrote: Thanks for yet another program update :) It seems to work fine and could be useful, the zoom quality isn't good unless you lock it as you say.Thanks Rob.

I agree about the zoom quality. At present it is using the very same code to create the preview bitmap as is used to send the data to the printer. That should mean that it is identical to the printed output, but means the bitmap is very large and has to be significantly shrunk to fit the screen.

If it proves useful to have a preview, I will add a separate function to create the bitmap directly at a smaller scale, similar to the output scaling function. Which will make a much neater result, but not necessarily an exact replica of the print output (different line thicknesses, etc.). Likewise using a metafile as a preview would zoom nicely, but not necessarily match the printed output.

edit: see metafile update:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3499&forum_id=3&jump_to=27772#p27772

cheers,

Martin.

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20th message | this message only posted: 18 Sep 2019 14:01
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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Thanks Martin

This looks very useful even with the 'quality' issue.

Regards

Ray

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Tony W
North Notts., United Kingdom

 

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Hi Martin.
A print preview facility can be very useful. I have two printer drivers for the same printer, an A3 HP Deskjet. One has a print preview in built, the other doesn't. No prizes for guessing which one gets used most. It has saved me printing out many pages that weren't quite as I wished.
Regards
Tony.

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22nd message | this message only posted: 18 Sep 2019 20:39
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from:
Martin Wynne
West Of The Severn, United Kingdom



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Well you live and learn. :)

New scruff release 2.23.s below. Replaced by full version update 2.23.d:

 http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3506&forum_id=1

I intentionally avoided using a metafile for the preview, expecting to see problems from rounding effects and breakover.

But in view of the poor quality zooming of the preview bitmaps I thought it would be worth at least trying metafiles instead.

RESULT! Big improvement with only a few tiny rounding effects. In fact much better than would have been possible with any resampling of a bitmap:

metafile:



bitmap:



I have added an option tickbox as shown, on by default. The metafile option doesn't work if including background maps and picture shapes in the print, so in that case it reverts to a bitmap. But it does work for sketchboard items in the print, except any items which are large bitmap images.

cheers,

Martin.

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Rob Manchester
Manchester



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Thanks Martin,` :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Rob


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24th message | this message only posted: 19 Sep 2019 07:27
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from:
Hull Paragon
 

 

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Martin

I've lost track for a moment......Are we now on 2.23s as per your last post? (18 Sep 2019 21:39). I thought that was where this thread started before 2.23u and 2.23w? I am using 2.23u.

I seem to have lost my .box files.....the ones that appeared in the box when I clicked on the load or reload storage box from file option. They are there in the 2.23w version.

Incidentally, my anti virus programme hi-jacked your 2.23u.exe when I tried to run it. Apparently they analyse the file and then clear it before I can open it.

Finally I am getting this error message when trying to open the preview:



Thnaks Martin

Ray

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Jim Guthrie
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Hull Paragon wrote: I seem to have lost my .box files.....the ones that appeared in the box when I clicked on the load or reload storage box from file option. They are there in the 2.23w version.

Ray,

You might have hit the problem I got with a recent installation where the new Templot installation didn't go into the exisiting Templot folder,  but into a new folder.  Hence all the sub folders referenced were empty.  In my case I remember deleting the new Templot installation and its folder and taking particular note of what folder it was going to install in when I tried re-installing so that the new installation went into the existing Templot folder.  I don't know why this happened since all my other Templot installations have always found the existing folder and overwritten the older installation.

Jim.

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Martin Wynne
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Hull Paragon wrote: Martin

I've lost track for a moment......Are we now on 2.23s as per your last post? (18 Sep 2019 21:39). I thought that was where this thread started before 2.23u and 2.23w? I am using 2.23u.

I seem to have lost my .box files.....the ones that appeared in the box when I clicked on the load or reload storage box from file option. They are there in the 2.23w version.
Hi Ray,

The current full release version of Templot is 2.23.c , released on 19th August 2019.

If your copy of Templot didn't update automatically to 2.23.c you can download and install it from the green button at the top of this page, or from:

 http://templot.com/companion/installation.php

The full releases start at .a and work forwards through the alphabet.



The experimental scruff releases in this topic start at .z and work backwards. The latest one is .s

They are intended for computer-savvy users only -- copy the downloaded templot_2.exe file and paste it into your Templot installation folder at C:\TEMPLOT_DEV\ (or wherever you installed it), to replace the one already there. Windows will likely make you click through the usual security warnings when you run it the first time.

If you run it from wherever your browser saved it, it won't work properly and it won't be able to find your files.

Sorry if it wasn't clear -- I don't want to make a new full release until I have done a lot more testing, and received some feedback. It's difficult to know how to support the more computer-savvy users without confusing those less so.

cheers,

Martin.

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Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin
Gosh, that escalated quickly!  The print preview isn't something I knew I needed, but I do now!  That's a very useful feature, thank you.  And thanks to Ray for planting the seed!

Just one thing...  to try this feature out, I previewed one page, selected it to print which then takes you back to the main output window and offers you the next page.  Given that I didn't really want to actually print anything, I hit the cancel button, at which point the page I selected printed!  I don't think this is changed behaviour, just not something I'd noticed before and is the same in 2.23c.  I would have expected cancel to entirely cancel the print process, especially as it appears to work in the same way as 'Omit all remaining pages'.

