Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 3805Operating model turnouts with stretcher bars
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posted: 31 Oct 2020 18:03

from:

Julian Roberts
 
 

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Hello Templotters
I wonder what the current general state of play is regarding operating model turnouts through something resembling the stretcher bars.

Searching for some pictures of the real thing, I had a look at topic 2040 which shows some prototype new bullhead turnouts.  I know there are various other sorts of stretcher bars too.  These look quite flexible as they attach to the blades through several nuts and bolts.  I thought stretcher bars just pulled the blades the correct distance apart, but it looks as though in one direction these bars push to close the blade.

On the model, Masokits seem to offer a very reasonable representation, and are surprisingly strong.  My concern is whether they are too strong! - and not very flexible.  

My previous experience so far has been to use a moving plastic false sleeper with Peco pins inserted from below, one for each blade, each one cut short, curved round and soldered to the blade.  Thus the pins can swivel in the plastic, and the design works perfectly, but is just not satisfactory visually.

I wonder whether there are any other designs out there?

Thanks in advance if anyone has any thoughts...

Cheers
Julian

posted: 31 Oct 2020 19:16

from:

alan@york
 
 

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Ambis Engineering.
http://www.ambisengineering.co.uk/Products/Products_Index.htm

posted: 31 Oct 2020 19:19

from:

alan@york
 
 

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz_9Y5lk0JY&feature=player_embedded

unsure whose kit is being used here...
a@y

posted: 31 Oct 2020 20:15

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Julian Roberts wrote:

My previous experience so far has been to use a moving plastic false sleeper with Peco pins inserted from below, one for each blade, each one cut short, curved round and soldered to the blade.  Thus the pins can swivel in the plastic, and the design works perfectly, but is just not satisfactory visually.

I use the same as you do, except I use a pcb sleeper instead of plastic, and brass nails for the pin. The sleeper is gapped to avoid electrically connecting the switch rails. I find it works fine and looks good enough to me. The swiveling pins are a big part of making it move easily.

I use the sleeper where the prototype main tiebar would go, between two genuine sleepers. I believe Pendon do or did similar, except they replaced an actual sleeper with the false one.

Had a problem recently in spilling some Plastic Weld over a point. It stuck. I managed to free it but it doesn't close easily enough. I suspect the pin has glued to the sleeper. Probably needs unsoldering to work it free. Doh!

Nigel


Last edited on 31 Oct 2020 20:16 by Nigel Brown
posted: 31 Oct 2020 20:17

from:

wcampbell23
 
Hamilton, Scotland - United Kingdom

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Hi Julian

There are several commercially produced products available.  For 7mm scale I originally used the Ambis product - these are nickel-silver etched brackets and thin double-sided copperclad strip.

One of my turnouts is shown below:

54_311508_060000000.jpg54_311508_060000000.jpg

The brackets are soldered to the inside edge of the foot of the rail and the etched brackets.  The drive bar is extended to the side in a similar manner to the prototype.  The assembly is solid with no pivots - this works more satisfactorily for longer switches compared to the dummy sleeper and pivoting pin arrangement.  Even with short switches there is plenty of flex in the switch rails for the movement to be free enough for point motor operation.

Since using these the price has increased dramatically and I now use a simple wire bracket instead of the etchings.  Copper wire stripped from cable is used, soldered to the inside foot of the switch rail, bent down and then inwards before being soldered to copperclad strip.

Regards.

posted: 31 Oct 2020 22:46

from:

Julian Roberts
 
 

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Hi Alan, Nigel, Bill (is it Bill from the modelling "dungeon" below Glasgow Central Station in the old days?)

Thanks for your ideas guys, that's a great response!  Wow that Ambis video shows just  what I'd like, but with a simpler mechanism for hand operated points in the yard at Kyle as in this picture below3591_311743_100000000.png3591_311743_100000000.png.  By the way I didn't clarify, my question is regarding 4mm scale, but all ideas are useful.

Yes Nigel my previous points were for our club layout and the ballasting process when done by people not fully aware of my design caused the mechanism to gunge up and no end of bother.

I did buy some Ambis etches some years ago and the complexity of the instructions sent me in an alternative direction, but I will have another look at them.  They look as though they are more flimsy than the Masokits offering, but I think this may be an advantage.

Any more ideas or comments welcome!  I will have a play and report back in due course.

Cheers
Julian


posted: 1 Nov 2020 01:39

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Great pic. My memories of Kyle date from about that time, just after the Class 24s had taken over.The shed had lost its roof but was otherwise intact; I think your pic shows it in this state.

