Templot Club Archive 2007-2020
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posted: 6 Mar 2009 01:21 from: Martin Wynne
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Dear all, It's now over 12 months since pug 091c was released, so I thought a progress report on the next pug wouldn't go amiss. In fact it will now be the next pug but one, because I have committed to producing an interim pug as soon as possible with some basic user preferences saving. The main changes in the next full pug will be to the output options. In addition to the previous printed output there will be three new options: 1. output to PDF files, up to large sizes suitable for wide-format roll printing. 2. output to raster image files (GIF, PNG, BMP formats). 3. output to pages on the Templot Sketchbook. In addition any output can be in "diagram mode" or the existing "template mode". Diagram mode is a simplified output suitable for published track plans, signal box diagrams, control panels, and similar. None of these functions is yet finished, but I have made significant progress in recent weeks. Templot Sketchbook is new separate function within Templot -- almost a separate program in its own right. It's a mini desktop-publishing/drawing package, which will allow the creation of colourful layout plans, control panels and diagrams directly within Templot. Previously it was necessary to export a DXF file and do this sort of thing in a separate CAD program. Here's an example of what can be done in Templot Sketchbook: defynnog.png  Here's a screenshot showing Templot Sketchbook in use: sketchbook_draft.png  I have zoomed and resized it to match the underlying track plan on the pad. The yellow scales top and left show the actual printed page size. In this example the area is 260mm wide by 180mm high, i.e. an easy fit on A4 or US Letter paper in landscape format. The blue scales bottom and right show the actual model size, matching the pad scales. By comparing scales you can see that the track plan was output (in diagram mode) at 10% of full size. Note that the yellow vertical scale originates from top left, in the usual way for printed matter. Whereas the blue scale originates from bottom left in the usual engineering style (matching the grid on the pad). What, if anything, I could or should do about this anomaly has had me scratching my head a lot recently.  Templot Sketchbook is based around a component developed by Nils Haeck in the Netherlands. Unfortunately Nils suffered a brain injury in a serious horse-riding accident in November. He is on the mend, but not yet back at work. If you are reading this Nils (not very likely), best wishes for a full recovery. I have purchased full sources and made significant changes to suit Templot, and not having Nils available for user support has been a difficulty. I'm confident I can solve most of the outstanding issues, but the first release of the Sketchbook may still have a few rough edges. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 6 Mar 2009 01:37 from: Nigel Brown click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Excellent stuff Martin. I like the look of Sketchbook. Personally I wouldn't worry about the two origins; so long as people know what the two different sets of axes are for that ought to be sufficient, and in fact having two origins may help to illuminate the difference. cheers Nigel |
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posted: 6 Mar 2009 19:07 from: Ashley click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Excellent stuff Martin. I look forward to this update. | ||
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posted: 6 Mar 2009 19:57 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi Martin That Sketchbook really does look like a complete departure from what Templot does, but very nice all the same. I won't complain about its inclusion! I'm not sure that anyone asking for Sketchbook can complain about anyone else wanting things like irregular diamonds or saving preferences though  Certainly the PDF output sounds good. Not being experienced in these things, are print shops set up to take these large format PDFs? I'd always assumed they wanted DXFs. Will the PDFs have the ability to select or deselect certain elements in the same way as the current DXF output? A new PUG is always something to look forward to. You do realise that you're getting inexorably closer to the magic PUG 1.00, don't you? |
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posted: 7 Mar 2009 18:38 from: gsmorris click the date to link to this post click member name to view archived images |
Martin, Very welcom additions and can't wait either gsmorris |
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posted: 7 Mar 2009 21:40 from: Martin Wynne
