Templot Club Archive 2007-2020                             

topic: 759Rolling sleepers
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posted: 9 Mar 2009 02:24

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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This is pug 0.82d, and almost certainly a lack of understanding on my part. I've just knocked up a quick experimental and simple track plan involving just one turnout, a couple of feet or so of diverging rails, and a bit of approach track. Now the last sleeper next to the turnout on the approach track slightly overlaps the last sleeper of the turnout, so I thought this might be a good time to try out rolling sleepers to get the right sleepers with the right spacing at the rail joint with the turnout. No problem, it worked fine. However, the other end of the approach track now has a sleeper which is a bit beyond the end of the rail, and I thought that for neatness it would be nice to extend the rail to reach just beyond the sleeper. So I pressed F4, thinking this would do the trick. No. What it now does is continue to roll the sleepers, leaving the rail the same length. My guess is that there must be something which one is meant to do to stop the sleepers rolling. The question is what?

posted: 9 Mar 2009 08:37

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Nigel Brown wrote:
So I pressed F4, thinking this would do the trick. No. What it now does is continue to roll the sleepers, leaving the rail the same length.
Hi Nigel,

I think you pressed the number 4 key by mistake instead of F4. :) The number keys 1 to 9 are single-key alternatives to CTRL-F1 to CTRL-F9 respectively. See the single-key shortcuts on the chart: help > print F-key chart menu item.

4 / CTRL-F4 is the roll rails mouse action.

The single-key alternative shortcuts make it possible to change mouse action quickly with one hand without removing the other hand from the mouse. But they aren't always available (if the keyboard has focus somewhere else), hence the need for the standard F-key shortcuts also.

I've just knocked up a quick experimental and simple track plan involving just one turnout, a couple of feet or so of diverging rails, and a bit of approach track. Now the last sleeper next to the turnout on the approach track slightly overlaps the last sleeper of the turnout, so I thought this might be a good time to try out rolling sleepers to get the right sleepers with the right spacing at the rail joint with the turnout. No problem, it worked fine. However, the other end of the approach track now has a sleeper which is a bit beyond the end of the rail, and I thought that for neatness it would be nice to extend the rail to reach just beyond the sleeper.

You have rather lost me there. :? The way to add approach track is with the F3 mouse action (or 3 key) on a turnout template, which makes a correct rail joint automatically. Then if you want it as a separate plain track template, click the tools > make split > make separate approach track menu item.

On a plain track template the sleeper spacings always originate from the CTRL-1 end of the template (marked across with a line). So the way the sleepering responds when using the F4 length mouse action depends on whether the peg is at the CTRL-0 or CTRL-1 end. Try swapping the peg to the other end to see the different effect on the sleepering.

Usually in a design you don't have a choice about which end of the template the peg should be at, so if necessary you can reverse the 0 and 1 positions by clicking the template > swap end-for-end menu item.

The roll rails and sleepers functions don't change the length of the template -- they are intended as a tidying-up operation when the track plan design is complete, in the same way as shove timbers. It doesn't make sense to use them while you are still creating the design, because it's very likely your work will be wasted when you change things.

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Mar 2009 13:33

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Martin Wynne wrote:
Nigel Brown wrote:
So I pressed F4, thinking this would do the trick. No. What it now does is continue to roll the sleepers, leaving the rail the same length.
Hi Nigel,

I think you pressed the number 4 key by mistake instead of F4. :) The number keys 1 to 9 are single-key alternatives to CTRL-F1 to CTRL-F9 respectively. See the single-key shortcuts on the chart: help > print F-key chart menu item.

You have rather lost me there. :? The way to add approach track is with the F3 mouse action (or 3 key) on a turnout template, which makes a correct rail joint automatically. Then if you want it as a separate plain track template, click the tools > make split > make separate approach track menu item.
Hi Martin

I rechecked. No, it was F4 I was using. Although the info box which appears claims that it's doing what it should, in fact it works the same as 4 and Cntrl-F4. However, as this is an old Pug and I've done what I needed to, I leave there.

Yes, I should have used F3 to adjust the approach track, in fact that was in my mind when I started producing the templates. Somehow when I got to that point I just moved the control template onto that point instead; I put it down to ttrying things too late at night!

cheers
Nigel

posted: 9 Mar 2009 14:01

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Nigel Brown wrote:
I rechecked. No, it was F4 I was using. Although the info box which appears claims that it's doing what it should, in fact it works the same as 4 and Ctrl-F4.
Hi Nigel,

Can you provide a screenshot or detailed instructions for me to reproduce this? I've tried everything I can think of, and F4 always changes the length of the template. The sleepers roll as well, but that's how F4 works.

CTRL-F4 rolls the sleepers without changing the template length.

If this is a bug it needs fixing urgently, but at present I can't reproduce it. :?

It's possible that there is an issue with the CTRL key on your computer. Do you get the same effect if you use the menus?

regards,

Martin.

posted: 9 Mar 2009 17:18

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Hi Martin

Thought the best thing was to send you the box file, herewith attached. I can reproduce the problem here by wiping to current the short bit of approach track, then trying to use F4 to lengthen the rails slightly.

cheers
Nigel
Attachment: attach_511_759_3mmtest.box 325

posted: 10 Mar 2009 10:33

from:

Martin Wynne
 
West Of The Severn - United Kingdom

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Nigel Brown wrote:
Thought the best thing was to send you the box file, herewith attached. I can reproduce the problem here by wiping to current the short bit of approach track, then trying to use F4 to lengthen the rails slightly.
Hi Nigel,

Thanks for uploading your file.

It's working correctly. F4 is changing the length of the template. Because the fixing peg is at the CTRL-0 end, it is the CTRL-1 end which is moving. The sleeper spacings and rail joints always originate from the CTRL-1 end (it's identified with a long mark across the rail ends), so they move also.

You have a sleeper showing beyond the rail end because it's been rolled in there. The way to change that after extending the rails with F4 is:

1. roll it further in under the rails (CTRL+F4), which also puts the rail joint back where you wanted it, or you could

2. omit it from the template using the shove timbers function, if you don't want to change the position of the rail joints.

This illustrates my point that rolling rails is a function to be used after you have set the length of each template on a finalised track plan. If you roll rails and then change the length of the template, you just have to do the rolling all over again. :(

However, all this was unnecessary. The way to get what you wanted was not to roll rails, but to swap the template ends so that the rails and sleepers originate from the existing rail joint on the turnout. Try:

1. cancel all rail rolling: real > plain track options > roll rails and sleepers by... menu item, and enter zero.

2. template > swap end-for-end menu item. This puts the CTRL-1 end at the turnout rail joint.

3. press CTRL-1 or click the peg indicator (top left) to put the fixing peg on the rail joint.

4. set the required template length with F4. Because it is now the CTRL-0 end which is moving, the rail joints and sleepers don't move.

Or If you simply extend some approach track (F3) on the turnout template and then split it off, Templot does all that for you (tools > make split > make separate approach track menu item). :)

regards,

Martin.

posted: 10 Mar 2009 13:17

from:

Nigel Brown
 
 

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Hi Martin

Thanks a lot, it'll now do what I would like it to do. What I hadn't appreciated was that sleeper spacings and rail joints always originate from the CNTRL-1 end, irrespective of where the fixing peg is.

cheers
Nigel



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