We stayed in a B&B in Loch Carron. Every morning you could hear the 24s shunting the goods sidings across the loch. I've tried to pin-point where the sidings were; they could have been at Strome but I had a feeling they were higher up the loch. Before BR ditched general freight the line had quite extensive freight traffic and the sidings carried overflow from the limited storage facilities at Kyle.

Nigel
Last edited on 1 Nov 2020 01:41 by Nigel Brown
posted: 1 Nov 2020 07:17

from:

Julian Roberts
 
 

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Interesting to know that even then there was still extensive freight traffic. The limitation of the layout I'm making (which will be dated early BR) is that most of the shunting will be offstage. Some shunting did come up to the engine shed area, and I'll have to invent additional moves, and reasons to use the siding by the shed. Long way to go still...

posted: 1 Nov 2020 09:26

from:

wcampbell23
 
Hamilton, Scotland - United Kingdom

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Julian Roberts wrote:
Hi Alan, Nigel, Bill (is it Bill from the modelling "dungeon" below Glasgow Central Station in the old days?)

I did buy some Ambis etches some years ago and the complexity of the instructions sent me in an alternative direction, but I will have another look at them.  They look as though they are more flimsy than the Masokits offering, but I think this may be an advantage.

Any more ideas or comments welcome!  I will have a play and report back in due course.

Cheers
Julian
Hi Julian

Yes I am Bill from the Strathclyde O Gauge Group - we are now in a new clubroom in the Bridgeton area.  The move has not been without its challenges but we are making progress on a large new O gauge layout which has a detachable branch terminus that can be taken to exhibitions - if we ever have another exhibition that is!

I did wonder whether the Ambis design would be sturdy enough but so far none of those installed have given any problems.  In terms of appearance I think they are closest to those in the photograph.

I look forward to you keeping us all informed with progress in your project.

Best wishes.

posted: 1 Nov 2020 19:55

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Julian Roberts wrote:
Interesting to know that even then there was still extensive freight traffic. The limitation of the layout I'm making (which will be dated early BR) is that most of the shunting will be offstage. Some shunting did come up to the engine shed area, and I'll have to invent additional moves, and reasons to use the siding by the shed. Long way to go still...
These two pics might give you ideas of some of freight which could be passing through:
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2194733
http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/5128618

Nigel
Last edited on 1 Nov 2020 19:57 by Nigel Brown
posted: 5 Nov 2020 10:20

from:

Julian Roberts
 
 

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Thank you for those links Nigel.  Luckily for me there are several sources of photographs of the area and trains of the past.
I spent the next morning staring at my Ambis etches, feeling as baffled as before, and considering all the other options, before thinking I haven't given the Masokits stretcher bars enough of a go.

So I made up two of them and fixed them onto a turnout.  Unlike the previous time I'd tried them a few weeks ago for a turnout that will be offstage and has "model"  (i.e. overscale) joggles, this turnout has undercut blades with no joggles, so the way they lie against the stock rail is critical, and they must lie all the way along the length of the planing, if there are to be no derailments.  (This is P4 gauge)

I'm very pleased with the result.  The points set in each direction perfectly, quite freely but with a solid feel, all the way along the planing. Stock doesn't derail, even the 6 wheel van which many people regard as being most prone to "poor running".  It doesn't look quite as real as the Ambis examples, I think mainly because if I want to solder the rail fixings midway between the sleepers (to avoid any danger of soldering them to the slide chairs) the stretcher bar itself is more immediately alongside the sleeper.  But I think there is plenty of variety in prototype stretcher bars appearance that I'm not too bothered about this.

http://youtu.be/ES0roYZSZkI
http://youtu.be/c5KVDf04CRs3591_050512_330000000.jpg3591_050512_330000000.jpg

Remembering Bill this is nearly twice as small as your scale!  (Fantastic clubroom you have in Bridgeton! I've a friend who wants to contact Cecil in your Group, I will try to find your email address)

Another very useful feature of the Masokits design is that a way of attaching an operating rod is built in, and it will not be live to either rail.3591_050518_030000000.jpg3591_050518_030000000.jpg

posted: 5 Nov 2020 10:50

from:

wcampbell23
 
Hamilton, Scotland - United Kingdom

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Hi Julian

That's looking good - nice and neat!

Cecil has now moved up to Deeside to be nearer family but he has made railway related friends up there. His email address is now:

shecumath@gmail.com

Best wishes.

posted: 5 Nov 2020 10:54

from:

Julian Roberts
 
 

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Thanks Bill!



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