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Paul Boyd wrote: Certainly the PDF output sounds good. Not being experienced in these things, are print shops set up to take these large format PDFs? I'd always assumed they wanted DXFs.Hi Paul, If you Google "wide-format poster printing" you will find lots of high-street places printing large PDFs on posters and advertising banners. They tend to be in full colour on photo paper, so expensive -- about GBP 25 per metre for 900mm (36") wide. But ringing round you should find somewhere prepared to print it in grey-scale on plain paper, and looking at your PDF they can easily see that it will use only a fraction of the ink compared with a full-colour photo poster. So negotiating a better quote shouldn't be too difficult. The great advantage of PDF over DXF printing is that it doesn't need an operator skilled in a CAD package. Provided you specify "no page scaling", it's then just a matter of clicking "Print" in the PDF reader. Any print shop with a wide-format roll printer should be able to do it. DXF is still preferable (and likely to be cheaper), but you have to find somewhere that can do it properly. Will the PDFs have the ability to select or deselect certain elements in the same way as the current DXF output?Yes, but not as in the DXF output. The settings will be exactly the same as for the normal template printing on your own printer. A new PUG is always something to look forward to. You do realise that you're getting inexorably closer to the magic PUG 1.00, don't you?Indeed. Just think -- after 30 years, the first version of Templot! regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 11:34 from: Martin Wynne
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It seems there may be some problems with the Sketchbook feature when running on Windows Vista and using the Aero interface. This may be difficult to resolve until Nils is back at work. It would be helpful to know how many Templot users are using Vista + Aero? Would you be happy to switch Aero off while using Templot? regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 11:56 from: Paul Boyd
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I run Vista on my laptop, but I don't have Aero. I prefer to use the processor and graphics power for applications, not for Windows |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 12:56 from: Dave Summers
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Paul Boyd wrote: I run Vista on my laptop, but I don't have Aero. I prefer to use the processor and graphics power for applications, not for WindowsPresumably you are running Vista Basic. Aero is available to PCs using a compatible graphics adapter and running the Home Premium, Business, Ultimate or Enterprise editions of Windows Vista. I run Aero and have plenty of graphics grunt to support both that and anything else that requires it. I would prefer not to have to switch off Aero just to satisfy a Templot program element which is not fundamental to Templot's core utility. Dave |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 13:35 from: Martin Wynne
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Dave Summers wrote:I would prefer not to have to switch off Aero just to satisfy a Templot program element which is not fundamental to Templot's core utility.Hi Dave, I don't yet know the severity of this problem. It won't be necessary to switch off Aero if you are not using the Sketchbook feature in Templot. Even with Aero on, the problem may be liveable with. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 14:10 from: Paul Boyd
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Hi DavePresumably you are running Vista Basic. Aero is available to PCs using a compatible graphics adapter and running the Home Premium, Business, Ultimate or Enterprise editions of Windows VistaYes, I am running Vista Basic. My laptop isn't capable of running Aero although my desktop PC is, in theory. The point being that running Aero takes a lot of the "grunt" that you've paid for to run applications, not the operating system. Two applications that I regularly use where I want all the processing power available are Adobe Photoshop and Templot. The former especially will run slower with less grunt available, especially with 150Mb+ projects loaded, and Templot will happily take 100% of the available processing power during mouse actions, so less resource means slower running and screen refresh. I'm really not sure (even having looked at the Microsoft website) what Aero gives you in return for using a lot more resource. Cheers |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 14:37 from: Jim Guthrie
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Martin Wynne wrote: It seems there may be some problems with the Sketchbook feature when running on Windows Vista and using the Aero interface. This may be difficult to resolve until Nils is back at work.Martin, The question could be - would you use Sketchbook. I run Vista + Aero on one machine. I doubt if I would require to use the Sketchbook facility and I could live with a bug (or whatever) until it could be cleared up.Jim. |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 14:59 from: Martin Wynne
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Jim Guthrie wrote:The question could be - would you use Sketchbook.Hi Jim, Ok, I'll rephrase the question.  IF you are using Vista, and IF you use the Aero interface, and IF you intend to use the Sketchbook feature in Templot -- would you be happy to switch Aero off while doing so? I don't have Vista so I don't really know what Aero adds. Is it just fancy graphics or is there extra actual Windows functionality? Do some applications use Aero to expand their available functions? Does it add anything to Templot? regards, Martin. |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 15:10 from: richard_t