Sorry!

Paul

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Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: Just one thing...  to try this feature out, I previewed one page, selected it to print which then takes you back to the main output window and offers you the next page...
Hi Paul,

Thanks. I also only realised how useful it is after Ray suggested it. :)

My red above. If you click print on the preview it's just the same as clicking print on the main dialog. Once you have sent some data to the printer, there is no way to stop it from within Templot -- you can stop it only via Windows or the printer driver.

If you don't want to print it after previewing, click the close button or just close the preview window.

That takes you back to the main dialog with the selected page unchanged (you can preview it again if you wish). Please let me know if that's not what you are seeing.

Have you tested the zooming of the preview with the slider and the mouse wheel? I'm interested to know if there are any glitches there. Selecting the dot-for-dot option should lock the zoom it until you deselect it.

The word "preview" is possibly confusing because of the existing output > preview options and explore preview records functions. I need to have a think about how best to resolve that. :?

I also need to do some more testing before a full release to make sure there aren't any issues with the banner printing or the bang function (print now!).

p.s. cancel is indeed the same as omit all remaining. It's only there because the words "omit" and "remaining" don't really make sense until after you have printed at least one page -- you may want to cancel the whole thing from the start. Possibly I should remove the cancel button after printing any pages. It's always the words which drive me nuts. :)

cheers,

Martin.

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Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin
I didn't realise data was being sent to the printer driver when you hit the Print button on each page, I suppose I imagined that it gathered all the required pages together then fired it off to the printer in one go, so hitting 'cancel' would just stop that firing off.  Now I'm looking at the print queue, I can see my first page is 'Spooling'.  It's not an issue though, I think playing with the preview function was the only time I've ever tried cancelling after I've asked for a page to print!  Out of curiosity, if I want to print one or several pages from a plan, what's the difference between 'omit all remaining pages' and 'cancel', as they both have the same effect - the selected page(s) prints and nothing else.

I've tried the zooming, and that works well.  For the sake of my tendons I very rarely use the mouse wheel, or even a mouse for that matter!  It did work though, although it was a little jagged at high zooms as you'd expect.  Would you be able to add a pan function to that window?  I automatically tried to drag the zoomed preview around and nothing happened!  The scroll bars work fine.

Cheers,
Paul



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Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: Hi Martin
I didn't realise data was being sent to the printer driver when you hit the Print button on each page, I suppose I imagined that it gathered all the required pages together then fired it off to the printer in one go, so hitting 'cancel' would just stop that firing off.  Now I'm looking at the print queue, I can see my first page is 'Spooling'.  It's not an issue though, I think playing with the preview function was the only time I've ever tried cancelling after I've asked for a page to print!  Out of curiosity, if I want to print one or several pages from a plan, what's the difference between 'omit all remaining pages' and 'cancel', as they both have the same effect - the selected page(s) prints and nothing else.
I've tried the zooming, and that works well.  For the sake of my tendons I very rarely use the mouse wheel, or even a mouse for that matter!  It did work though, although it was a little jagged at high zooms as you'd expect.  Would you be able to add a pan function to that window?  I automatically tried to drag the zoomed preview around and nothing happened!  The scroll bars work fine.Hi Paul,

Instead of the mouse wheel for zooming, you can also use the arrow keys if you prefer.

As I mentioned, the cancel button and omit all remaining are the very same internal function. The only difference is the wording on them. That's because "omit all remaining" doesn't look right if you haven't yet printed any pages -- in that situation most folks would look for a "cancel" . But I think perhaps I should hide the cancel button after the first page has been printed.

There is an Abort command which can be sent to the Windows print spooler. But stopping a print job in its tracks is not straightforward, because there are several different settings which a user can make in the print spooler. Here is what I wrote 20 years ago in the Help notes for the print dialog:
______

If print all remaining pages has been selected you can abort the sending of pages to the printer by pressing the F12 or ESC keys, but any already sent will continue to be printed.

After all the pages have been sent, Templot returns to the trackpad so that you can continue working while the pages are being printed. To abort printing at this stage you must use the Windows printer controls (double-click on the printer icon in the taskbar, in the window which appears click the TEMPLOT PAGES entry, then in the DOCUMENT menu, select CANCEL PRINTING).

If you set the Windows print spooler to "print directly to the printer", pages are sent for printing one at a time, so you will be able to abort printing after each page by pressing F12 or ESC , but you will not be able to continue working in Templot until all of the required pages have been printed."

______

As far as I know that remains the same today. Modern computers are so much faster -- you would need to be very quick to abort printing while the page data is still being sent to the spooler.

Are you reporting an actual issue, or just wanting to understand what's happening? :)

The bottom line is don't click a Print button if you are not 100% sure you want something printed!

I haven't yet thought to implement drag-panning on the preview dialog window. I can see it might be handy when zoomed in or on dot-for-dot. But one thing at a time. :)

(The window can be resized to full screen width if it helps.)

Thanks for the feedback.

cheers,

Martin.