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Martin Wynne wrote:Jim Guthrie wrote:The question could be - would you use Sketchbook.Hi Jim, As far as I can tell Aero is just fancy graphics, and a replacement for ALT-TAB (Windows-TAB), that I always forget about (ATL-TAB is too ingrained.) I don't think it adds to any functionality. I like it on my work laptop, but it's not the end of the world. I think you can mark an application as not "Aero" compatible, and it disables Aero during the execution of that problem (unf. for the whole of the desktop, not just that app.) and restores it once it finishes. I know it can be done, some Oracle tools managed to do it, but I don't know how. (I don't do real windows programming any more  There is a properties/compatibility, and say it must run in Windows XP mode, or perhaps try the "Disable Visual Themes" option. I don't have Templot on this laptop so I can't try it directly, but "Disable Visual Themes" seems to do the trick on a test application. |
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posted: 26 Mar 2009 17:23 from: Jim Guthrie
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Martin Wynne wrote: Jim Guthrie wrote:Martin,The question could be - would you use Sketchbook.Hi Jim, I'd just been indulging in that peculiar form of torture called "pushing timbers" so Sketchbook wouldn't be much help in that. However, I've been digging through old messages about interlaced turnouts and noted you promising some help in a future PUG release for working with interlacing. Is this forthcoming PUG the one with that help, or is it just the "Save preferences to save clicking buttons" solution. Jim. |
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posted: 27 Mar 2009 11:57 from: Martin Wynne
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I wrote: It seems there may be some problems with the Sketchbook feature when running on Windows Vista and using the Aero interface.Further information suggests this problem may be confined to later versions of the compiler than the one I am using for Templot. In which case I may have shouted "Fire!" too soon. I suppose I'll just have to get Vista anyway, to be able to test this stuff. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 27 Mar 2009 12:08 from: Martin Wynne
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Jim Guthrie wrote:I've been digging through old messages about interlaced turnouts and noted you promising some help in a future PUG release for working with interlacing. Is this forthcoming PUG the one with that help, or is it just the "Save preferences to save clicking buttons" solution.Hi Jim, The next Pug will be "Save preferences to save clicking buttons" and nothing else. And then only a small sub-set of the hundreds of settings. That should be ready in a few days. A lot more changes in the Pug after that, although I haven't yet done anything about interlaced timbering. I have a note here to duplicate all the T timbers and set them all to the standard sleeper size. Half of them would still need shoving into position for the turnout road. Can you provide a link to what I actually promised to do, please? The grey cells have failed again. regards, Martin. |
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posted: 27 Mar 2009 16:28 from: Jim Guthrie
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Martin Wynne wrote: Jim Guthrie wroteThe next Pug will be "Save preferences to save clicking buttons" and nothing else. And then only a small sub-set of the hundreds of settings. That should be ready in a few days.Martin, You mentioned it about two years ago when Bob started experimenting with NE interlaced pointwork. I can't remember which message it was now - I would have to go back and search. I'm managing fairly well with constructing an NBR 16ft Straight switch turnout. What would be handy is if the sleepers from the heel through the crossing could be standard length on the main road - maybe another option on the "Timber Length Increments" list like "fixed 9ft length" might do the job, and the sleepers on the other road are filled in with plain track with no rails. Jim. |
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posted: 23 Sep 2009 02:51 from: Martin Wynne
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I wrote: Templot Sketchbook is based around a component developed by Nils Haeck in the Netherlands. Unfortunately Nils suffered a brain injury in a serious horse-riding accident in November 2008. He is on the mend, but not yet back at work. If you are reading this Nils (not very likely), best wishes for a full recovery. I'm very pleased to report that Nils has now been able to resume some of his work. He writes today: "My health is getting better and it looks like I am able to write some software again, albeit still slowly and with ease, I can't concentrate for longer than 3 or 4 hours." Best wishes Nils -- and I wish I could concentrate for 3 or 4 hours. Martin. |
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