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Paul Boyd
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Hi MartinBut I think perhaps I should hide the cancel button after the first page has been printed.  I think that would be a good idea, because it would reinforce that printing can no longer be cancelled once you've told Templot you want to print a page.

No issues, I was just curious about the workings!  It looks like I bought Templot in April 2001 (what version would that have been?) and it hasn't been a problem in all that time!

Cheers,
Paul

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Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: No issues, I was just curious about the workings!  It looks like I bought Templot in April 2001 (what version would that have been?) and it hasn't been a problem in all that time!Hi Paul,

That would have been version 0.68.c which was released on 29th March 2001. :)

Here is my announcement from the archive:

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/templot/conversations/messages/298

p.s. Instead of the mouse wheel for zooming the preview, you can also use the arrow keys if it helps -- have you tried it?

cheers,

Martin.

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Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin
I've been trying not to spend too much time in front of my computer during my week off work!

That would have been version 0.68.c which was released on 29th March 2001. p.s. Instead of the mouse wheel for zooming the preview, you can also use the arrow keys if it helps -- have you tried it?
I have tried that now, and it works fine.  I just went and had a look at the archive - it would be possible to get lost for days in there!  My first post was asking about hard drive serial numbers changing when formatting, relating to the lock release code.  Those days have long gone, but I still have the file relcode.txt in my Templot folder - perhaps it's time for a fresh install to tidy things up!

Cheers,
Paul

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Martin Wynne
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Hi Paul,

Your question about the date of old versions prompted me to spend a pleasant sunny afternoon in the garden, reading back through some of my old Templot notebooks (for the first time in years). :)

There is a long record of ideas, changes and bug fixes in there. Most of them were either implemented or eventually discarded. But there are a few ideas which seem to have been simply forgotten.

One such is the idea to have an exchange function in the parking bay, in addition to retrieve (which discards the current control template). I can see several situations with partial templates where it would be useful to swap quickly to and fro between two control templates, and be easier to access than using the existing SHIFT+CTRL+MOUSE WHEEL.

In fact I have gone ahead and provided it in the next program update. But it desperately needs a keyboard shortcut for bay 1. We have CTRL+P and CTRL+R for park and retrieve in bay 1, but there are no spare shortcuts available to use for exchange.

Except perhaps CTRL+V. That is still available for store & background in addition to the INSERT key and the ` key (back-quote, top-left key on UK keyboards). Having 3 keyboard shortcuts plus a toolbar button plus 2 menu entries seems a bit excessive for one function.

So I'm tempted to use CTRL+V for exchange:



But I know how much some folks hate any changes to the shortcuts. Is anyone still using CTRL+V instead of INSERT ?

p.s. I'm aware that in most Windows programs CTRL+V is paste. But Templot doesn't have a paste function on the trackpad.

cheers,

Martin.

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Hi Martin
Exchange would be an incredibly useful feature.  I already use Park and Retrieve, and have unwittingly lost a control template by retrieving too early (easily undone though with Ctrl-U, storing, then retrieving again).  I must admit that I’d forgotten about the multiple parking bays though.

Ctrl-V would be fine for me as I always use Insert.  With so few keyboard shortcuts, it does seem extravagant to have more than one shortcut for the same function.  In fact, losing Insert to Exchange would be a pain because I’m in the habit of hitting Home to hide the control template just before storing to the background to make sure I’m not duplicating anything, and of course Home and Insert are next to each other!

Cheers,
Paul

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Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: I must admit that I’d forgotten about the multiple parking bays though.Hi Paul,

Here you go -- spot the difference: :)



It's odd that no-one ever mentioned that before. :?

With so few keyboard shortcuts, it does seem extravagant to have more than one shortcut for the same function.There are several such. It's primarily to allow for different keyboards. Some laptops and Windows tablets don't have a full set of traditional keys, and non-UK keyboards differ -- for example USA keyboards have fewer keys than UK. The Insert key is mainly used to swap to overwrite mode in some text editors, and the Back-quote and Not key (¬) are used in some programming languages.

cheers,

Martin.

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Hi Martin,

Like Paul I wouldn't want the function of the Insert key changed. It has taken me years to use Insert rather than the menu for storing a template. The need for partial templates has reduced considerably with the excellent new features introduced in the past year or so and I can't remember the last time I used one parking bay let alone several :)

{ If you want to confuse a casual PC user when they are typing a document lean over and press the Insert key while they aren't watching....you can be sure it will drive them nuts :D }

Rob


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Martin Wynne
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Rob Manchester wrote: Like Paul I wouldn't want the function of the Insert key changed.Hi Rob, Paul,

Some confusion there. I'm not remotely suggesting any change to the Insert key.

My question was the acceptability of changing CTRL+V. Sorry if it wasn't clear. :?

The Insert key also drives me nuts in text editors if I press it accidentally. On the other hand overwrite mode is extremely handy in some situations, usually with a fixed-width font and tables of data.

cheers,

Martin.

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Martin,

Sorry, helps if you read your post properly :? Moving Control-V to be a parking bay exchange is fine.

Rob


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I'm still using CTRL V - must make me a dinosaur...
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